escmanaze

I'm going to disagree with @Canuckskier and my whole extended family is proof. We've tried it all and yet we remain, overall and overwhelmingly, a skiing family. From my 74 year old Dad down to my 10 year old son. That's a crazy talk defeatist attitude to just automatically assume your kids won't be skiers for long. Aside from my son and my Dad having their PB videos below, I've had 3 nephews aged 18-22 that have also set personal bests this summer behind my open bow, tiny wake, 22 year old ski boat. Everybody from old to young in my family is loving the classic, the original, waterskiing. https://www.instagram.com/p/B0eM_t1gE6f-t6lmbwI3QOcthKZOzg4kScz86w0/ I can just as easily argue that for @Canuckskier his family doesn't like skiing BECAUSE he chose to buy a v-drive. So was he smart to look in the crystal ball? Or was it a self-fulfilling prophecy? I suppose only he can answer that, but as for me, I'm not going to take my chances. I'll stick with giving my kids the best waterski experience I can afford and if then they still don't like it - well, at least I emptied my clip trying.

Here is a recent thread I started. /forum#/discussion/21965/my-son-got-up-on-1-ski I'm convinced right now that the Freeride is THE best ski for people to learn on. I think I'm also somewhat convinced that folks might fairly quickly graduate from it if/as they start skiing more aggressively, which may or may not apply to your wife. She may be perfectly happy forever with exactly the level of skiing that the freeride was made for.

Sounds like you may have fallen victim to not reading my position paper. Oh, that's right, it didn't exist until just a short time ago. Well, you might be a great case study on the reason I wrote it. Check it out and let me know what you think. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-NiENHZt0sC7WDBaeVk6QK9OJzQ4-DYISGE1h_PPjPI/edit On the binding, though, you have me completely baffled. I can't even fathom anybody liking old school rubber better than these nice comfy lace up bindings offered today. Wild. I literally have absolutely no explanation for that at all. It would be crazy interesting for me to do like a focus group with folks who still prefer rubber to try to figure out what in the world it is that they are liking.

I'm going to mostly disagree - especially with the subject title, a little less with your exact description in the text. Obviously the highest level of skiing is done in a course by the highest level of skiers. Nevertheless, I've seen quite a few folks who can get to a pretty darn high level even with "just freeskiing". So certainly it seems borderline silly to say the buoys are "necessary to improve your skiing" as an overall general rule.

@6balls Thanks for the additional info. Yeah, if he's quickly leaving 28 mph and soon to be at 30 and 32 and beyond. Also, young kid, good skier, probably pretty light, all these factors play in. Good call.

Does your uncle weight quite a big more than you? Is the Vapor a couple sizes too big? If not, then based on my past experience, I would suggest that probably you are really not doing yourself any favors by running that vapor. Even if it is a couple sizes too big, it is still probably not the most optimized ski for where you are. I've been pretty close to your shoes before and found the extra width of a Senate to be very helpful. Even a Union might be even more helpful if your progress was about to be slow (but I don't think it will be, a young kid like you will probably progress fast. My thought with the wings in your case is actually that you just reduce the angle to kind of a minimum type of setting and that gets you a lot of the effect you desire in taking it off without adding any possible negative effects of actually taking it off. That's what makes sense to me in my mind, but there are definitely some dudes on here that are more than allowed to override me and tell me I'm dead wrong. @SkiJay would probably be at the very top of that list.

I love it. I'm not good enough to give you advice. To me it seems like you need some more pre-turn, but only do that if somebody better than me says so. Welcome to the sport. Glad to see you here.

What makes a good ski boat? Small wakes Soft wakes Less Spray Better Tracking Smooth and consistent speeds / times How much you care about each of these depends on you and also on your level of skiing and on the level of the driver you have access to. A wakeboard boat will be very bad at pretty much all of these items. Don't even consider it. The oldest/cheapest boat I would personally even entertain would be the 91-94 MC prostar 190. No wood. Great wakes. Small soft wakes. At your level, you don't care that it had pretty big spray. Also at your level, especially if you have access to a pretty good driver, you don't care that it doesn't have as good of tracking as newer boats. You slap perfect pass on it and you are a really happy camper. The next oldest boat to consider would be the TSC1 hull nautiques starting in 97. No wood, small soft wakes, even the spray isn't bad. Pretty good tracking and PP speed control is again, good enough at your level of skiing. The next oldest would be a malibu response with the diamond hull and no wood, somebody will have to help me know what year that starts on. Boats created after those 3, don't really do any better at the 2 things you probably care most about at your level, which is a small and soft wake. The next 20 years were spent largely in a pursuit of reducing spray, better tracking, and bigger boats overall, and then the switch to ZO speed controls. All of these are things that matter a lot to some people, but I would doubt that they will matter all that much to you right now. If you're getting into 38 or even 35 off and you are skiing tournaments, then ZO really matters, less spray really matters, better tracking probably even matters even if you do have a really good driver just because you are cranking on the thing so darn hard. Shoot, apparently if you're into 38 off, then you think the new microtuners are awesome as well. For your purposes, I think you're mostly interested in a small soft wake at your slower speeds an longer line lengths. For that, the 20 year old boats mentioned above can pretty much do just as well as the new boats.

I'm also curious to hear why folks think the 03-06 is so much better than other years. I think you meant to write 340 and not 240...right? If I go back to your original post, I think the Response LXi is still your best choice. Until the 200 was created in 2010, the LXi had the absolute best wake of any boat ever that also had a walk-through open bow. Can anybody even argue that? At least among the big 3, it doesn't seem like that's even disputable. Maybe I'm just forgetting about some other boat? So...my opinion is that you would absolutely love a Response LXi. When skiing behind it, you would love it more than many of the bigger boats that have been discussed here so far.

Hi Everybody, I just upgraded to version 9. Hoping to get out in 2 days to start to test it all out. I now have access to this simple mode and would love to learn as much about it as possible. It seems intriguing.

I'm currently in option 4. I just upgraded to version 9 and I'm hoping to get up to 3 or even 2. However, I think part of me has given up on #1 being anything but fantasy. I'm developing a theory that zbox is probably primarily for the PP boats that are DBW. My theory says that mechanical throttle just simply doesn't have the possibility to control tight or aggressively enough to make any inputs from a zbox worthwhile at all. It just simply can't get precise enough. So I figured I would put up a poll to see if a bunch of people tell me I'm full of it, or if the poll results might support the current postulate.

Oh wow. yeah, most 63" skis will not support 115 pounds very well as you drop down to 24 and 26 mph.

What's he on right now? You're in a great position where he is still growing. You can get him something big enough that it will allow him to slow down a lot as mentioned above while he is still 115 pounds. Later, as he gains more weight, and starts going faster, the ski will still be the right size. If he's already on a ski that can still support the slower speeds, then who says he needs a new ski at all? Just slow down and he will start nailing the 24 and/or 26 mph passes.

If you're planning on using radar bindings, that would be the final weight in one direction that would make me just use a radar ski instead of going with HO where you will need adapter plates etc.

@xraydoc Look at that little girl go!!!! So awesome. As I understand it, a TRA is essentially kind of a mini-senate, so if she's already on that, you can probably go a long time before upgrading her to anything different. For her weight, that's already a pretty big ski, so I would hesitate before you start skiing her too fast on that thing. As far as rope length goes - again, with freeskiing, it's all personal preference anyway, so just let her try some other lengths if she wants or if she's happy, just let her keep skiing. As she gets bigger and heavier, eventually she will have to go faster just to keep that ski on top of the water, but likely, that progression will just happen naturally and organically as she will also simultaneously be getting better and wanting to go faster for that reason. Funny enough, I actually pretty much agree with @Chef23 as he disagrees with me. RIGHT NOW that Katana is totally fine, and probably even better than fine; optimal. I love this video of Horton really rallying a Katana. 35 off at 30 mph sets a pretty darn high ceiling for that ski. Nevertheless, the point still stands, that there will come a certain day and a certain level of skiing where a union will suit you better. And then there will come a day beyond that where a senate will suit you better if you keep progressing, and potentially a day beyond that when a vapor might fit you best if you really get hardcore.

If you're looking to get better at freeskiing then the direction to head will be toward a skinnier ski, and with a little more speed, and probably with a little shorter rope. You might even just shorten the rope right away as many folk who are in a position that they should know advise that skiing with 75 foot rope is really just learning bad habits. If I were in your shoes, I would shorten the rope immediately to 15 off and get a little feel for it to make sure I like it. Then I would speed the boat up to 26 or 28 and again get used to it and make sure you like it, then once you're at 26 or 28, you could switch skis just one step up the radar line to try out their union. From there you can just play with different rope lengths to see what you like and don't like. If you're at 28 mph, you may very well find a very friendly small wake right around 28 or 32 off. Then if you keep getting better and better you can keep progressing up in speeds and skinnier in skis (to a senate and then a vapor). At each speed, you can just play with rope lengths to find where you hit the softest wake freeskiing and/or what length gives you the feel that you like the most out on the turns. From there, if you ever do try a course, you'll have to take a few steps backwards in all of these steps as you first get into it. You'll have to go back to your fatter skis and your longer lines and your slower speeds just to be able to make it through. As you improve though, you will then work your way up the exact same chain of skinnier skis, faster speeds, and shorter ropes. As for your daughter, if she's 9 and already skiing like you in the video above, that's awesome!!! You have a future ripper on your hands!! What ski is she on? Got video? Here is my 10 year old son that just started slaloming a few weeks ago so I still have him down at 18 mph in the course or 20 mph when freeskiing. He's on a 63" freeride, but as he gets better and better, the progression will be just the same as mentioned above. Faster speeds, skinnier skis, and shorter ropes. It's important that the speeds and the ski widths coincide roughly. When freeskiing, the rope length doesn't matter as much if it matches. It just matters if you like it.

No problem man. Skiers that, I think, are exactly like you are the reason I wrote it. I say "I think" because I still haven't seen video of you. It's priceless. Get some video and post it and that will definitely help you to not make the mistake you are scared of. If you ski with somebody better than you that you are trying to emulate, post the video of them as well so we can see not only where you are, but where your goals are. If you're on a senate, I doubt the vapor will feel bad. That's part of the beautiful part of the way radar does things is that as you move up or down the line, things still feel really familiar. During the times when I was going back and forth between my 2012 69" senate and my 2013 68" vice-c, it was a super seamless easy smooth transition back and forth every time. Then when I switched from those two skis to a 2018 67" senate, it was again an easy smooth seamless transition. Obviously the best way to go if possible to to demo one somehow. Then you really can't miss.

I believe Arizona doesn't make you pay sales tax on used private party items. Not sure though, I just seem to remember hearing my brother say something like that.

Another candidate for my recent position paper!!! Man, I knew I wrote that thing for a reason. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-NiENHZt0sC7WDBaeVk6QK9OJzQ4-DYISGE1h_PPjPI/edit?usp=sharing I'm all in on you going from a senate to a vapor if your #1 goal in life is to have turns like the pros. I remember having a KD6500 for 15 years before going to a senate. My first thought when I got onto the Senate was "Dang, this thing doesn't wanna turn!!" I grew to love that Senate and I'm still on one to this very day, but that's largely because I'm in the course now and I prioritize different things than freeskiers do. If I had never gotten into the course and remained freeskiing exclusively, I definitely would have preferred my vice-c to both of my senates.

I've not skied on a ton of skis, but the time I rode the HO CX superlite it felt too fast. Is that possible? Too fast? Probably not the fastest ski of all time. Just the fastest ski that I've ever been on.

Also, give your buddy this video.

A couple years ago I wrote an email to my nephew named Bryce who was just starting to get aggressive about his skiing and told me that the problem was the darn slack in the rope. I wrote an email to him about it after watching him ski. I just copied and pasted the text of the email into a google doc here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CYIOkrcebn8AaD2XFO7aaeH9fvaswMEQOF7anul-dL8/edit?usp=sharing Aside from this, there does also seem to be something going on funny right in the heart of your turn, but I bet it's likely that you're suddenly acting funny because you know the hammer you're about to get hit with of a slack rope. Reducing the slack problems would probably fix whatever that problem is to a great extent.

If you think he's going to be getting right back into being a "fantastic freeskier" then you might consider getting him a vapor. However, if he's going to be trying to learn a course, then the vapor would not be the right choice. I wrote a position paper this weekend that might very well apply to him. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-NiENHZt0sC7WDBaeVk6QK9OJzQ4-DYISGE1h_PPjPI/edit?usp=sharing For now, just throw him on your ski or on his old ski and get some video of freeskiing and/or in the course. With video, the recommendations here will be of much higher quality.

@Yeaitsslo Have you ever wakeboarded before? If so, start pretending your ski is a wakeboard. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's lots of people were getting up on wakeboards for the first time. Some had significant experience in slalom skiing, some had little to no experience getting up on a slalom ski. Hands down, those who didn't bring bad slalom ski habits and trains of thought with them to the wakeboarding world had a MUCH easier time getting up on a wakeboard. Those who brought years of slalom experience, especially behind older slower boats were accustomed to dragging their ski through the water in front of them for a few seconds before even beginning to think about standing up at all. So they just assumed the same would be necessary with a wakeboard. It is not. In fact, acting like you have to do that is the kiss of death on a wakeboard. You will work yourself to death trying to plow that thing through the water and and you'll completely lose control of it trying to plow it through when you approach it with the concept that you have to plow a while before standing up. Those who came with little to no experience had no problem with my very basic level of coaching "just stand up". Don't fight it, don't plow, don't drag. Just stand right up as soon as the boat starts going. The newbies would actually do it, and they would be off to the races having fun. Unlike the folks who stayed in a slalom state of mind who insisted on fighting this big huge, tons of surface area board while they stayed deep in the water as long as they could. So my advice to you as you seem to be moving from an old skinny slalom ski now to a big fat wakeboard-like type of ski? Same thing. Just stand up. Get out of your old slalom drag, plow, tug of war mentality. Get in to the new easy mentality. Just stand up. As fast as you have the strength to do it. Pretend it's really easy, cause on these new big fat skis...it is. And you have to get up the easy way. These new big fat skis won't allow you to get up using all your old habits of fight & drag and plow. There's just way too much surface area for you to play that game.

So here is the most recent and personal datapoint. My 10 year old kid is a total beginner but he still wants to chase buoys like Dad. 18 mph on a HO Freeride works out very well. Maybe the only ski better for him right now would be a Hovercraft so I could slow him down to 15.5 mph and let him chase the orange balls.