failure is built into our sport

[jRoe]

Well after having the best month of skiing in my life i go to a tournament this weekend and failure erupts... most all of us have been there, but a few just seem to have good scores. You know them, maybe you practice with them.... they seem to always get it done! But our sport is build around failure, even if you ski your practice best (pB) you find yourself thinking man I should have got one more buoy, whats wrong with us.

 

I think this is why some many skiers leave the sport, it's tuff and I'm pissed and ready to prove myself............... but alot of people just find something else to do. My wife says I'm crazy,,,,, It controls your life (not really).. but its important. I just wanta be like the guys that seem to get it done most of the times. My score this weekend 2@35,,, my average 2@38 .,,,,my practice average the last 2 weeks 3@38 ....

 

Jroe, just get it done man !....

[ForrestGump]

Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug.

[ntx]

You are only as good as your last tournament score. Practice does not count.

[jRoe]

all true and i saw Horton ski the other day... .... needs work .. sorry man

[Ed_Obermeier]

A practice PB doesn't count for anything? BS. If you're skiing against anyone other than yourself IMO you're there for the wrong reason.

[skibug]

So if you never play in a golf tournament...do your rounds count? Sort of flawed logic. I will say that I believe skiing in tournaments will ultimately make you a better skier; but, it doesn't define you as a skier.

[tbrenchley]

@ntx I just have to ask what your last tournament score was?

[ntx]

I know WAY to many skiers who run into 38 off in practice but have never run 32 off in a tournament. So are they a 38 or 32 off skier? Pressure of a tournament is much differant than skiing a practice set. Miss your opener in practice, no big deal. You don't have to swim to shore and feel shame.

[OKSkier]

I wish more skiers had the same attitude as Bruce 55.

[Waternut]

If it takes me 3 tries to run my hardest pass ever but at the end of the day, I actually ran it. I'm happier than a pig in a whole field of feces!! Would that have counted in a tournament...of course not. However, I still feel I accomplished something and in my book, that's my new personal best!

 

This is actually why I've never gone to a tournament. I could go to a tournament, spend all day, make a couple passes that I typically make and miss one of my harder passes. Then end the day feeling as if I didn't accomplish much but kinda had fun. OR I could go to my local lake, ski with friends, work on getting better, work on running that next pass, and ski because I enjoy it and actually have fun...

[ntx]

@tbrenchley & @Bruce55 Due to many years of abuse on my body, I have no idea what my last tournamnet score was. It has been at least 8 years since I skied a tournament set OR a practice set. My tournamnet PB was 1@-38 with a practice PB of 4@-38 BUT, practice does not count. This was back in the days of EP's and hand drivers.

 

I wonder when they will start to post practice scores into the rankings list. Or when class C tournaments will be included into the Worlds List.

 

[ozski]

I've never been much a big day skier but the great thing about this sport is you can go out any day of the week and measure yourself against the course. This week I have nothing to prove and I'm ok with it.

[Brady]

@OKSkier Actually, most skiers are like @Bruce55, at least on BoS they are. @ntx, all of us have damaged our bodies. When I was went into my final physical after playing college football for 5 years, they informed me that I had the joints of a 55 year old man and I was 24. Sounds like you need to look in the mirror and then go out and beat that guy staring back at you and then go do it again and again and again. I bet you will find that true passion and I believe if you truly go after yourself, that tournament pressure will rear its head and the pressure will be on!

[tbrenchley]

I guess since my dad and uncle no longer ski in tournaments and just do it for a fun little competition between the two of them they don't really actually ski because it's not a record capable tournament? I guess I would call them out if they started running around the dock claiming they are basically ranked #?? in the USA because their practice average is the same as a ranked skier that has a 12 month tournament average of the same score, but since they don't I'll just let them pretend like they can ski. Besides, @ntx why would you even tell us your practice PB of 4 @ 38 if it doesn't count anyway?

[gsm_peter]

I just ski because it is fun and great training.

Do not think I will never compete.

My goal is to do 22 off at 34 or 32 and assume I reach that it will not be sufficient in any race.

I just managed a few 28 the other day and I think that this is great since I started ski at age 52 and am now on my third seson.

Last week I also tried 22 off for the second time and made a complete 26 mph.

And I do not have any problems with the entry gate. Just pretend it isnt there. Sometimes I go through it by misstake.

 

All of this counts as sucess and satisfaction for me.

[ntx]

@brady thank you for the words of encouragement. I wish it was that easy. After more than 25 years of tournaments, I am pretty sure that the tournament set is done for me. I still enjoy the tournamnet scene, the friends made along the way, and supporting others in the quest for success.

 

@tbrenchley There is nothing wrong with the guy who skies against his friends each week for bragging rights. They are skiers also. My point was towards the author of the first post, who stated that "after the best month of skiing in his life, he went to a tournament and failure erupts." All skiers who have walked to a tournament starting dock knows the feeling. Many years ago I read a artical where Kris Lapoint said that the tournament butterflys never go away, the best you can hope for is to try and get them to fly in formation.

 

My first post was to reinforce the concept that tournament skiing, and practice skiing, are two very different animals. And that the results for most skiers are also.

[jackski]

I see one problem I see with practice scores as opposed to tournament scores. Several years a go, a bunch of guys who weren't skiing all that long were getting deep into 38. When we went there to check the site for a possible tournament there, we found that the floating course was several feet narrower on each side and very short. In the days of old RPM PP that meant 31-32 mph on a 5 foot narrow course. When all was fixed the scores were a couple at 28 off not deep 38.

But either way ya have to have fun at it too.

[9400]

I love the butterflys at the starting dock, I love tournament skiing. I love the atmosphere of tournaments. But I understand why people don't ski them. They do take up a lot of time and make us be away from people that don't want to hang around tournaments all day and they create performance anxieties (that's where the butterflys come from). Sometimes life gets too busy for tournaments. I think @jackski brings up a good point though. The only way you have a good idea whether it's apples to apples is a record tournament or at least a C tournament where REL tournaments are run.....right Dr. Jim? Sorry I need a good Dr Jim reference a couple of times a year.

 

 

 

[jackski]

@Bruce55 Do not misunderstand, I wasn't putting down anyone's practice scores or why they don't want to go to tournaments, the skiing is the important part. Keeps you fit, mentally sharp and innovative. For me personally I like the small home grown tournament scene because you meet people and get to spend time with them. Years ago our tournaments were more social events, almost more so than skiing events (almost). Lots of people used to come to watch a little but more so just to get together. Too bad those times are gone.

[Waternut]

@ntx I'm not sure I understand your logic. If tournament scores are all that matters to you but you can't physically compete in a tournament, why do you still ski? Not trying to be a cynic here but I literally don't get why you ski because reading your posts makes it sound like skiing is a complete waste of your time.

 

As for "practice doesn't count"... Didn't CP and Regina break world records in practice? They were just able to offer up enough evidence to make it stick. At least that's my understanding anyway. I've been wrong before.

[ntx]

@waternut If you go back and re-read one of my posts, I clearly say that I have not skied a tournament OR practice set in at least 8 years. In hind site, I bet it is really closer to 10. I am still very active in the ski world. Both as a host and driver of several tournaments each year.

 

I am not sure what you are referring to about CP and Regina and world records in practice??? Help me with that one.

[teammalibu]

@ntx if you know many skiers that run into 38 in practice and cant run 32 in a tournament then i would think something is realy out of whack with the practice sessions. The course rope or speed control is off or they are getting the major weave from the practice driver. Like Shane says you are either the bug or the windshield. If you ski tournaments more than once a year your practice avg. should be close to your tourney score! @shane who is showing up in your truck this weekend the bug or the windshield???

 

[Chef23]

I do think there is a difference between skiing on your own lake with your buddies and skiing in a tournament. I want to ski my best every time out and I have a friendly competition almost every morning with my primary ski partner. That said I get a different nervousness skiing in a tournament than I do at home. I am not a world beater but I do like going to a tournament and seeing how I can do in that environment. My PB in tournaments is 3.5@35 and at home it is 4@35 so they are close but there is definitely a different feeling.

 

I feel the same way about golf. I have played a fair amount of competitive golf including state level scratch events and there is a big difference playing in a tournament where everything counts, someone else is keeping your score and there is something on the line like a slot in the State Am where if you miss you have to wait a year to try again. In golf my tournament PB is 3 strokes worse than my regular PB and while they were both played by the strict rules of golf I am a lot more proud of my tournament PB.

 

I do totally understand why some people don't go to water ski tournaments. They take all day at a minimum or all weekend if you multi event and you could certainly ski more sets on your home lake. That said I have met great people, skied new sites and definitely push myself harder to get better when I ski at home knowing that I have another tournament coming up.

 

I have three rounds of slalom coming up this weekend and I can't wait. My son will add two rounds of trick and two of jump and I get just as nervous watching him ski.

[ski6jones]

@tbrenchley, Bingo!

[ForrestGump]

(Quote) As for "practice doesn't count"... Didn't CP and Regina break world records in practice? They were just able to offer up enough evidence to make it stick. At least that's my understanding anyway. I've been wrong before. (End Quote)

 

@waternut Unfortunately, you're wrong here. While I know that both have better'd their world records in practice, that has no bearing, and doesn't count. You must do it in a Record tournament, meaning course which has been surveyed in prior 6 months, Pan Am judge participation, Sr Judges, end course video review, etc. Nate, CP, and Regina's records are certified as records only because of this. Their practice score mean absolutely zero to them.

 

I will say this....... Record tournaments are tougher. It's not that having a C tournament at my site is any different than a Record at Cottonwood or Aquaplex or Utopia. For me, it's the mental hurdle to get over that this is the real deal. Which is why I've participated in 6 Record tournaments this year and only 3 C tournaments. Only way to get over that is to do it.

 

@teammalibu I'm planning on being the windshield this weekend. I'm due!

[Waternut]

@ntx Sorry, I did read that but thought you meant, you hadn't skied a real tournament style practice. Also sorry to hear you haven't been able to ski in that amount of time. That really sucks man.

 

@shaneh Thanks for clearing that up. The Goode videos on youtube sure look like practice sets and make it sound like it was a true world record.

[ForrestGump]

No, not practice at all. Although all the world records in the last years have been set at private sites during Record tournaments. CP initially set the OM record at one of the Ski Ranch Records in 2010. Regina initially broke the OW record at another Ski Ranch Record in 2010, then broke it at one of the Records at Cory Pickos place in 2011, then broke it again at the Cedar Ridge Record in 2012, then tied it at another Cedar Ridge record in 2013, and finally tied it and broke it again at the Freedom Slalom Fest at Utopia. Hell, I might have missed one of the times she tied or broke it even! lol. Nate tied the OM record at the Little Mountain record in June.

 

There is a LOT that goes into a world record sanctioned tournament.

[Than_Bogan]

I think every kind of skiing is great. But when I want to make comparisons, I want to compare things that are sorta the same. I agree with many who have stated above that practice and tournaments are different. Also sites are different. Also 1-round and/or R tournaments are different.

 

I relish all of the different challenges, and I track a variety of PBs. I suppose all-tournament PBs make me happiest, but only barely. A practice PB is a big thrill for me for sure. And a site best is always a great day (assuming I've skied there enough times for me to have something to compare to). And even special-circumstances bests like "that's the strongest tailwind I ever ran a -35 in" are fairly satisfying.

 

If tournaments disappeared from existence today, I wouldn't change a whole lot. I love competing against myself in practice. But since they do exist, they offer both a fascinating additional challenge and a great social vehicle to meet skiers and get better.

 

Fwiw, my practice PB is only 0.5 buoy better than my tournament PB, but even that is an unfair comparison because I never get to practice on the miracle water where I set my tournament PB. The other thing is my tournament scores are WAY more variable. I rarely miss a -35 in practice these days, whereas any given tournament round can be almost anything from crashing my opening pass to that miracle day that ran 1 @ -39 (after having not been within 3 buoys of that in practice!). After 20 years, I'm still searching for the consistent approach to always be mentally right for a tournament round. And I shall search on!!

[The_MS]

Its like the BOS forum where everyone runs 39 but then we get to the tourney and ski -28.

 

[Zman]

What @Than_Bogan said in last paragraph...

[Than_Bogan]

@Zman Whoops I kinda messed with you there and added a paragraph! I assume you're referring to the "If tournaments..." paragraph.

[ntx]

what @ms just said.

[Zman]

@Than_Bogan Yes, 3rd paragraph...well said, and prob speaks for many, but not all (and no right or wrong, everyone marches to their own drummer).

[ntx]

@scotchipman @teammalibu I agree with you both 100%. Some of them are regulars to this site. People post about running deep -35 in practice and don't run -32 in tournaments. Hence my comment "you are only as good as your last tournament set"

 

@waternut. No need to feel sorry. It was a choice I made. I admit that I abused my body but I also made a decision to put my energy into trying to allow my kids the opportunity to be successfull in this sport.

[BG1]

We ski, therefore we are.

[Chef23]

@ntx it took me quite a while of running mid -35 in practice to finally run a -32 in a tournament. However I do think if someone is running into -38 regularly and can't run -32 in a tournament there is an issue. Everyone that I know that runs into -38 regularly in practice runs -32 like i run -28.

[teammalibu]

I will say I know several people including myself whose tourney pb is higher than their practice pb. I know in a tourney you tend to hang on to stuff you would prolly let go of in practice!

[9400]

We had a guy that showed up at our tournaments, was always running 38 at home. I don't think I ever saw him run 35 in about 10-15 rounds. Turned out the course at home was narrow....obviously by more than 3/4 meters.

 

Also I've seen some people really flake out on the starting dock of a tournament. Where I used to think that was a hindrance to performance, I now think it's kind of a performance enhancing drug.

[Brady]

@scotchipman. Don't be talking about your driver like that!!!

[RichardDoane]

@ntx - I feel no shame when I'm swimming ashore after a slalom pass gone awry, it happens to everyone eventually and you need the mental toughness to keep things in perspective, it is only waterskiing BTW

[A_B]

No way that you can't tell me and @Brady that we had an awesome day at the lake when we make all our deepwater starts.

[Chef23]

Failure is built into the sport every round in a tournament ends with failure either a fall or a missed buoy.

[MattP]

There is always another 1/2 buoy, another point and another foot. We always fail, but there is some satisfaction along the way.

[LeonL]

I do believe that there are some people that get so nervous, or whatever, that they just can't perform in a tournament setting. We once had a pretty decent skier who skied at our site who really didn't want to ski a practice set when there was someone present that he didn't know well. Then talk about when he skied a tournament, wow. About the comment concerning a short course and PP boat speed. It's kinda all relative. Sure, the calibration would cause you to set the baseline lower, but with balls coming up sooner it all balances out pretty much.

[ntx]

@richarddoane My feel shame comment was a failed attempt at humor. I stole the line from a hockey movie (mystery alaska) where a tv commentator is talking to a russian player about how he feels after he is called for a penality. "you skate to box for two mins you feel shame" Sorry no more bad jokes.

[ski6jones]

When I started skiing tournaments last year I would be gasping for air after 3 passes, where in practice I'd ski 10 passes easy with no troubles. I mentioned it to someone on the dock, the said "BREATH". Duh!! Difference between tournament and practice.

[jimbrake]

Two round slalom tournament this past weekend my 14 yo B2 skier runs a PB of 2 @ 32 off in the first round, which equaled what he's been doing consistently in practice lately. He was happy, but not crazy happy. Second round he runs 2 @ 32 again and after a bobble, was trying his hardest to get to 3, but ran just inside. He was mad that he didn't get 3. So, happiness over PBs doesn't last long. You are always looking ahead to the next improvement. Now he is looking ahead to running 32 and probably won't be happy until he does. Then, not for long. I imagine even Nate is starting to get frustrated at running "just 2" at 43.

[boarditup]

There are not too many sports that run until failure. My daughters in field events are (were) high jumpers. Same kind of event. It messes with your head and very few athletes can deal with inevitable failure. Slalom is only that kind of event. Every time you go out you fail..... What kind of people are we, really?

[Chef23]

@ntx I think that movie quote is from Slapshot.

[Brady]

@ntx I would not prefer to feel shame when I fail, or even disappointment. Failure is a fantastic tool to let you learn from your experiences and quite frankly, what I look at is the success I had for, 1, being out there and pushing myself, 2, doing the best I can do and stretching as far as I can stretch. @AB and @richarddoanne put it perfectly. The happiness comes from the journey and not the end result. Guarantee when Nate or some other elite athlete breaks the world record, that satisfaction will only be short lived! Like @MattP said, there is always another 1/2 buoy and they are now "failures" again chasing that damn ball once again.

 

In summary, I am skiing, I am doing my best and I am constantly pushing myself. That goes for tournaments as well as with my ski buddies at the lake. I am only accountable to me.....and AB, but that is a different thread! :)