Deep11

Loads of advice already - I actually like a lot of what you are doing - at 30mph in rough water maintaining a strong position through the wake is tough and you do a good job in both directions (which is quite rare). Keeping working on it and handle / hips etc will get closer as the conditions get better and the speed goes up. Re: your actual post - the offside turn is killing you - I agree. Right now it is because you are trying to turn before the ski is ready - effectively a matter of timing being out (pulling too long) and then working with what you have to keep going (falling to the back etc). Before you can fix it for linked turns you need to experience what it should feel like. Try this: When you are coming off the wake to your "bad side" (2,4) DONT try and turn (currently you throw yourself to the inside which is wrong - looks like what the pros do but it's not) Instead let the boat pull you up tall on to the front foot. You will glide way past where you want to turn (which demonstrates the problem). When free of the boat and gliding on the front foot, bring both hands up in front and drop the outside hand. Staying on the front foot when the ski is ready to turn then go with it. Then it's just a matter of only putting enough power into your onside lean to get to you the point you want to turn. So - stand tall on front foot, arms forward, drop outside arm, when the ski goes you go. Slack line and you went to early or fell on you back foot. Note: I would also suggest this for your onside too as it promotes good timing and body position.

Hi @gsm_peter that sounds like a really unpleasant way to spend your leisure time! Video is needed as there has to be a biomechanical issue - if you get it right you should feel "indestructible" at the wake ie "bigger wake more speed - not a problem " you are trying to achieve a point where you don't even have to register the wake as an obstacle but rather a reference point for timing. I would suspect from your description that when you hit the wake your hips go back more and your arms come up higher breaking you at the waist and moving your COM too far forward = otf I know I will get shot down here but I find that once connected "with com balanced / over front foot" keeping my shoulders "open to the boat" helps tremendously. Breaking at the hips when you hit the wake is much harder to do when your shoulders are facing the boat (even if your arms are up/out).

@Higleyskier what production number were you?

@lcgordon "better form" will achieve more "controlled" height on the boat. Position on the ski / handle connection / and "how" and in "what" direction you lean are the "form" you are seeking. All this happens before you swing out. It is really worthwhile achieving an a,b,c approach to setting yourself up rather than trying to "pull harder". It is difficult to understand until you feel it but "pulling harder" won't swing you higher on the boat (no matter how early you start) The "harder " bit is "resistance" or "drag" and that's what ultimately stops you swinging as high up on the boat as you would like.

@ToddL has explained it really well. The "when" only really becomes a factor if you have the "how" down ( which I think is what @wish is sayin)

Sucks - done it three time - 6 weeks

Another way of looking at the "stay tall" idea is that if you look at your video whenever any load is experienced (pull out or through the wakes ) you collapse (shoulders forward / butt back ). To do what has been suggested you need to disconnect the upper and lower body. Meaning : when ANY load comes, your spine stays straight, your butt stays in and all the "flex" comes from knees and ankles (at this point what you do with arms doesn't matter ) To be clear when you watch your video the very first chnage to see is that your spine is tall (shoulders above hips) and at all load points (incl wakes) your spine doesn't look any different than if skiing behind the boat. Now at 15off that probably means the ski kicks through the wakes or you miss the bouys - don't worry - the absolute starting point is a strong skiing position and the starting point for that is your upper body being strong. Once you can see that being fixed and its automatic = next step :)

Great wakeye now has 60, 120 & 240 fps with latest update - will try it out and see if the "shakes" go.

Excellent @Jibbo look forward to it :)

@jibbo and @Lake3 - how did you get the fps up from the stock 30? I have unloaded and reloaded a number of times - still only 30fps . It simply greys out when trying to change? Did you do some trickery in the main phone settings?

Sounds great for a weeks ski holiday where you are generally wrecked after day 3

@Chef23 totally agree but I think what makes it work is that you can see the right shoulder and right hip in pic2 and the handle is close. I think a world of pain could open up if you used the position in pic1 to do what is being done in pic 2 :) (Phew just saved myself from suggesting "trailing arm pressure") (Just love all this body mechanics!)

@disland not quite like that - I am thing about it as a spectator rather than skier. I can't remember which comp it was last year, but we watched the whole weekend only for the finale to be a dud when Will missed his gates at 12 against Nate. Ridiculous - everyone knows Will can make 12 in his sleep - There was no way that anyone - even Danno the manno - could make that result exciting, a serious let down. The problem being the rules and the format. So what I meant was: "Qualification" rounds as normal to establish the "cut off" for finals.(we still get to see the pros cruising 13m) Finals = everyone starts at the "cut off" line length. If a skier makes the pass then they shorten as normal until they fail. Whatever line length they fail on - they get 2 more goes. Effectively all skiers are still getting to ski about 4 passes but it elimates the whole "missed the gates " and "falling early" elements. crucially pretty much every pass is going to be exciting. Imagine Nate standing up round 1@43 knowing that he is going to turn and have another crack at it! Lots more for us, sponsors and commentators to cheer about. As a spectator you also get to enjoy watching skiers compete against their own scores as much as each other. Nobody has to be tentative to get down the line they can "go for it" every pass. As for the skiers having to, say start at 39 or 41 off the dock - why not? In athletics sportsmen/woman have to perform at their peak, from then start, all the time - just need to warm up properly. Anyway just an idea to chew on.....

For spectators - Make slalom like Jump - 3 goes at your hardest pass (no warm up passes which are boring).

Similar problem at 14 as 13 - you are too fast at th bouy = slack. At 14 you are more patient finishing the turn which allows you to manage it better. Too much speed at the bouy stems from loading too early at the gate turn in, ( limiting your ski angle) and then "blocking" through to a late edge change sking directly at the bouy.

To some degree I am with @than_bogan; currently what I do fits my personal circumstances perfectly. It would be good to have the loch at the foot of the garden and a 12 month season but that's about it. With this sport, like so many of us, I am in "competition" each and every time I go out. I am a ski nerd however and love watching the competitions on the webcasts. Pros, Dawgs, women, collegiate - it's all good and I will avidly analyse the "technique" and enjoy the "warm up passes" as much as the final passes. It would be a great pity if, as is being voiced, that the Pro competitions die away from "lack of public interest" and thereby lack of necessary sponsorship - we all need heroes and its the athletes at the top who inspire. It seems that what is needed is a bit of a "think tank" to effectively rebrand the sport to the kids and "extreme" masses. Whilst the grass roots processes probably don't need to change (running long line can be extreme if you don't know what you're doing!) the top end pro comps are where things can and should be made much more exciting for a viewing audience, and to inspire participation. The ideas so far are great: 1. "head to head" comps (like the big dawg) certainly makes things easier to understand on the shore line and does create more excitement ( need to work on the gate rule though ) 2. Side by side courses would be great to watch but might be difficult to actually create with so many lakes being only one course wide. The biggest problems I see are, that to the public: 1. a days competition is a long boring process with not much happening 2. Even with good commentary the critical stuff only really comes round every 10-15mins - it's really tough to keep people interested. 3. Yes, the current terminology is confusing to the uninitiated - (I don't even know what 15off means - is it 18 or 16m?) 4. There is not enough drama - a paradox is that the better we are at this sport the less exciting it can look - I love watching the first 3 "technique" passes but with the top skiers they are largely irrelevant and mean nothing to the public ( like a 100m sprinter jogging round the track before the big race - why?) it's blunt but with wipe outs, the viewing is more dramatic. The collegiate outages video shows this clearly. So here's another idea for the "think tank": How about a proper Pro "shoot out" competition: 1.The prelims would be the same as usual, but the "cut" for finals would be the starting line length. 2. Each competitor that makes the "cut" then enters the finals starting at that length. From last weeks open that would mean everyone starting at 10.75. (Could be done as a "head to head" sudden death for greater drama) 3. Each skier gets 3 attempts to see how far up the pass / or even next pass they get. (Why when you fall at a pass should it be game over? - I would love to see some of the pros having 3 attempts at 10.25, without having to worry about the passes before). This would be a potentially shorter competition but with potential drama and excitement at every pass. It would be so much easier for the commentators to get the public behind it (and sponsors?) On a separate note I've heard people being negative of the Big Dawg format before. I understand why, in terms of taking the focus away from the Pros etc but I think as a community this is something that we should be especially proud about - there are very few "extreme" or "power" sports where it is possible to continue to compete at a high level over the age of 40. Of course the sport, like any, will only grow with the kids coming through, but isn't it great that it's something they can do into middle age and beyond - at pretty much the same level? Who knows how long the Big Dawg interest will last now it's become mostly an "ex-pro" event, but I for one still aspire to such levels - just once! As has been said on another thread, the cumulative stresses that the sport places on our bodies over the years has a byproduct in older skiers having much "younger" bodies than would be expected for their ages. If you don't "break" it really can be a "fountain of youth". Toning and conditioning without having to think about it - it's an amazing sport that we have and more people deserve to know about it, at all ages.

You will get LOTS of conflicting ideas as there are a number of concepts that allow you to get round in reasonable shape. One you can add to your list is NOT to try to turn the bouy. What I mean is that at the moment ( from what I can see - which is limited with a video from this angle) you are starting to try to turn straight off the second wake. Instead think of the course as 7 starts: Like your gate - Get out wide as early as possible, pause while you equalise speed with boat and get balanced, then drop into to your connection to the other side. Do it again . I would also say that at the level you are at you would do well not to just find a way of running this pass, but start to use a technique / concept that will nurture the good habits you will need as the line shortens. Trying to get rid of over practised bad habits is what causes us all to plateau.

Symptomatic treatment is good. In all seriousness have had both problems for a couple of years (couldn't do pull ups or arm curls) and fixed them this year by concentrating on skiing with straight arms and not taking hits or only taking hits with my legs - straight arns and stacked properly, everything moving across course. The correct stack as everyone here knows is REALLY hard to do correctly (and I still have work to do) but it will go a long way to sort the problem. Now I just need to work out the patellar tendonitis!

Wow @Than_Bogan impressive stuff - especially in the dark (know what that's like trying to get sets in after work ). The really big question is: Will the Denali work just as well on this side of the "pond"? I am sure this is a question that the Adams have been kept awake at night pondering an algorithm for. Ponder no more Adamses - the guys at Water Ski Scotland are available to help answer this question. @adamcord please do let us know if there is any way of getting a "test" over here? We have plenty of short line ski test dummies!

Gopro can make it look like you are skiing a very long way away. The two pics are stills from a video using the 2x zoom lens on the gopro ( gopro set to narrow fov). First picture is video on iPad as comes up, the second is the view when you double tap the iPad to expand the picture. Obviously you can crop the image in iMovie or similar but that takes time.

@ToddF - for me video is invaluable. Reasons: - We don't have any consistent coaching here - lots of well meaning guys in the boat but no one actually skiing consistently at 13 or shorter (which is where I spend my time), so I need to coach myself. - Very often I will be working on something and because I don't make many passes, or have a "feel bad" set, assume it's not working only to find when I watch the video back that it is and it has actually highlighted another issue - if I just listened to my body or the guys in the boat I would miss so much. (I also dislike the "quick fix" approach to coaching ie Palm up/down, look over there, counter here etc, which deflects what you are trying to impose on the ski. "Fixes" can be useful but I want to know what they are actually trying to achieve ) - So often you think you are making a major change because it feels different yet when you watch the video you can really see If a meaningful change is taking place or if you are kidding yourself. - I have sent video to a number of coaches (Rossi, Seth ) and find that not only does this work but I can then go back later and compare videos to make sure the change is permanent. - When I make a PB I have it recorded :) - When I stuff it up I have it recorded :) Note - I currently use a gopro (with £20 zoom lens) and a tracker - turn it on and forget about it at the beginning of the set.

Yes - was struggling with 18m, 16m and random 14m, now start at 14, 13 mostly a given, 12 every second set or so. Have got to 5@11. Importantly it's all smooth and controlled now and TOTALLY different when I watch the videos. I was 46 ( been skiing for 36years, started course skiing in my teens - gap of 20years then picked it up again. Took 4 years Hell yes - feel I can ski into my 60s now See above...

It's like the final was cancelled - very disappointing. I have never really bought into the "gates" arguments before but as a spectacle for the public to view a finish like that is really poor. Interestingly I looked around the webcast platform and they had a disc golf webcast with "thousands" of viewers !

18m is best but same problems for all lines: You are getting caught at the gate and then fighting every load/acceleration phase across the wake. Any other problems are because of this. You clearly know what do and have the skills to go up the rope quickly if you fixit. My advice ( before Horton says it) get your alignment (stack) sorted and then learn how to trust that position and let the boat accelerate you wide and early. There are loads of threads on here about just this, if you are a " visual" learner then keep videoing as you make changes and compare to this video and videos of the pros. If you freeze frame at the point of boat contact ( just before the white water ) you will see that at every point you are slightly broken at the waist, have already lost connection with the handle and have bent arms trying to resist the boat. This becomes more obvious as you shorten the line. Whether you are skiing 18 or 11.25 the alignment needs to be the same. First thing is to be able to actually feel what it's like so do the Gordon Rathbun drill of shortening to 11 and pulling out along as far up on the boat on both sides working on getting the right position and feeling it. Much easier with a coach but if not video it and compare to the pros or post here again. ( little tweaks in position make all the difference). Then you can work on the gate and figure out how to get in this position at the right time for everything to come together - which with your skiing really shouldn't take you long :)

Keeping it fun but stopping bad habits early - from the off I taught my kids to turn with their hips rather than lean or shoulders. Think it's paying dividends now : My son is a reluctant skier, only skiing a few sets a year due to school and other commitments,he has been skiing two handed throughout but this is a photo from the first pass he tried letting go with one hand. ( wish I looked as good as this). Wish I could get him to ski some more - there is potential there I think.