'95 Response slalom wake

[Hutch66]

Hello,

Newbie poster here!

I recently picked up a 1995 Malibu Response. 

After being away from skiing for about 20 years, I'm trying to get back into slaloming.   

From my first experiences skiing behind this boat, the wake size actually surprised me.  The size was larger than what I was expecting.  I only have approximately an hour of ski time (6 runs) and have tried different lengths.  So far I have felt comfortable at 32 mph & 22' off. But would like to be able to ski more aggressively.

Does anyone experience and insight related to adjusting wake size with a Response of this vintage? Any simple modifications of adjustments that can be made? 

Thanks

[Mastercrafter]

-22 is pretty bumpy behind any boat, new or old, especially at "slower speeds" like 32 mph. It's usually where the roostertail from the prop comes up. Often -15 will feel smoother. Or, go the other way: -28 or -32 usually gets you in front of the 22 bump. 34mph might help smooth it out. 

90% of my skiing is at -22 right now and it doesn't bother me; it just takes some adaptation. Keeping the ski on edge through the wakes helps too. Letting up because of the bump only makes it worse. 

 

[DW]

Congrats on getting a ski tug.  Short answer, yes:  get as much weight out of the transom as you can (or are willing to do).  Run the tank as low as possible on fuel, remove anything not attached forward, remove the rear seat, eliminate any extra 'stuff' you don't need, balance the boat side to side if needed (if you add weight, do it up front) and consider adding some weight in the bow (50# is a common add on these boats).

Also, give a shot at 28' off, wake gets better there and shorter.

[ETskier]

If it has a 3 blade prop, try a 4 blade.

[Skiphreak]

Agree w @ETskier . Have a four-blade prop on my Response and seems to be a tad smoother than one of my partners same Response w a three-blade. 

[Hutch66]

Thanks for the replies- yes it was a 3 blade.  I suspect its original or at least an old replacement; it's stainless and not Nibral material.   I haven't checked but I'm assuming it must be close to being a 13"x 13".  Seems like its the right pitch - 30 mph - 3000 rpm, 32 mph - 3200 rpm, 40 mph - 4000 rpm.

Skiphreak - do you recall make / model of your 4 blade.

Also - I'm trying to focus on getting the actual wake size smaller, maybe flatter is a better description.  Find the wake has more of a curl to it than what I was use to with my old boat.  I'm optimistic that with more time and weight adjustments, we should see some improvement.

[Skiphreak]

OJ 13’. Model number (I believe reads) 1018 but has having a tough time finding it through an internet search. 

[ALPJr]

You can always call OJ props directly and tell them what you want to do. They are very knowledgeable and helpful. 

[DW]

A stainless on a Malibu circa 95 is a CVP.  Prop hub will have CVP stamped on it and the dia. x pitch.  It could also have an M or MD after the numbers.

A typical replacement for it is an Acme 515.  That is a 3 blade CNC and is the OE prop for RLX, TXI.  

Your go to site for Malibu tech questions should be the Malibu Crew website.  There are a few slalom addicts still there and several Malibu knowledgeable contributors.

[ETskier]

When you talk to OJ or other experts, ask them about the  OJ Force.

Edited July 15, 2023 by ETskier
Spelling

[BraceMaker]

1 hour ago, ETskier said:

When you talk to OJ or other experts, ask them about the  OJ Force.

Force is their old school cast 4 blade.  Legend is their old school.cast 3 blade.

Their newer CNC products are the xmp edge wake pro and ski pro lines.

The force would be cheaper.

[03RLXi]

On 7/14/2023 at 12:10 AM, Hutch66 said:

 

From my first experiences skiing behind this boat, the wake size actually surprised me.  The size was larger than what I was expecting. 

What wake size you were expecting? What speed do you ski at? There's not much wrong with a Response wake, however all direct drives (all brands) surprise people who only ski occasionally, or are used to skiing behind lightweight small outboards, or ski less than 34mph. The wakes are refined to be a certain shape at 34/36mph and another bigger shape at trick ski speeds, plus there is a very solid tow that's not soft like most other boats. If you're at a lower speed the height and how 'solid' the wake feels can be a surprise compared to typical foamy roundabout boat. More info will help.      

[dave2ball]

The wakes on the response are great. The wake can be bigger if a full tank of gas, how many people plus gear was in the boat?  Additional weight will affect the wake but not enough consider it big. If you don’t keep your ski on edge crossing the wakes that also can make the wakes seem bigger then they really are. Have no clue what boat you skied with prior can’t do too much better. 

[6balls]

Go to 28 off and have fun.  22 is the worst line length for wake.  

[Taynton]

Im just gonna say it.... Its most likely your technique, not the wakes.  28 is better but nothing will fix a broken stack coming across the wakes.

A new prop is a great improvement in general performance but the difference in the wake is mostly cosmetic i.e it wont make the wake smaller, you could even get yours rebuilt by a good prop shop, there are a few wizards out there...

[Hutch66]

Thanks for the additional feedback guys

03RLXi - regarding speed, currently skiing now at 32mph.  Will try different speeds.

dave2ball - 1/4 tank or less of gas.  Driver & 2 spotters in the front passenger seat.  Still learning but found some runs with two passengers produced a better wake. 

 6balls - my next runs, will try 28' off.

I should also state again that I only have 6 runs behind this boat. Overall very happy with this new purchase and optimistic I will get more comfortable behind it. My goal is being able to open water slalom, not courses. 

Obviously its hard to state the height of the wake, its shape is definitely different than what I’ve skied with in the past .  Guessing the height may be 10”, but its a very solid shape, doesn’t really look like a wake with two distinctive curls.  Feels & looks like one wide beam if that makes sense???

My past boats were outboard J-Crafts.  These were almost flat bottom ski boats made in Ontario back in the 80’s.  Similar shape to California style v-drive drag boats.  For slalom skiing, they had a very small wake.  Actually two small curls approx 24” apart and 6” high – but very soft.

I see DW suggested weight upfront, 50lbs.  Anyone else have experience doing this? Even more than 50lbs?

Thanks for reading.

 

 

 

[ReallyGottaSki]

Maybe the foam is wet? a public scale then tare it with just the trailer may be insightful

as said, we really need some visuals of you behind it

22 off is where an inboard boat shows its max sadism , so your expectations and boat pain are on converging curves

that said, your boat should be made to work for you, not like you are trying to ski 22 off behind a Resorter or similar 

keeping you boat like as possible is clutch, as it can add up. extra gear, boards, boom, out. weight added should be strategically placed

Edited July 19, 2023 by ReallyGottaSki

[RAWSki]

Skied a 95 response for many years   nothing wrong with it at 34mph except the 22' Off pop --  I describe the Malibu wake as "firm"  its different than others but not bad.  Slower speeds do make the wake much larger and tougher.

We added weight under the bow and a 4 blade acme and it helped.

[03RLXi]

Your experience with lightweight outboards is why you're finding it so different. I had same when first skied behind direct drives. The outboard boars are so much lighter with soft wake humps or curls close together. I really like my 2003 Response LXi and a prior 2002 Response LX but it took some learning and confidence to edge right through the wakes. Once you're doing that you'll be fine and will love it.

I still sometimes ski behind outboards. Really like the Magnum 1850's that were built here in NZ. Sadly market too small and they're no longer made. Awesome ski boats, particualry for kids as the wake remains small when slow down.  https://autoinsiders.co.nz/autofair/sales-ad/9937/Magnum-1850-2001

[ALPJr]

Nice little boat.

[Andre]

9 hours ago, Hutch66 said:

My past boats were outboard J-Crafts.  These were almost flat bottom ski boats made in Ontario back in the 80’s.  Similar shape to California style v-drive drag boats.  For slalom skiing, they had a very small wake.  Actually two small curls approx 24” apart and 6” high – but very soft.

 

Still can get some J Craft! No wake on those things!

 

 

 

[6balls]

@03RLXi that's true I came up skiing buoys behind outboard barefoot boats.  I was thru 36 mph 28 off before I ever saw an inboard so never dealt with the inboard low speed 22 off bump.  at 28 off longer the wakes favored the outboard (but tracking did not).  At 28 and shorter it was all inboard.  

[03RLXi]

I'd become so familiar to outboard tiny wakes, soft pull and loose tracking that my first experiences of firm wake/troughs, solid pull and accurate tracking behind a direct drive were really quite frightening!!!! At 26 or 28mph the wake height was so much higher and caused a few launches 😉 As far as ownership goes I wouldn't go back now but I still do really enjoy some free skiing and teaching with outboards.       

[Hutch66]

Great feedback guys. THX. 

I like 03RLXi's description: "launches".  That's the feeling of what I'm experiencing with my inboard Response now. Feels like I'm literally launching across & over the wake.  

This will be learning experience that I'm looking forward to.

Will get it figured out and begin skiing to the level I'm hoping to reach.

Thanks!

[DW]

@Hutch66 - as an owner of a new to you DD ski tug, one powered from an automotive derived inboard, familiarize yourself with the key differences between the automotive and marine needs of the engine.  Spark suppression & fuel delivery components (alternator/starter/distributor/carb) are marine specific along with thermostat and engine water pump (corrosion).  Also, a bit of practice backing up, etc. will make you proficient in short order.

Have fun & enjoy!

[motoxr]

It's great that you provided the perspective that you are comparing the wake to your old J Craft. That wake was and is in a completely different zone. However, the Response still provides a fantastic wake for skiing the course or simply free skiing.

As others have said, avoid the 22 off sets.

Especially if you're just getting back into things, go with 15 off  to start and get your form back, most importantly staying on edge throughout the wake. Then, maybe skip to 28 off.

Enjoy, it's a great boat.

[VONMAN]

Like everyone said get as much weight out of the boat. Back seat, unnecessary gear out of the boat and anything else in the bow. Never over half tank of gas and if on a small lake run with a third. Ski with three people, skier spotter and driver max. Make sure the transom is level on plane. You may have to move the spotter from side to center to balance the wake. That's the boat, now the skier. At 15 and especially 22off you have to maintain a good solid load and angle to cut through the wake not pound into it and bounce over it. If you find yourself looking down at the wake try looking with your head up at the back of the boat or the pylon. After 22off things get better. Most older like yours boats keep getting better up to 38off and the new boats are good to 41off.

I know all about outboard wakes, my 92 Bare Foot Warrior wake is good15-35off. At 38off a trough/dip starts to appear but with a little bit of up trim on the motor (4 seconds on the up switch) it turns 38-41off butter smooth.

[Hutch66]

Just an update - positive feedback!

We were skiing yesterday and made 3 adjustments. 

Removed the back bench seat, added approx 45 lbs under the deck & shortened the tow line to 28' off.

Big difference - wake was smaller and felt softer. Much nicer to slalom behind now.

I really don't know if all 3 adjustments cumulatively produced the smaller wake.  I'm figuring going to 28' off and removing the back bench probably was the biggest impact. 

Can still add another 45lbs under the bow or even remove the original weight and see what this will result.

Big thanks to all your suggestions! 😀