Deep11

I like your second pass better, lots of good stuff. Your gate issue to me is a lack of acceleration - from turn in you are being pulled all the way. If your gate load point was to look like the exit of your 2,4 it is likely you will find things coming together better. In answer to your question all you need to know about body position - straight arms etc is here :

Hi @epnault - totally understand your frustration - coming back from a fractured ankle had humbled me even more to how challenging (and rewarding ) this sport can be. I agree with you that the wake position will make a big difference - if only to allow more time to work on the turn. For me the "sweet spot" you refer to is when you can load the line ( just outside the first white water) and are in an "indestructible position" into the wakes - meaning you "choose" to load rather than the line going tight and getting pulled. The "feel" is that you are being "whipped " through the wakes like the recoil on a rubber band. This allows you to ski - without effort - out to the bouy line and have time to consider the turn. Right now the boat is pulling you everywhere - the only time you are actually free of the pulll is when you are going too fast into the bouy (early to 1 but heading straight at it) resulting in slack line and having to bend over just to hold it and keep skiing - after that it's all fire fighting. Even at the gate if you look you never get free of the boat - you get pulled all the way to you max width - which is why it's not wide enough. On the pull out you can, and should experience the same "whip" by early acceleration, come up slowly into the front and glide free of the boat. Then its all about timing to turn. You do by the way come ono the front foot at the glide really well, which can be really hard to learn. So how to reset and find / experience the sweet spot? It's been said here a lot before but that's a big looking lake so free ski is the answer. Look for seths YouTube video on "whips" and just do it. This way you can elminate the turns and really work on what it takes to load into the wakes and get whipped across. When you get it right you should only feel the load into the first wake - the amount of energy you put in will determine how wide you get on the other side. Really don't worry about the turns - initially there will be a whole lot of gliding after each whip while you slow down enough to turn, That's natural and just shows that your next step will be your stack, shoulder and hip position off the second wake. Definitely worth taking and posting video of this as even if it feels wrong there will be good bits that need reinforcing. Free skiing is also fun and a great work out :)

I think you are doing really well given that - the boat looks to be going a bit too fast for you to be able to work on much, it's really bumpy and that's a big wake to get over. To work on attacking the wake you need to try and reduce the variables a bit. I wouldn't be disappointed with what you are doing. Most of the guys on here have the luxury of flat water, gps speed control and small wakes - makes a massive difference.

I have absolutely no idea - will ask around :)

Live from Thorpe at the height of the British summer ! Starts 3pm gmt - somewhat earlier for you folk on the west of the pond. https://youtu.be/KhYEfTG3SPA

Thanks @horton - that's actually really helpful - move everything down about 6 bouys and that's where I am at present . Gong to get back on the 6.0 and work on owning 32 again. Thanks !

Hi @horton - I am curious about what a "slump" for you looks like? I am just coming back from a fractured ankle and whilst my leg is working my skill level seems to have taken a dive and I'm getting frustrated refindng those things that are essential to consistency. I seem to have lost about a pass and a half. When you hit a slump do you lose as much and what do you do to get out of it?

Loading through and off second wake = loss of handle control (and direction)

Wish I could approach the onside turn like this - so much good stuff happening - who is she?

Most important part of that explanation seems to be : "and then by the time my ski is approaching the first trough my load is decreasing"

Realize that this thread is running its course but also that @6balls is sitting with leg up frustrated. As you know I am rehabbing from # fibula - it was my back foot that stayed in (double stradas). Like you I have investigated all the release systems to see if any would prevent not just what happened to me but other "weird" falls. My opinion is that there isn't a system that will cover everything. Perhaps ( once you have decided on a good system) it really is a case of looking at it like falling off a horse - it's a chance you take for doing the sport - sure its small risk and for us it seems to be predominantly lower leg -so much more potential for injury when falling off a horse. Right now my mental game is to look at it just like that and try not to dwel on it. For arguments sake - my preferred release would be an "all in" "release together" system that somehow also protects the Achilles - which the current "one out" systems seem to do better. i also never want to hear the word "prerelease" applied to it. Never going to happen i fear so im going into a new set of vapors - mental game on :)

Apologies for yet another binding thread but since fracturing my fibula I'm considering my options before just "getting back on the horse". What I have found is that rear strada/vapor does not release in a twisting fall when front foot out. Even with loose bungee. Clearly an unusual situation but focused the mind a little if planning to get back on the water. Considering MOb from to maintain my vapor and RTP rear for guaranteed release - anyone see a problem with this? OB1 have you had any issues with your MOb setup? Many thanks

Thanks @adamcord I really like free skiing but haven't heard of that approach with the hardest line and then shortening - looking forward to giving it a try.

Thanks guys, "Handle control " article is always a good read - in this case particularly points 3&4 on body position. @wish The GUT approach of "space and width" is where I am working. How to achieve Your point of "letting the ski slow" to the correct speed for the turn is what im getting at. "Pushing the inside hip forward or the sideways crunch " I have tried and had some success with. What do you feel about staying tall before the turn, keeping the upper body as upright as possible and the shoulders level whilst if possible,forcing the the direction towards shore with knees and hips? In effect trying to leave the ski behind as far as possible during the arm extension, but not letting the COM fall in to the bouy. What I imagine in my minds eye is that the inside hip follows the handle down the bouy line during the extension while the ski continues its outbound path, but only in so much as I can keep shoulders level. I reckon this could also be seen as countering but with a much stronger core and more specific aim in mind than just throwing your outside shoulder back ? What I see a lot of in skiers just starting out in the course is a tendency to turn the bouy by leaning over into it as soon as they edge change, gets them through long line but I can't help but think it develops a habit that's really hard to break as they progress and want to shorten (once they get the stack sorted ). Should we be coaching beginners to initiate the turn with the lower half of the body and front of the ski as soon as possible before bad habits develop?

Hi @Razorross3 Totally agree with the arm connection (whichever you prefer :)). My question is really after that. We've all had good connection off the wake and got out to width only to run into slack on the back of the turn. It really is "How do you keep going out to maintain a tight line?" it's surprising how much this comes up when I'm in conversation with various coaches - could just be my skiing of course :)

Turning at short line is a different beast I feel than long line - at long line you can effectively carve a wide radius turn. At short line (32 and below) however this does not seem to be the way - every coach I've ever met says that your goal is to keep to going out and then get back in as fast as possible. Whilst no one is advocating a "slam" turn this seems to be all about maintaining a "tight line". (Smear / weight forward etc etc all still apply obviously). My question is how do the "great and the good" do this. The only way Freddie and Whitney for example can stack those massive turns is maintaining speed and keeping their COM moving outbound. (keeping a tight line all the way out .) Interestingly it looks like the dynamics of the ski in the water mean that as they force everything outbound the ski is actually on the turning edge and rotating towards their intended direction of travel. They just don't engage that direction until the apex. At which point the boat has moved far enough down the lake to maintain a tight line. The one that seems to buck the idea of course is Nat - he regularly approaches the bouy with a loose line, suggesting he could get wider? I know that some will be thinking it's the back arm connection off the second wake - which is clearly a factor (if that works for you - I'm more a trailing arm pressure guy - but really don't think anyone wants to get into that again!), it's when you release the outside arm I'm interested in. Has anyone tried different things and achieved different results? Seems to me that if you keep everything going out until the last then a pretty good turn can be had whether you are perfectly balanced (for / aft) or not. Conversely you can be well balanced on the ski carve a turn and run into slack / or simply fall over. Of course the second part to this would be - once out, how do you initiate getting back in fast without just falling over or pulling on the line? Is it fair to say that leaning into the turn (any turn) is bad thing ? Apologies for the rambling nature of this, just trying to get it clear in my head. (And pass the time whilst my broken leg heals). Kevin

@sunvalleylaw interesting idea of working on the end of the turn. I have tried this and I'm not sure that it is actually possible as you would like it to be - too much needs to happen before you get there. If you really want to work on the finish of the turn you need to decide what that should look like for you and then remove as many variables as possible, For me the end of the turn is about 4-6ft before the white water - at this point I want to be balanced in the middle of the ski, as tall as possible with my upper body as high up off the water as possible. I will have already collected the handle and the line will be tight , power triangle engaged, ready to accelerate. - please be assured that this very rarely happens but it is what I am aiming for. To know when you have got it right you need to be able to "feel" what it's like to get right - at least once :) I would recommend that you get away from the course and free ski - look at seths "whips" the point at which he accelerates is the end of the turn. CP s video is great and I had the pleasure of skiing with him and "Arnold" last month. It was windy so i took a free-ski set, with CP coaching, working on just this. Really "feeling" the balance into and through the turn. If you find free skiing challenging then all the more reason, probably means you are skiing point to point rather than "feeling" the rhythm with the boat and your position on the ski. There is absolutely no reason to take "hits" freeskiing. Hope it works for you :)

Thats really interesting @skijay - after reading your book I moved my bindings as far apart as possible. The reason was that you talked about "feeling" the balance point of the ski in the approach to the turn in order to understand the changes that you make to set up. I have never knowingly been able to feel where my weight is on the ski (just always trying to "get forward " like everyone else). Spacing the bindings and dropping the speed slightly allowed me to achieve the "feel". Very useful indeed and my video footage shows that i am much further forward in my approach (off and onside) - even with the bindings as far as part as they are (max on the radar sequence plate). I guess now i've achieved this I should push them back together and try and benefit from what you say should be a more stable position?

I skied the S2 for a season and tried an A3 - went straight up to my PB first set - so no crazy differences. Think you'll find that 67.5 S2 is the size recommended for your weight whilst 67 A3 is on the edge = S2

Presumably how you have your ski set up will also have a bearing - if its set more to slide at the end of the turn then getting more angle earlier may be good as it would effectively allow you to get "set" in your stack position earlier. Clearly this is an "extreme" there are videos of Jeff Rogers and Regina out there showing the other extreme where the ski points at the boat at the end of the turn only to be on the correct trajectory a microsecond later. Both look like they require fairly major correction strength. Another question might be - given we are none of us perfect - if you were going got err in favor of one extreme - which way should it be?

Thanks guys - because I video every set here is the video of the fall - looks pretty lame. Clearly shouldn't have tried to hold it, but taken loads of worse falls without incident. (And some just like this). Reckon what happened was - Front foot got ripped out when the tip went in off second wake then the ski rotated and "snap" - ski was still on back foot when i surfaced. Note: advantage of skiing in Scotland = no pain ( too cold), just annoyed with myself. Hope rehab is as quick as @6balls suggesting. Big boot today and consult with orthopedic surgeon tomorrow https://www.dropbox.com/s/nyei4zna3msuqhs/fractured%20ankle%202017.mp4?dl=0 @Horton - the wee chain link thingy in your "how to avoid long links" tutorial doesn't seem to exist on my iPad, Also there is no box to start a new thread either but that's a different issue :)

Day one of our ski season yesterday Set two Pass three OTF and fractured fibula

If super chicken wasn't on an MC for Latrobe she is now - according to MC

https://instagram.com/p/BRQs_0YgPgO/

Looks like info might have been rushed? Freddie just posted he got second = 1.nate 2. Freddie 3. Sledge.