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Thinking of purchasing a high hour 196 - thoughts and advice

chaloux

By chaloux
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chaloux Enthusiast

chaloux

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There is a 2007 196 local to me that is up for sale currently.  As far as I can find, it's one of the lowest price 196s around my area (as in within a day's drive).  There are of course a few caveats...

- high hours at approx 2000
- no trailer (pretty annoying, could figure it out though, and helps to defer some of the cost)
- 07 so no Zero Off, but I would convert ASAP (also helps keep initial purchase cost down if I chose to wait)

I have not yet seen the boat, but am hoping to soon.  The current owner can take a while to respond.  With a higher hour boat like this, what should I be looking for in my test ski/drive?  Pictures show it looks to be in fairly good shape.  The hours don't scare me - I have 190k km on my 2018 Silverado and it has approx 3300 engine hours on it, and all I've had to do is oil changes - I changed spark plugs but I really didn't need to as they looked to be in great shape.  I'd be happy to share the listing as long as you buggers let me take first crack at it lol

We picked up a pontoon boat this year which made my wife very happy, and I am now able to take a few of the "family" type duties off of my ski boat requirements.  No open bow needed, smaller is fine.  I know my knees and skiing will thank me. It's either that or I wait and save some more and pick up a 200 or Prostar. I was able to ski a 2019 SN and a 08 196 and a '23 Prostar back to back.  I would be happy with any of them, but this boat would get me out of my Sport Nautique the soonest. This would also benefit my 13 year old's skiing - he is getting a good leg workout at 30mph 15 off

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DW Grand Master

DW

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Leak down and compression test, careful check for any hull cracks, etc.  Demo run to make sure engine, trans work properly.  What does the lake water look like where boat was used, how corrosive does the water seem to be.  Good luck.

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sunperch Community Regular

sunperch

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The 98 Nautique that @6balls listed above is our boat.  I would be happy to answer any questions that you might have.  This boat has been wonderful.  We bought it as a promo in 2000.  We repowered the boat to have ZO installed.  Boat has been used in private ski lakes in Kansas.

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jhughes Mentor

jhughes

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I'd be worried about the interior condition with that many hours and at that age. More expensive than an engine potentially.

The trailer, additionally, is not a small point. Even trying to order and then receive a trailer is a complete PITA and they are surprisingly expensive. My replacement trailer for our 2000 at dealer cost was still $4500 plus transportation (another $1000) in 2016- and again you would think I was ordering a space shuttle for how much  of a hassle it was.

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Killer Proficient

Killer

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I think I know the boat you're talking about.  Id stay away.  Find something with a more stable history and lower hours.  No trailer is no bueno for me.  They need a proper ski nautique 196 trailer, good luck finding one locally and even if, cost is $$$$$

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chaloux Enthusiast

chaloux

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Thanks everyone.  The main thing is that this boat is 25k CDN!  Or about 18k USD.  Here's the listing: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1693488147763373/

I am for sure at least going to see it.  Looks like the vinyl has been redone at some point.  Gel coat looks faded (it was on my 94 Sport as well and came back wonderfully, I surprised the fiberglass people who said I'd need new gel coat).  I do understand the lack of trailer as a pretty big barrier, though.  Can be a major pain, but there is literally nothing else in this price range for 07-09.  But if I add another 6-8k on for a trailer then I'm in the 30+ range where options start to open up.  

So I've been specifically looking at 07+ for the ZO setup/ease of conversion if 07.  This is because the PP setup on my 94 Sport seems a little unstable or slow to react at 34/36mph.  32 is seems much better - perhaps this is just a characteristic of my boat/prop etc. but it's made me want to transition to ZO.  Yes I am on the latest StarGazer v.  But perhaps I'm focusing too much on the ZO setup and need to expand my search to include down to 99 so that I can get the hull first and spend a couple grand later to convert to ZO.  OR, again... I wait and save and pony up.  I am just impatient and want a new hull for the rest of the season, which I admit is quite short at this point.  Gah.

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DW Grand Master

DW

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@chaloux - you note ZO as a priority $2k to convert, have you done the homework to verify you can get from point A > ZO at that cost?  Browsing multiple threads (here) particularly from the expert converters @Jody_Seal, you might find a zero missing in your estimate depending on the ECU in the boat.

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chaloux Enthusiast

chaloux

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19 minutes ago, DW said:

@chaloux - you note ZO as a priority $2k to convert, have you done the homework to verify you can get from point A > ZO at that cost?  Browsing multiple threads (here) particularly from the expert converters @Jody_Seal, you might find a zero missing in your estimate depending on the ECU in the boat.

Only for the 07. Older boats is significantly more, double and then some. I would do it myself. 

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markn Proficient

markn

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 With the original series 40 tranny having seen 2000 hours, it won't be long until you would need a new series 80.  By the time you toss in a 6.0 liter, series 80 tranny, trailer and ZO to the $18k purchase price, you would be looking at an additional $20k plus.  That said, over time, I have replaced the engine and tranny in my 2004 ZO  Rev S converted Limited 196. (owned since 2005)  I have found that to be a very cost effective alternative to buying a new boat.  Not sure I would make the same argument if buying a 2000 hour boat now and making the same improvements.  @6ballsboat finds may be  better alternatives.

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Jody_Seal Grand Master

Jody_Seal

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59 minutes ago, dave2ball said:

@chaloux if you are planning to put ZO retrofit an 07 with 2000 hrs on the motor and transmission your best course of action would be to put a new motor and trans into the boat along with ZO. @Jody_Seal would be the man for that job.  

i have a 750 hour 5.3/80 123 on ski it again now. would make a great repower in a bubble butt or pre 06 196.

A new 6.0 bob tail non cat is in the $12k range now as well as a 80 transmission  123:1 pushing $4k

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Killer Proficient

Killer

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2 hours ago, chaloux said:

Thanks everyone.  The main thing is that this boat is 25k CDN!  Or about 18k USD.  Here's the listing: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1693488147763373/

I am for sure at least going to see it.  Looks like the vinyl has been redone at some point.  Gel coat looks faded (it was on my 94 Sport as well and came back wonderfully, I surprised the fiberglass people who said I'd need new gel coat).  I do understand the lack of trailer as a pretty big barrier, though.  Can be a major pain, but there is literally nothing else in this price range for 07-09.  But if I add another 6-8k on for a trailer then I'm in the 30+ range where options start to open up.  

So I've been specifically looking at 07+ for the ZO setup/ease of conversion if 07.  This is because the PP setup on my 94 Sport seems a little unstable or slow to react at 34/36mph.  32 is seems much better - perhaps this is just a characteristic of my boat/prop etc. but it's made me want to transition to ZO.  Yes I am on the latest StarGazer v.  But perhaps I'm focusing too much on the ZO setup and need to expand my search to include down to 99 so that I can get the hull first and spend a couple grand later to convert to ZO.  OR, again... I wait and save and pony up.  I am just impatient and want a new hull for the rest of the season, which I admit is quite short at this point.  Gah.

I ski tournaments and own a 01 196 with zbox and get into 11m at 55k.  I have little issues skiing different boats.  

My buddy has a 96 sn with stargazer in our lake and it's a nice boat but night and day from my 01.

Zbox is good enough for 99% of skiers, especially if you don't ski tournaments.

There are lots of boats for sale all the time.  I see this one as a headache. JMO

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chaloux Enthusiast

chaloux

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I really appreciate all the replies - it definitely helps bring me back to reality a little bit. A transmission replacement was not something I had considered.  I'll just keep putting my pennies away and purchase something in the spring I guess. Any large-ish purchase I've made in a rush I've regretted, so I guess I'll keep waiting lol

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VermontSkier Enthusiast

VermontSkier

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Not sure where you are located but are some VERY well priced 97 and new ski nautiques for sale in New England and New York State if you are willing to drive. 

1997 for $12,000

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/2429492920565211/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A7e184139-51c5-4e96-a91f-c0985b394770

2000 for $10,000

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/999273191394013/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A7e184139-51c5-4e96-a91f-c0985b394770

And then the one I really want but can't afford right now... a 2012 200 for $42k

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1777284902727135/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A7e184139-51c5-4e96-a91f-c0985b394770

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ETskier Community Regular

ETskier

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I bought a 2006 in 2014 for the same money (with trailer). ZO conversion was already done. Put 500 more hours, and put new engine for 6K and still came out even when I sold it.  I think in 07 you don't have to change the ECM to convert to ZO. Savings there. Also, that boat has the analog guage system, as opposed to gateway, which is great.  Pics look pretty good. Taken care of, an engine can give you plenty more hours, I think somebody on here got 4K hrs. Just do your due diligence as suggested here by others.

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chaloux Enthusiast

chaloux

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31 minutes ago, ETskier said:

I bought a 2006 in 2014 for the same money (with trailer). ZO conversion was already done. Put 500 more hours, and put new engine for 6K and still came out even when I sold it.  I think in 07 you don't have to change the ECM to convert to ZO. Savings there. Also, that boat has the analog guage system, as opposed to gateway, which is great.  Pics look pretty good. Taken care of, an engine can give you plenty more hours, I think somebody on here got 4K hrs. Just do your due diligence as suggested here by others.

Correct, afaik the 07 is no ECM change. Despite potentially needing a new trans in the future I definitely want to look at the boat. Gives me a reference point at the very least. 

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buechsr Community Regular

buechsr

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I’ll soon be listing my 2008 196.  230 hours on new 5.7 (w/ new manifolds).  1230 on hull.  Prior engine expired due to previous (original) owner’s overheat.  2 owner boat.  Zero off Rev S.  I can almost guarantee that it is the most outstanding gel on a 15-year-old boat in the country. Previous owner used a touchless cover, and I have always used a waterline cover from Skip Dunlap. Interior is a 7.5-8/10.  Needle gauges.  Brand new boat mate trailer (less than a year old), which was $8,000.  

Will post link once I snap some pics.  Interest in meantime, PM me.  Black main, blue accent.  Beautiful boat.  Selling to move into a new SN.

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dave2ball Mentor

dave2ball

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@chaloux a 200 is still a current  design and is very popular. Great skiing boat.  
being 2K cheaper will allow you to repower if you choose too and it would be cheaper because it already has ZO. With a new motor and transmission if need be will give you a great boat with good wakes. Maybe a better way to go.   
 

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jpwhit Rising Star

jpwhit

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Personally, I think we're at a time now where it's getting pretty hard to justify converting a boat to ZO. There are enough older ZO boats available now in a price range that it just makes more sense to buy an older ZO boat that needs some TLC. Otherwise the numbers just don't work out very well in most cases IMO. Especially when you factor in how soft the used boat market is at the moment and will likely to just continue to get softer in the near term. 

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Killer Proficient

Killer

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23 hours ago, chaloux said:

Ok so how does a higher hour 200 factor into all this?  This just listed 2011 200 is actually a couple grand cheaper than the 2009 listed above, albeit with about 10x the hours. 

https://www.ski-it-again.com/php/skiitagain.php?endless=summer&topic=Search&category=Boat_3Event&postid=68535

A transmission swap will be a few k.  Although with any used boat you never know.

The yellow 200 is the Ottawa Waterski clubs boat.  Solid folks.

 

 

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