Why ski tournaments?

[kpickett]

After reading through the thread, "Is skiing dying?" there was a lot of discussion of serious skiers who do tournaments and those who don't. So, I have an honest question (and I'm not trying to start any sort of flame war at all). If I'm not even close to being good enough to ski nationals or even regionals, why should I ski tournaments? I'm doing the INT this year, but mainly because it's hosted at my lake. It does feel a little silly, though, since everyone (more or less) skiing the tournament is a member of the lake, and I'm just skiing a tourney with the same folks I always ski with. Plus, there are only a couple other folks in my division.

 

I thought there might be more folks at the AWSA tournaments, so I looked up scores from a couple local AWSA tourneys and found there were only 2 or 3 other M3 skiers per tournament there also. As an M3 skier who can only get a couple at 35, I am not really competitive in my age group, so it's hard to see travelling to tournaments and paying entry fees for a couple passes, when I could ski all weekend at my home lake, where it's fun for my wife and our 9 month old and 4 year old. My wife is not going to ski tournaments - period. Some day my kids might, and that would make it more attractive for me to ski.

 

So, someone talk me into it. Why ski tournaments?

[Horton]

For the challenge

[lakeaustinskier]

As someone that has recently started skiing tournaments again tournaments are fun for my family.  I would not ski them if my family could not be involved.  I also believe that there's some life lesson value to learning to perform under pressure.  Tournaments also tend to focus my technique during practice.  Think of it this way - I'd rather be baking in the sun all day at a tournament than watching a soccer tournament go on and on and on.  The ski tournament allows everyone in the family not just one kid (well not the wife) to participate.  

[LeonL]

I don't know your area or situation, but I kinda enjoy seeing all the people at the tournaments.  Where I ski, that's the only time/place that I see some of these people.  I always seem to learn something being around people that are better than me.  Since I enjoy the sport and want it to survive I support it by being a judge and driver.  But there is no way someone can talk you into working all day (except for the few minutes that you ski) in the hot sun if all you're looking for is personal benefit.  Tournament skiing isn't for everyone, even if you love skiing.  To each his own, but that's sorta why I ski tournaments.     

[Than_Bogan]

Reasons I ski tournaments and/or benefits of skiing tournaments.  These are in reverse order.

3) I enjoy measuring myself.  It's a different accomplishment to try -35 off 20 times during the week and run it once than it is to go to a tournament and run it.  And when I see my ranking, I know it means something and that I've accomplished something.  This is purely a personality thing (arguably a personality disorder...)  To me, structured competition itself is a unique kind of fun that can't be duplicated in practice.

2) I've made friends and built a "network" of fellow addicts so that I can ski whereever I find myself in the country.

1) I've become a MUCH better skier.  Doing tournaments has had numerous positive effects on my skiing ability.  At one level, it is very motivational.  I go out there and do worse than I hoped and I find yourself with a renewed desire back home.  I cannot match this from practice alone.  Also, I see other skiers skiing well and I desire to be like them.  If  these folks can do this, why can't I?  But most importantly I learn a TON about skiing, much of it "by osmosis" just from hanging around with serious skiers -- watching them ski;  talking to them about life, stupidity, preparation, or even skiing(!);  listening to what THEY are working on; learning about ZO, skis, gloves, handles, etc.; and perhaps most important of all: getting a different perspective that I don't get every day.

The bottom line is that almost everyone I know who started skiing tournaments ended up a much better skier.  You in particular are only 1 pass away from qualifying for Nationals.  Skiing tournaments quite possibly could get you there over a few seasons.  I find it's pretty darn cool to be able to say I'm qualified for Nationals, even on years where it doesn't fit for me to actually attend (including this one).

Of course, if you don't really care how good of a skier you are (and I don't mean that in any way sarcastically) and just want to focus on having fun at your lake, then there really IS no reason to do tournaments.  My dad loves skiing, is totally comfortable running 28 mph all the time, and has no desire whatsoever to ski in a tournament.  It's not for everyone.

For me, it's been great.

[ML]

So i will jump in after lurking for quite a while. My wife and i love doing tournaments and its not because we are competitive at them. I have never run 32 and most often take home the MOP beer for the weekend. For us its about the poeple there, maybe we're just lucky up here in the PNW but its just a great group of people. We go to see freinds, be involved and just have a good time. No pressure( except what you put on yourself), I have never had any of the other competitors make fun of me for eating crap which i do alot. Their supportive and helpful and really want to see you do well. I am also a M3 guy and will be most curtainly finishing last even if i run a PB, but who cares I know there will be a cold beer waiting for me at the end. Its not for everyone and yes its expensive( why we've done less this year) but I think its important to be involved in any way. Sounds like the guys down South have fun too, I know some year we will make it down there to find out in person. So there i did my best to talk you into it, probably failed but gave it a shot.

 

By the way I'm sure my wife Mrs. ML (just crapped her pants because i posted something)

[kpickett]

Horton - every time I ski a pass, it's a challenge. These days, while I'm in a slump, it's more challenging than I want.

[Than_Bogan]

Another reason to do tournaments: Helps finding your way out of a slump.  Almost by definition, a slump is a state where you keep doing the same thing wrong, but you don't know how to fix it.  A fresh set of eyes or a new perspective is often the best hope to break that cycle.

In fact, this happened to me quite recently -- not technically AT a tournament I must admit, but skiing a practice set at a tournament site with someone I would have never even met had I not done tournaments.  He saw some technical and setup issues that my regular ski partner had not.  I ski with a guy who is a GREAT skier and a GREAT coach, but he sees me doing the same wrong things all the time.  A fresh set of eyes found things that got me right back on track!

[Boody]

Skiing tournaments is a challenge.  Its puts pressure on you to practice hard and ski well when it counts.  That feeling of competition is hard to come by for most of us and tournaments fills that void.  The feeling of skiing well in a tournament is much more satisfying than skiing well practice.  Would you really focus in practice if you didn't have a tournament to look forward to, or would you just go thru the motions?

I see so many of my non ski friends go to the lake, float around, drink beer and make a half assed attempt at fill in the blank.  They don't have feeling of competition and haven't felt that probably since high school sports.

Aside from the competition, they are fun social events.  Its like a big weekend party.  Where else are you going to do someting you love and hang out with a ton of fun people that enjoy the same thing.  I have made great friends all over the west coast because of tournaments. Couldn't imagine my life without tournaments, how boring. 

[kpickett]

LeonL - at our INT tourneys, we all pitch in and work - doing announcing, boat judging, working the dock, etc. It is fun, no question. It's just really hard to do a whole weekend of that when you have little kids.

[kpickett]

To everyone - I understand about the personal challenge and improvement aspect. I ran a PB of 1.5 @ 35 at our first INT this year. I was definitely psyched. My previous tourney PB was 1 or 2 at 28, but I hadn't skied the tourneys for 3 years, so obviously, I had been improving without the motivation of a tourney.

 

I guess the real issue for me is - if it's just about testing myself, I can do that every time I ski. If it's about competition, what fun is it if there are only 2 skiers in the division? OR, what fun is it if everyone else in the division skis 2 passes better than you do?

 

This board is great. I lurk here every day. I learn a lot from you guys. Most of you ski so much better than I do, that it would seem pointless to "compete" against you in a tournament.

[Boody]

I never thought tournaments were to compete against others, you are competing against yourself.  Regionals, Nationals, Big Dawg and Pro Tour is the only time you compete against others.  I could care less if I "win" my division.  But if I took last and skied a PB, that is a great day.

[Than_Bogan]

"I was definitely psyched."

Think you just answered your own question.

Btw, the "right" answer for you could be to go to a tournament once every three years.  Maybe that's the right blend of the "psyched" part and your time commitments.  I personally couldn't handle the dozen+ tournaments that many people do every year, but I enjoy 5-6 a year quite a lot.

Skiing tournaments doesn't necessarily require any specific rate of participation.

[ML]

Think of it this way, your hanging out with people with the same passion you have. Just happens to be at a different lake from your home lake and theres clip boards in the boat. At the end of the day you've probably learned something new, meet a new buddy and had a great time.

[Mrs ML]

First off - ditto to what my hubbs said. We LOVE going to tournaments. The atmosphere and social aspect is great. I enjoy the "tournament challenge".....which for me is staying calm and not getting "skiing amnesia" when I pull out for the gates. But, everyone has their own reasons. Either you like to do them or you don't. To each his own and I respect people just for trying and enjoying it at their own pace.

Secondly - thankfully I did not crap my pants because my lurking husband actually posted something. That is not an attractive thing./vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-embarassed.gif

[Old MS Accout]

Read the OMG- HORTON is comming thread.

That is how you have fun.

6 Rounds, Food, you meet people from all over the country and you get all the coaching you want.

Did I mention Beer.

Just dont ski bad or they will tear you apart. By Bad I mean below your average.   

[baumer]

Hey kpickett - I know, i've felt the same way about the tournament situation so this year I'm gonna make myself do two maybe three and use the last one as a tune up for INT championships (if we can swing the trip). Mainly because I want to push myself harder step out of the box some, but also to experience other ski sites and people, should be fun.

The first weekend of Oct in the town I live in has a tournament that I'm going to ski in and I wont know anyone could use the company??? Oh, they are running the supermaster format so you wouldn't have to compete against the guys who ski into 38 and 39. Two rounds each day you could do it one day or both and M3 goes second to last each round. To me it looks like ski at noon and 4pm both days and if the kids need some time away, the house is close.

You are into 35

You're a great skier, tournaments or not it's about having fun do whats best for you.

[kpickett]

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I think this should be an ongoing discussion.

 

Phil, I'll do the tourney with you, if my schedule allows. Thanks! You, of course, have moved into that elusive 38 class!

 

I'm going to take this weekend off from skiing entirely before our INT tourney next week. Hope I can break out of the slump.

[h2oski]

Mainly its the people you become friends with.  I've never made -22 in a tournament so I am not there to compete with anyone and there really isn't anything to win anyway.  You also get to ski sites that you may not get to ski in any other way.  I also enjoy driving and judging.  Most importantly, if you ski tournaments you can enter the EZ Challenge!

[skidawg]

Ditto MS,

 

tournaments are for friends and relationships, those last much longer than scores n medals

[MarkTimm]

Tournaments are definetly a personal choice for many reasons, to me it was always about challenging myself. Not to mention the lifetime friendships, the co-best men at my wedding were brothers that I would have never met had it no been for skiing tournaments.

[Dirt]

You must ski tournaments because it will make you chase buoys and forget about good technique. You will look at your regionals pictures and not be able to believe you ran a pass with the handle that high on your chest (it looked like an old LaPoint photo) You will quickly regress into pathetic and be ridiculed by your so-called friends. You will finally decrease the boat speed to 34 mph only to find that it is more difficult. You will sign up for a tournament in Louisiana and agree to meet Horton there. You are insane.

[skidawg]

Once u go cottonwood u never go back!

[h2odawg79]

I would'nt think the mentality of Ski toury's would be all that different then any other amateur competitive sport. Like Golf or Bowling etc... Some people love to Golf or Bowl and our very, very pasionate or even "slightly obsessed", (Low Handicappers or carrying a 200+ ave.) but not all of these competitive souls enjoy tounaments. And with these two sports, unlike Slalom, there's a tourny every w/e right in your own Home town or the next one. But, the crowd and atmosphere is either appealing or it's not. The Reward vs. the cost either makes sense or it does not. Finding out how well you can do any sport "Under pressure" or "when it counts" is understandable and Cool for some people and not even a consideration for others.

Until they start paying the w/e warrior enuf to be able to actually "afford" the sport and make the House pmt's,  it will always come back to one common denominator: FUN! -and that's purely individual...

I do like dsmarts analogy!!! -that sounds a lot like me. "obsessive compulsive self destruction"!

[lakeo]

Golf is not waterskiing. Years ago I played golf. To be okay at it you need to play 3 to 4 days a week and it tkaes forever time wise. I water ski everyday from may through september and often twice day. a set(six - eight passes) takes one half hour(okay I live on a lake). Typically I run a couple at 38(oleperson speed). No tourney because the nearest one is 3 hours away. Someday I might rejoin the tourney scene. I did enjoy it back then I ran a few at 35 and the people were great(NYS). But again waterskiing is not thetime committment that golf takes. my 2 cents.

[Jean B]

I started skiing tournaments, three summers ago now. The first tournaments I usually moped on most of my opening rounds. Almost gave up, but the challenge of it kept me coming back. I am always very happy when I make my opening pass. :)  I love being out doors and being with all my new found water skiing friends at the tournaments. I'm a judge and driver. I really enjoy watching everyone else ski and I am happy when they ski well and happy when they get new PB's. I am there to challenge myself. If there is actually another skier in the same age group as me, then Yay for them if they ski better then me. I am glad I know a lot of skiers with boats, because my boat is in the shop waiting for Zippy to get back from a tournament, so he can fix it for me.

[Horton]

For me a tournament is where I prove to myself and the world what I can do. My practice best is a bit higher than my tournament best. Heck go back in time to when I was a 3 event skier..... what I would give to have my farthest jumps be official. The point is practice scores are great but they carry a lot less weight in terms of accomplishment.

[skidawg]

Agreed, I would kill to have my farthest jumps in the books!!!

[Bud Man]

If you don’t have time to read this book, look for the CliffsNotes to be published later.

 

I love skiing and I like tournament skiing and I think there is enough difference in the two to understand why some people would like one and not the other. I also think that groups of people are different enough to make either experience different. i.e. warm and friendly verses cold and indifferent. When I got involved with course skiing in the early 90’s, I formed a water ski club in my area. We had loads of fun. We had a bunch of non-AWSA tournaments with awards. We had practice skiing with cook-outs included and probably over thirty members. The pro tour stopped being shown on TV and overall interest faded.

 

I like tournaments despite some negative experiences. The first tournament I went to, I was just learning to ski the course. They had a Novice division. I place third and was very excited to know I was getting a trophy. However, they told me that someone in the Expert division had entered in the Novice division, so they gave him the first place trophy which meant that 1^st got 2^nd, 2^nd got 3^rd and I got nada. Three of us walked away feeling screwed. I was determined to progress. The next tournament, I won 1^st place Novice. I don’t think tangible awards are that important, but I do think they are more special to entry level people in any sport. I played hard and move my ranking to Expert, then Master and then EP. I tied second with Rick Anderson at States. I moved out of M2 to M3 and competed at the State Championship and got third place with only fractions of a buoy separating me and Kim Bryant, Finklea Tomlinson and me.  My area usually only had two tournaments a year. I am not much for travel, but I made a point to always support and ski in the State Championship. I think it was the 1996 State Championship where I was so offended, I quit tournament skiing. By then attendance had really faded in my area. My interest had not faded. In practice, I was starting to get more consistent at -38, so I was stoked to try it under tournament pressure. In all previous tournaments I had skied, there was an equipment check table near the starting dock. They would put a sticker dot on your handle, ski and vest after checking them. There was always a dock starter checking for your three stickers as you congregated on the starting dock. On that day, they were few people to be seen anywhere. My wife and I set our chairs near the starting dock. So we could hear the intercom and follow the running order. That was given to me when I signed in that morning. I was first to ski in M3 and when my turn came, I put on my ski and got in the water. The boat pulled the rope tight and then said get out of the water, I was disqualified for not having my equipment checked. I walked down to speak to the chief judge and he handed me a rule book and told me that the equipment check was in a different area. They checked my ski and vest but NOT my handle. I was told that they were not checking handles and that NO ONE had their handles checked. I found in the current rule book that it was required to check and mark ALL THREE and that there was to be a dock starter to confirm the marks before you ski. I pointed out that they were not following the outlined rules because there was not a dock starter, not using any stickers and not checking any handles. I pointed out that we were there to have fun and to please let me ski. At the end of M3 round they took the boat around the lake and gathered about twelve people to vote. The vote was to not let me ski. I then pointed out that if they think they are so right then why are they breaking USCG listing on the boat sticker by overloading the boat. As you can imagine, that didn’t help.

 

I continued non-tournament skiing and teaching skiing. I eventually accomplished the -39 a few times. After about ten years, some friends of mine convinced me that things had changed and the click that used to run thing were not involved any more and I should come ski in their tournament. I took their advice and skied some tournaments. I broke our state’s M4 record by getting two buoys at -39. I was so excited to know I was going to be in a record book. Disappointedly, they put my first name in the record book with the last name of the previous holder. The next year our state was not listed at all. I knew a M3 record holder had skied himself into MM with ½ @ -41. I sent our state people a letter to point out our state had a tournament division for MM but had not added it to our record book like others had done since MM came into play. The next year that same person entered a tournament in the MM division and got, I think, 4@-39. Instead of listing him as a record holder in MM they bumped me and put him in the M4 slot. Isn’t that like taking an Open Men and bumping him into a M2 record slot? It is not good for either person. Life is great, but not always fair. Tournament skiing is great, but not always fair. I have passionately devoted twenty years to course skiing and have recently built a ski lake. I have thought about building a casket shaped like a ski boat so I can be buried inside suited up to ski; vest, gloves, handle with ski by my side. Hopefully there will be a great many years ahead before I would need it.

 

I would like to host some fun tournaments with cash prizes, but handicap it some how so all levels can compete on the same level. Skiing, music, food, fun and great camaraderie. But first I need grass around the lake. It would be a mess right now. I want to like to skiing tournaments more. No one is perfect and mistakes will be made. Maybe in time my interest will grow? I don’t know if anyone else is like this, but I challenge myself so hard to ski better that I often get butterflies right before I practice ski.

 

Bless all those who fought and who are fighting for our freedom. God bless America.

[h2odawg79]

re: "The point is practice scores are great but they carry a lot less weight in terms of accomplishment".

Horton, you forgot to say; -"For me anyway, the popint is......."  or -"but for me, they carry a lot less"........

[DW]

The number of comments in one day (here) might give you a hint as to the passion and fun a tounament provides.  The challenge and a great forum to improve your skiing.

[Horton]

H2d79,

Ya and you can add that to all posts if that helps

[Horton]

h2odawg79

I think you can mentally add or imagine the words  "from my point of view" in front of every statemt that has ever been written on a web forum.

[h2odawg79]

Thats a Great point for sure. But, I was actually just trying to separate the things that "Are" somehow better or carry more wgt. for everyone, from the things that may be better or carry more wgt. for a person and the others who also feel the same way...http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif 

Especially for the skier who (for what ever reason) only ski's "practice" -w/o tourney's,  his or her  Practices are their only measuring stick of personal accomplishment and Fun... I know you are level headed enough and have enuf Class to not look down upon non tourney skiers or discount their efforts. But, the same cannot be said of some skiers who mistakenly feel that they are somehow more important or more credable because they ski tournaments. 

[Horton]

I hear you. We all chase the sport in our own way. For me a tounement score means a lot more .

[Than_Bogan]

Oh yeah, that's another reason I ski tournaments:  So I can be more important and more credible! /vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif

[jdarwin]

It does bother me to hear some skiers talk about running 53-off and yet they never ski a tournament where the parameters are established.  What I would do for a 17.12 end time and some significant swerve!

[h2odawg79]

re: " We all chase the sport in our own way. For me a tournament score means a lot more" .

WOW! Now, That' ll Preach!!!http://www.ballofspray.com/vanillaforum/js/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif  -even a bit profound I think!

[Horton]

Carefull JD. If skiers are having fun doing it thier way I say go for it. It may not work for you and as long as people are skiing I am for it.

[jdarwin]

Horton - I agree w/you - it's all fun and games.  But all 38 off's are not created equal.  That's the point I was trying to make relative to the topic at hand.  Tournaments DO level the playing field somewhat but there are some "questionable" activties there as well.

[RichardDoane]

The tournament we had this past weekend had a "Luau" theme with a BBQ pig dinner included, I'd guess it was dinner for about 70 people, all of which I consider to be friends, as well as ski buddies.  It's a great group of people who I see in the summer months, and then miss over the winter and spring until the next season begins and we all get to catch up again.  It's also about attaining reputable scores, but it's the friends and families that are the best part.

[Jean B]

I had the most fun these last two summers at the Return to Broho tournament, where we barbecue Saturday, (this year we barbecued on Sun too, Ribs, Yum) then on Sunday after our three rounds of skiing is done, we have the head to head. The head to head is a lot of fun, anyone that wants to participate skies, with a handicap. This year a teenager beat all the big dog skiers. :)

[kpickett]

I appreciate all the comments. This obviously stirs up a lot of passion. I think that if we didn't have two little kids, I'd really enjoy traveling around the state, meeting other skiers, and skiing at a bunch of different lakes, regardless of the competition. I'm hoping that my boys will get the bug to ski tourneys when they're a little older. Then I'll have good reason to do the circuit. I enjoy the INT, and I am going to do ours again this weekend. Maybe I'll hit an AWSA tourney before the season ends. Too bad we have to have two different sanctioning body memberships.

[kpickett]

Also, I love the idea of head-to-head tourneys that are handicapped for ability. Then, you get to ski against yourself AND really compete against someone else. I think that would be even more fun than the ability based grouping of INT.

[Than_Bogan]

Sounds like a well-informed decision!  I got into tournament before having kids, and couldn't really imagine giving them up now, but I did dial things back a bit.  With young children, adding anything new is VERY hard.

If my kids get into it someday, I might do more tournaments in the future, but even if they don't I'll continue with my 4-6 per year.

[jdarwin]

I typically try and infuse something different into my tournaments (teams, handicapped scoring, etc.).  It does add another dimension to the event but it can be a nightmare to manage if you have a bunch of skiers.  I'm working on something for my Sept tournament such as 2-member teams competing together and combining their USAWS avg against others.  It's difficult to do when you have a couple of skiers who get into 41-off and some kids who ski 17mph.  Those darn kids PB every round!!

[HO 410]

That has me thinking back to the days at school when the PE coach told everyone to partner up. I'm envisioning your 10.25ers running around like mad to snatch up Novice, Beginner, and B1/G1 skiers for partners.

 

[kpickett]

Posted on the Water Ski Forum today - it came from a heated discussion about ZO, but it gives an interesting perspective:

"If you ski tournaments just to see what you are capable of and to motivate you to improve, you're not much of a competitor, and tournaments, be it with ZO or PP, are proably not for you anyway. Would you like to medal at a big tournament? Would you like to see your name go up on the National Ranking List every week? Would you like to have a better score at Nationals than 25 guys who have a higher average than you? If you answered NO to any of those questions, you shouldn't waste your time going to tournaments...no matter what the speed control being used is."

[skibug]

I wouldn't vote that guy an embassador of the sport.....sort of an elitest point of view.

[lottawatta]

All I can say is that it is attitudes like that make it less fun to host tournaments, operate ski lakes and promote the sport.