Why tournament scores matter and or how everyone runs 38 on the web

[Horton]

There is a running joke that everyone runs 38 on the web. To me it brings home the reality that unless there are judges in the towers and one in the boat it really does not count.

 

Bummer for me, I think I have run more 38s in practice this year than ever before but not once in a tournament. Not one of them counts. Zero. Zip. Painful.

 

Sucks for me that @OB and @JDarwin knocked one down this year and I have not… guess I need to get cracking.

 

(if your magic pass is 35off or 15off it is the same as 38 is for me. This applies to everyone.)

[SkiJay]

I understand what you are saying @Horton, but writing "It really does not count ... Not one of them counts. Zero. Zip," though true on record, may read a bit harsh to some.

 

Tournament scores do and should trump practice scores, no question. But you can and do run 38, albeit in practice. You are still an excellent skier. Invalidating this accomplishment so thoroughly kind of insults everyone who has clawed their way from 26mph into shortline but cares little for tournament skiing. It even implies your course and driver(s) aren't the real deal.

 

I know this isn't what you are saying specifically, but it is how this widespread sentiment among tournament skiers comes across to nontournament skiers ... the vast majority of skiers btw, who work really hard on their passion. And excluding the majority of skiers from legitimacy seems a strange way to grow our sport.

[6balls]

Practice success matters to one's progression which doesn't always equate to tourney success. I like to hear about skier's practice PB and tourney PB, but they are different animals.

 

There is also something to be said for tourney frequency and how that ups the odds of running one's toughest pass in a tourney.

 

I will ski 6 tourney rounds this year...I may or may not get a 38 despite a great practice year at 38. If I ran 30 tourney rounds...I'd be shocked if I didn't have some 38's and may have a 3 score avg into 39 despite whiffing the majority of my tourney 38's.

 

It's all relative. @horton if you are running 'em lots in practice (on ZO), I have to think just a matter of time before you are snagging one in most multi-round tourneys in good conditions.

[boarditup]

Some skiers (people) require external validation of their performance. Some skiers (people) ski for the sheer joy of skiing. My most favorite memories of skiing do not involve an award or a score, but the feel of the ski under my feet and sharing the joy of the other skiers - especially my kids. Most skiers have elements of both at various times. My PB happens to be in a tournament, but that is not my favorite skiing memory.

[Razorskier1]

I tend to feel like @Horton. I've heard people say they've run -38 in practice, and that's great. Was it straight through or was it the second or third try? Seconds and thirds don't count in tournament. It is just tougher to put a notch on the bedpost in tournament skiing. Like everyone, I measure my probabilities of running -38 in tournament based on my success in practice, but until it is in the book of record with a tournament score, I don't feel it is as legit.

[Chef23]

Running 38 off is like a 300 yard drive in golf. On the web everyone says they can do it but in real life very few people can.

 

This year my off the dock PB in practice pushed to 5@35 off from 4 and my tournament PB moved from 3.5@35 to 4@35. I did run one 35 off in practice but have yet to duplicate it.

 

My tournament PB was in a multiple round event where I ran it in the second round. I said after the day that I was glad it wasn't regionals or nationals because I missed my 32 off pass in the first round.

 

I agree that tournaments are where the real scores count but I get the same thrill out of running a new pass in practice. I ski about the same off the dock in tournaments as I do in practice but I am definitely more nervous in tournaments.

 

My tournament season is over and I am heading back to the gym to get ready to run 35 in a tournament next year.

[Jody_Seal]

Deep water starts!!! My goal not to miss!

[Joeprunc]

@Horton, so what you are saying is I can't brag about how I finally am able to run 15' off at 32 mph this summer because I didn't do it in a sanctioned tournament? Sheesh....sure know how to take the fun out of skiing.

[Horton]

@SkiJay yea it is a bit harsh. Clearly every time a skiers sets a practice PB or runs that hard pass it is a huge deal. My message should be "It means a lot more when it is official" or "no one can call BS when it is official"

 

In my 3 event days I did a couple of things in practice I wish I could prove with a scorebook.

 

[Razorskier1]

@OB -- go off the dock at -38 at your site -- then there won't be rollers. I did that on my second set a week ago and it was actually kind of fun. I didn't run it first try, but did run it third try. Either way, I found that I approached the pass much more calmly when I treated it like an opener. Just a way to mix it up.

 

I thought about switching to Reflex when I was at Andy's. Glad I didn't. It took me a season to figure out the danged Stradas!

[MrJones]

If you run a PB in practice it feels great and is an acomplishment. Enjoy it! When you do it in a tournament the pressure to perform is greater therefore the feeling of overcoming said pressure makes the acomplishment even greater. Ditto on the level of tournament. Nationals>Regionals>Normal weekend.

 

I don't see this line of thinking as taking anything away from the "practice PB". It is just that overcoming the nerves, etc of doing it in the tournament setting makes the physical accomplishment even more enjoyable.

[ntx]

Back about two or three months ago, I posted that "you are only as good as your last tournament pass" I got tons of negative feedback. Nice to know that our great leader @horton thinks the same way. On second thought...maybe that's not so good.

 

[Horton]

@joeprunc

 

Kind of what everyone else is saying. Kick butt in practice= great. Kick butt on a tournament = even better.

 

By the way if you are actually moving your practice PB up - all us guys at shorter lines are jealous. I am not sure my practice PB will ever get reset. You have a lot to be happy about.

 

 

[Joeprunc]

I definitely know what you mean....I was just trying to poke a little fun at the fact I probably will never enter a tournament, so I will never be able to officially claim a PB ;).

[gjohnson]

I'm jealous of the boys and girls skiers who have the ability to up their tournament pb's at every tournament.

[Skoot1123]

If I go out next year and run a tournament and make my opener, I'll be stoked. I would think the nerves and pressure to perform in a tournament add an element to skiing that practice can't duplicate. That is where @horton is right, same thing (sking) two separate ways to measure. Some folks thrive on pressure, some folks thrive on just having fun with no pressure. Just have fun is the name of the game!

 

I'd rather be skiing right now.

[ski6jones]

I'm much happier getting more consistent on my harder passes in practice, than knocking one off "accidentally" in a tournament. Better consistency in practice will translate to better tournament scores eventually, without a doubt.

[Bulldog]

It's like how in the movies everyone can shoot hand guns with amazing accuracy!!! There is a saying "no one knows your a dog on the Internet" (a picture of a dog at a computer is above it). Real scores are just that real scores. Ask Al Bundy he will tell you he was a hero at Polk High School! Lol

[John Brooks]

To me, learning the strategies of skiing in tournaments is just an added challenge of water skiing. It is one thing to learn to ski well, it is another to learn how to put yourself under the additional pressure of performing off the dock in a tournament and come close to skiing at the level you feel capable of. For me it is the matter of mental focus and endurance.

[mwetskier]

might not hurt to remember most sports especially water skiing exist because guys who cant run 38 off in a tournament or hit 300 yard drives on the linx spend a lot more money funding the sport than those guys who can do all that. may be telling them there accomplishments dont count for much is not the best pr move in the world.

[mwetskier]

@OB - isnt there good pr and bad pr and wouldnt you say good pr is always better than bad pr? google slalom water skiing and linx to forums come up on the first page. on the internet information is instant and every where so how would a small group of super good skiers gain any thing from telling the much larger group of average week end skiers that there personal successes mean nothing? tournament skiers grow out of recreational skiers but i dont think telling the recreational skiers there not doing anything impressive is the best way to increase interest in tournaments. just my un informed opinion but thats how i feel.

[Horton]

@OB 40 thousand visitors to BallOfSpray last month

[The_MS]

OB Rocks

[Horton]

@mwetskier This thread is not about how practice scores (or your skiing) does not matter. It is about how the challenge of tournaments is even greater. Heck if you are having fun I am for you.

 

Part of the challenge of running this site is balancing the content between the guys that run 47 off and they guys who dream of running 6 balls at any speed and rope. I can not say I have cracked the code to that challenge. It swings both ways. This thread is from my perspective of my skiing. The next thread may fit your thinking better. In the end skiing is the hobby / sport of everyone here.

 

[swc5150]

Does Chuck Norris ski tournaments? If not, who's going tell him his PB doesn't count?! ;-)

[MISkier]

I'm guessing some on this forum will tell Chuck that. After all, it's not like he can teleport through the internet and punch you in the face from your computer - or can he?

[Ilivetoski]

@OB do we want to grow the sport so much that we have adverse effects? No. HOWEVER we do want to grow it enough to ensure that when I am an adult (currently freshman in college), that we can run tournaments. Have enough people that ski companies don't have any threat of going out of business and that they have enough sales to fund more R&D and thus create better skis. Same goes for boats. Do we want to become so overwhelmed that there are backorders on skis and you have to wait until mid season to get one? No. We do however need to grow enough to ensure that the sport does not suffer.

[Than_Bogan]

Minor note: A big reason that boats and skis are so expensive is that the volume is terrible, making it impossible to spread the costs of R&D or to justify investment in production methods that are incrementally cheaper. Also, larger markets bring in more competitors, which drives margins and thus prices down.

 

I feel pretty confident that a big increase in the market would reduce the cost of skiing equipment, most likely substantially.

[ral]

There are also at least two types of training PB's. Know some skiers that would run e.g. 32 off once a week while training, while being all over the place @28 off and going for it in every set even when not running the previous pass. Then there are skiers that consistently would run close to the same PB in training when shortening, which might not be that often. Usually, the first type of skier would have a tournament PB and average far below their training PB. The second one usually closer...

[A_B]

I wouldn't tell Chuck Norris that his practice scores mean crud.... but then again, he doesn't practice.

[GAJ0004]

@Horton someone told me a long time ago if you come within 4 buoys of your average practice score you had a good day. There are 10 slalom course skiers on my lake, and I am the only one who does tournaments. One guy has got into 38off at 32MPH(he is below speed for his age) and has no interest in entering tournaments. He skis for the enjoyment and the exercise, and to get quality time with his sons. I never did tournaments regularly until 2011. I would always ski for the fun and exercise. I did 2 or 3 tournaments in the 1990's, but did not stay with it because my water time was already limited at the time. I also enjoy teaching others to ski. In the last 5 years I have taught 5 people to ski the course. One of them ran the course for the first time at age 61. I think it is a load of BS that practice scores don't count....

I was at a clinic a few years ago at Dave's Pond where Daniel Kennedy was the instructor(he used to coach April Coble-Eller). I was skiing 36 MPH at the time and got into 32 off cold off the dock. The boat driver asked me why I never entered tournaments. I told him I was not good enough to compete(didn't have access to scores at the time). He told me I may not get to nationals, but he told me I may be pretty competitive at the state or possibly regional levels. I decided to give it a try. Richard Lambert told me a while back that skiing tournaments makes you a better skier. I have improved my skiing since I have started doing tournaments, and it has been more fun since I have been able to connect with other skiers. In Ohio I feel like I am a lone voice in the woods, well not so much now since I have met other skiers through tournaments. Practice scores do count.... Only 1% of all the people who put on water skis can actually run the course.

 

[crashman]

the only guy who provided me motivation to want to ski tournaments (because he irritated me so much I wanted to beat him) has been excommunicated from BOS

[6balls]

I will say this...I have just about zippo motivation to go ski a 1 rounder. Travel, cost of my personal time, lodging, gas etc just not worth it to ski once when I could enjoy a day at home with the family after skiing two sets early a.m.

3 rounder, or better yet 6 round dbl over a weekend...ok now we're talking 3 sets of skiing each day for 6 total at a great site, hanging out with some other skiers, judging, cracking a few beers at days end. I can do that one. All those rounds give me a better chance of really smoking one of 'em, too.

On that note, I don't understand the 3 round avg dictating avg score for ranking regardless of how many rounds skied. There are some total studs (chicks too) that can show up and hang up a big score at any time. There are others ranked at studs(chicks) level who skied a bazillion rounds just to cough up 3 decent scores to be averaged. It's not a big deal...just don't know why that is the case and why it changed from "EP" days where you run the big score, you're "in" for nat's. Probably plus/minus to be weighed and no ideal solution.

[fu_man]

Actually...I ran -39 on the web.

[Daryn_Dean]

My tournament PB is in fact a greater achievement than my practice PB, but both are equally important to me personally for different reasons. For the record, my PB is AK-47 off.

[Than_Bogan]

An attempt to understand somebody elses goals and motivation is doomed from the start.

[A_B]

I had the same attitude as @6balls, and skied in '97 Ohio State once, finishing 3rd, skied in Regional a couple times, last time getting crunched at 5@35, was qualified for Nat's and never went, but looking back, wish that I would have gone at least once.

[ToddF]

I don't do tournaments, yet.

But, I agree wholeheartedly that practice scores don't count for anything, except to give you an indication of what you could possibly do at a tournament.

Many sports are like that though: bowling, golf, gymnastics, track, etc...

 

And if you ask me, I still will say that my best is 3@38 even if it doesn't count

let's see @than do the math on that one. haha

[jipster43]

It's not the expense of Regionals or Nationals that I object to. It's the opportunity cost. Up here in Mantana the summer is too darn short to sacrifice so much time for just one round. However, I look forward to going to both once my skiing merits it.

[skiray]

This may be the reason why I can't run 38 on the web or in person....

 

Typically, my tournament scores (averages) are higher than my practice scores (averages off the dock). If it isn't right in practice, I let go. In a tournament I hold on till physics takes over.

[gregy]

I may never run 38. So it would me a lot to me at any speed etc. at a tournament would be unbelievable. My all time PB was at a tournament, don't quite understand that one. Never did that well before at tournaments, everything came together just right that day and I had been practicing a lot leading up to it. One thing I can say, no one going to run 38 in a tournament without a lot of practice and your probably not going to run it for the first time in a tournament (unless your @ob).

[OTF]

I just ran a clean -47 at 61 mph after reading this thread........in the dark........without getting wet........come to think of it I didn't even have my rear foot in my boot and my ZO setting was on CN2, thats right Chuck Norris 2. That's gotta count for something even if it wasnt in a tournament.

 

 

 

 

[webbdawg99]

It's all in the perceived tone.

Happy bc you are skiing well and passionate about the sport? Awesome!

Being boastful? I'm checking your tournament scores!

[Horton]

Wow! I hit a nerve. Silly me was thinking out loud about my own skiing and managed to offend a few of you. I certainly did not intend to state that if you do not ski tournaments your skiing has no value. That is roughly what came out but that is not what I intended to say. Not the first time in my life I have put my foot in my mouth.

 

If you were legitimately offended, I sincerely apologize. As the owner of this site I should chose my words much more carefully.

 

If you have been reading this site for long you have read the phrase "We all struggle at our own level". This site is here for all skiers.

 

[RichardDoane]

@bruce55 - sorry, but I couldn't help but hit the "dislike", each to his own on why they ski, or don't ski tournaments, there's an upside to everything if you're looking for it, on one hand I agree with @ob about keeping to the private site, but on the other I'd like to see all the related companies prosper from an increase in the skiing public, but either way, one of my pet peeves is people babbling about their prowess with no tournament scores to back them up

[Razorskier1]

I just feel like tournaments are important to me because it motivates me to work on the next line length. As a total aside, my tournament average has been equal or better than my practice average for years. In 2007 I ran my first ever -38 in a tournament, not in practice. In all the years since my tournament average has probably exceeded my practice average.

[Avon]

Long time visitor first time post... Practice and the term "scores" and "PB's" are oxymorons! You can't legitimately have a "score" in practice or a "PB" when it may be your 4th look at the same pass or help from a driver or your own lake etc. I've seen guys shadow a pass and claim it or dial down a Perfect Pass weight or spend three sets and an entire day in order to claim a "loop" in practice. That is what is b.s. A tournament is the great equalizer whether you ski for yourself or to compete with others.

 

My advice is to sign up for your next nearest tournament or forfeit you "coaching card" and "opinion" regardless of your ability!

[bishop8950]

Like @Horton, I am a little surprised this thread ended up heated based on where it started, but fun stuff!

 

There are clearly those that value tournament validation of our personal performance and those that don't. There should be little debate that a tournament score is a legit validation and the bigger the tournament the more validating. Even still, many don't "need" it and good for them.

 

The other reason to ski tournaments is to compete. I know 90% of the time its not really competitive and we ski against ourselves. It is however much more fun if there is even one other person there driving you to compete in any way. The primary driver for me personally is to compete with the other guys. If I ski local class Cs where there may be no one to compete with is mostly to "practice tournaments" as well as for fun and PBs. But I really want the tournaments where other guys are there to push me to compete. I am fortunate enough for that to be at the National/BigDawg level and those tournaments are super addictive!

 

Would I feel the same if I were running longer lines in a local tournament chasing my ski partner, yes but admittedly less so. Would I be less likely to travel far for tournament, definately yes. Would I stop skiing tournaments all together, doubt it

[swc5150]

Are there really that many people on the web who are claiming BS PB's, and why do you guys care if someone did? From what I see on BOS, it's only the guys skiing tournaments who post their PB's for us to see, not a bunch of rec ballers making claims. When I'm enjoying a day with our EZ Ed dropped in, the last thing I'm thinking of is whether or not my skiing is legit in the eyes of people like @Avon, who apparently think I'm not entitled to an opinion.

[Than_Bogan]

I began skiing tournaments when 34/-15 was a good day for me. I had low expectations, was very nervous, and couldn't beat anyone except maybe a few kids. And I enjoyed the hell out of it!

 

Today I run -35 in most rounds and am capable of getting a -38 done. I'm a little less nervous, and most weekends I beat everybody. My expectations are WAY higher and I walk away from at least 75% of my tournaments feeling that I skied poorly.

 

And I still enjoy the hell out of it.