What the heck is the deal with -28?

[jhughes]

I've been battling 28 all year. Perfect example was this morning- Ran 22/32mph as an opener a few times, felt great, then ran a nice 22/34mph, cut it to 28 and it was all over, as usual.

 

I feel like my gates were good but it's just SO different from 22 and that's no joke. I'm sure I could be a bit more stacked, etc. but we're talking about running a previous pass, then having no chance at the next pass so it's not a slight adjustment we're talking about here. I'm just doing something way, way wrong. Has to be a timing thing of some sort that is majorly different.

 

So,

 

1. Has anyone RECENTLY overcome the -28 barrier, and what got you there?

 

2. How much relevance do the previous 2 lengths have to 28? Seriously? I know purists out there are going to balk at this comment, saying it's all the same, clean up your earlier passes, etc. but I'd disagree with anyone saying that running 15 and 22 all day will make 28 easy unless you've already run 28 and know whatever you need to know to run it, to then work on at easier lengths. I think once you are running shortline slalom, going back to 15 and 22 are doable and don't seem THAT different but when you're going uphill from 22 to 28 and have never run 28, it's just a huge mountain to climb so take it easy on me here.

 

3. Has anyone just said "screw it" and kept the yellow loop on until they figured it out? Sacrificed a few sets to just "get" 28?

[jipster43]

At 28 you start to hit the wall where technique trumps athleticism. My guess is you aren't as stacked as you think you are and may be going flat at some point at the gate. Make certain neither of these are true and your elbows are pinned to your vest and you 'll be surprised how the pass just falls into place.

[OTF]

@jhughes FWIW I think it helps to go the other way, throw it on the green for a few sets. Break up the routine. Have fun for a few sets then go back to hacking away at legit passes.

[Than_Bogan]

There can be no doubt that -28 is fundamentally different. I must admit it was more than 15 years ago that I was crossing that barrier, so "no" on question #1. But I do remember vividly that feeling of "How could this be possible?" even after I started running -22 quite a bit.

 

1) The fundamental issue is leverage position. At -15 and -22, there is a relatively long time that you can leverage against the boat, so even a pretty inefficient position may get the job done. At -28, this is where your pull zone begins to be noticably shorter, because it's not long after you cross the centerline that you begin to travel more up-course than cross-course.

 

This means you MUST generate sufficient leverage and build speed like crazy over a much shorter distance than you are accustomed to.

 

Also, make sure you set the right amplitude right from the start by getting up as high on the boat as you possibly can on your pullout.

 

2) It's not all the same. BUT it's damn difficult to make the technical improvement that you need to make while banging your head at -28. What you have to do is figure out what you need to do at -28 (see #1), and then religiously drill on it at -15 and -22, even though you don't HAVE to do it at -15 and -22 to run them. When you can leverage so hard off the ball* that you need to edge change at the first wake at -15 (like Seth does in his famous video), then -28 will be a breeze.

 

*Hopefully it goes without saying to let the ski finish first, but once it's time to load, you have to do so quickly and efficiently, accelerating like a mad fool.

 

3) I wouldn't recommend that, no. But I also wouldn't be afraid to tie on -32 every so often. Now the pull zone is even shorter and inefficient position is punished even faster. This can paint a giant spotlight on what you need to go back and work on at -22 and -28.

[jhughes]

So, should it feel like the load is much more intense at 28 or should it feel easier? I'm talking about literally the tension in the rope behind the boat. Is there any chance that I could be OVER pulling/reacting at 28 or am I definitely being too weak against it?

[9400]

You could very well be over pulling or loading too hard too soon or trying to establish too much angle into or out of the boat centerline.

 

[9400]

Think of a path, too far to the right of that path and the rope becomes too tight, too far to the left and there's not enough angle to get where you want to go, right in the middle is the yellow brick road.

[MISkier]

Until this year, I would only be able to run 28 a handful of times each season. @AB, @ShaneH and others viewed some video of mine and noticed my turn in for the gate was way too late (among many other things). Most of my problems were related to the gate and one ball. I skied with @AB last September and these were the things that were identified:

 

1. "Hide from the boat through the wakes". For me, this is most important at the gate. I can do it the rest of the pass without too much trouble. Get on edge and lean away from the boat with good position - head away with hips up, arms straight, shoulders back. I actually think this phrase to myself to help me through the gates.

2. Make sure the edge change and reach are two separate, distinct motions, with the edge change first. Roll the ski while two hands are on the handle, then do the reach. Don't go flat and give everything back by skiing straight at the ball. I was just giving the rope back to the boat and going flat into one ball with a lot of slack. The article from Bruce Butterfield on handle control helps here.

3. Hip up to handle, especially on the gate (and the pullout for the gate) so that the tempo is set for the rest of the pass. Watch out for loading too quickly at the turn in for the gate.

4. Knees and ankles flexed slightly. Set this tempo also during your pullout for the gates. If you pull out with tension, anxiety, and straight legs (because, after all, it is that "new pass"), it's unlikely that you will miraculous flex and soften the knees when you need to.

5. Don't pull too long, especially through the gate. Also, if you moved your reference point for the turn into the gate, don't forget to move your pullout reference point basically the same amount.

 

@AB also reset my fin to stock, as I had some issues with how the ski was riding (evident in my video). I think that helped a lot as well.

 

The result: I ran more 28 passes that September day than I did all that season. It's carried forward into this year with very good results and more tournament 28 passes than ever. Next up: 32 off. I'm only halfway through that pass so far.

 

The big difference for me between 28 and 22 was the gate and one ball.

 

During my frustrating last season, I always warmed up before trying 28, but would stay on that loop for the rest of the set in an attempt to beat it into submission. That didn't work and I made the most headway by having my issues identified and coached.

 

The rest of my problems are all related to approaching the pass confidently, relaxed, and with a clear, focused mind. That has been the toughest thing to overcome lately.

[GOODESkier]

Without a little video it is hard to really say what the issue might be...... I would ask, as you shorten line, what do you think needs to happen at the gate? Meaning, do you turn in earlier or later as the line gets shorter?

[Than_Bogan]

@jhughes I hate to think of it as strong or weak, because I always land in the latter bin! And it's absolutely possible to overpull, although even more common to try to commit to an impossible angle and be unable to hold on.

 

That's why I keep throwing out the word "efficient." There's a much smaller window to build speed at -28 than there is at -15 and -22, so you need to use every moment of that opportunity to resist the boat and translate its pull into cross-course speed. If all your muscles are lined up right down that rope, -28 may actually feel *easier* because the geometry gives you the opportunity to accelerate much more in less time. But if you aren't getting everything you can from the hookup to the centerline, then you are effed -- there is no opporunity to add to it after that, and you'll either be too narrow or too fast (or usually both!)

 

Fwiw, this is perhaps the fundamental barrier to EVERY remaining line length. I am currently trying to figure out how the hell to be efficient enough during what feels like about 0.001 seconds of pull zone at -39, and then harness that speed properly during the outbound arc.

[John Brooks]

@jhughes I agree with what's been said. Find your keys and focus on them every time. Some video would be your best bet and quickest way to find the solution, whether you post the video here or just a little self assessment. I know for me, every time I video, I get some benefit. I usually watch it frame by frame to see what I'm doing (or not doing).

 

To me it all really boils down to angle and speed.

 

As the rope gets shorter it seems there is always some technique to polish, whether it is getting higher on the boat for your gate turn in, keeping the ski in front of you across course, a nice extended reach in the turn so your ski finishes, or any of the number of techinical items we all try to follow.

[Than_Bogan]

@MISkier Excellent list! I especially like #2 (and even more so after seeing the video below). It's theoretically possible to have a fantastic trip through the pull zone and then throw it all away by reaching too soon and skiing flat.

 

Aside: I think that's why -38 is a such a barrier for almost everyone. I claim it's the first rope length where the outbound portion is even more critical to get right than the inbound portion.

[jhughes]

I'll get some video next time out.

 

Here's an attempt from earlier this year. Pretty typical. Yes, I CRUSH and fold over at 1-ball but the pass is over before that, believe me. Gotta be something in the pull-out and turn-in, and probably some pre-turn stuff too.

 

[SkiJay]

@jhughes The answer is definitely technique. The closer you get to technique that is efficient enough to take you into shortline, the easier -28 gets. Over the last couple of years, I've gone from barely wrestling my way through 28 to stroking them as an opener. I'm not stronger or trying harder. It's the structure and the efficiency of movement @Than_Bogan is describing that will get you there. For me, it was improving my off-side stack, better handle control, and moving my edge change earlier. Enjoy the journey =)

[Than_Bogan]

@jhughes Unless it's a trick of the camera angle, you need to go WAY higher on the pullout.

 

What that will allow you do is use the entire pull zone on your very first pull. In that video, you're starting your leverage when the leverage zone is nearly over! The result is you don't have enough speed for a solid edge change, and instead you are riding flat in order to get the width. But riding flat is always wasted space.

 

I actually don't think you are far AT ALL from running -28: you're much closer than I expected from your self-description. Higher pullout, start efficient right from the start, and then you'll able to eliminate that flat spot into one, and you'll be smoking it!

[ForrestGump]

Don't pull in to initiate the turn. The ski will stop it's rotation every time you pull in. Also, there's no way to maintain the stack when you pull in. I watched 10 seconds and saw you pull in at the gate turn in and at 1 and then you're done because the ski pointed at the boat on the backside of 1. When you pull in at the gate turn in, you lose your hips behind you. Freeze frame at the point that your front foot gets to the white water on your gate shot. Your right shoulder is noticeably ahead of your hips. This gives you no power to resist the pull of the boat. The boat then pulls you over the top of the ski on a shallow angle to the next ball. Concentrate on relaxing the handle down and not pulling it into the chest and squeeze your butt cheeks together. We all go through this same thing at new line lengths for a while.

[jhughes]

@Than_Bogan hopefully it's that easy! My fear is turning in on slack which is what keeps me narrow, I think. There's nothing worse than seeing the boat fly through the gate and thinking "holy crap I've gotta hustle!" while reeling in slack. Gotta figure out how to stay wide/up and not get slack.

 

@ShaneH very good stuff as well, thanks.

 

You guys are rocking this morning! Thank you so much for the input. I'll have newer video soon.

[SkiJay]

@jhughes If you maintain a little rope tension during your glide in your pullout, slack will not be a problem. To maintain this tension, you have to maintain a slight outward edge with your ski until the turn in. On video, you shouldn't be able to see your ski for fine spray during the glide.

[Jordan]

1) Never be on a flat ski, this why you are getting slack and why you are running late...you should either leaning away from the boat or turning.

2) Elbows tucked in at your sides

3) Handle low, against your hips

 

If you touch up these few things, you will run -28 in no time. I agree with @Than_Bogan, you are closer to running it than you think!

[A_B]

All good stuff to follow, wider and gradual turn in for gate. Your initial setup with handle looks nice and low but then you reach up toward the boat and pull in the handle. Try just moving from right hip to left hip, and as I like to say, hide from the boat. This means lean away (not back) equal pressure on feet. You will adjust foot pressure as the feeling comes to you, but the key is to not load the back foot up. We want ski tip in water and grabbing angle.

 

As pointed out above, be patient in the turn at one ball until the outside hip swings under the rope and hookup right hand and be ready to rocket out of there!

 

28 and shorter it becomes more critical to have the ski finish and grab angle out of the ball.

 

I also am a firm believer in slow speed training at 28 off. It reveals all the leverage weaknesses that longer line lets you get away with.

[kstateskier]

I will add to getting further up on the boat on your pullout. I noticed when you make the move from glide to your turn in you let your hands and handle come up away from your body. This is a wasted movement and in order to bring the handle and hands back into your hips you're falling back on your ski. Some of the best skiers keep that handle low and have strategic movements even at glide and turn in. Parrish does a nice job of this.

 

This does two things.

1.) it takes up valuable time you need to be pulling through the leverage zone and

2.) it doesn't put you in a good strong stacked position to leverage in the leverage zone.

 

The hardest thing about 28 is finishing that turn at 1 ball. Fix your glide and gate problems and you'll be in a better position to finish a turn at 1. From there on 28 is an easy pass.

 

Good luck you aren't far from running 28.

[Waternut]

Lots of good information so far. Since I overcame 28 off within the last month or so, maybe I can help shed a different perspective. First off, after spending the majority of my time at 15 and 22 off, I certainlny feel like I'm running late at 28 off coming out of the buoy but that's not really true. A good pull with decent technique gets me back in the game while being wide and early. When I'm using decent technique, I really feel like I can make more mistakes coming out of the ball at 28 off than 15 and 22 off and still stay in the game but if my technique is off that day, it's over very quickly.

 

I spent a couple days behind my own boat on open water at 28 off. I could feel it and noticed on videos that I was getting terrible angle at 28 off. For me, there was a trust issue in both myself and the boat. At that line length, you get more of a slingshot effect and it took me feeling that slingshot and knowing that I can cross the wakes under control while knowing the boat will be there to support me once I start my lean. Next time I hit the course, I went from 1-2 buoys at 28 off with no chance for 3 to 4-5 buoys under control but making stupid mistakes because I was too anxious to run the pass. I still have to be in the right mindset to run 28 off but I feel like it's possible now instead of no hope like before. You may even want to keep the speed at 32mph for a set so that you can feel less scared and defensive.

[gregy]

Same as Kstateskier, I think lifting the arms at the gates is causing you to rock back on the tail. Keep the handle low and more on front of the ski and you should be able to get more angle, get wider but don't over load early, load the line progressively . Like shaneh says you pull in weight goes back, ski stops turning (weighted tail - less angle, ski doesn't turn and more effort). Use the front of the ski to make carving turns. I know you do this at longer lines, you have a nice smooth rhythm there but I think body position becomes critical at 28.

[BlueSki]

Than et al. have great points, especially about starting wide so that you can get wide. The other thing to consider is your body position through the turn. @ShaneH pointed out your body position through the gates. Look at how that problem is exacerbated by the time you get to 1 ball and watch the path of your right shoulder going into and around 1 ball. There is little counter rotation so that the problem that @ShaneH points out only gets worse and not corrected, leaving you short on leverage and ultimately short on angle. I personally find myself skiing one pass technically very well and then cutting the rope and everything flys out the window, the technique goes to hell in a handbasket. I have to remind myself, that yes, technique becomes more important with a shorter rope. Sometimes it takes a less than gentle reminder from someone in the boat, but then, the next pass becomes much easier.

[Chef23]

Lots of good stuff. I like a couple of things already laid out be wider on your pullout another thing that might help is a longer pullout rather than a harder pullout to get width.

 

@AB hit on a good point on your gates with get your hands to your left hip when you get in your stack. That is one of my keys as I am working on -35.

 

This may be different than @AB but I would like to see more intensity or lean away from the boat on your gates. I think the combination of your width and lean leave you narrow and fast at 1 ball which caused the problems coming out of 1.

 

Keep at it it will all click soon.

[ChadW]

@jhughs I was a fifteenoff follower, thanks for your work on that site.

I am currently skiing 34mph with a practice PB of 4@32off. Your video above looks like me from 1 year ago, maybe even earlier this season. I ran 28 for the first time at the end of the 2011 season. During the 2012 season I was able to run 28 more frequently, but inconsistently. This year, with the help of great ski partners, I've realized I was skiing 28 and 32 very narrow. The main reasons for my narrow skiing were:

1. Coming off edge too early

2. Riding a flat ski in the pre-turn.

3. Poorly stacked offside

All of which you seem to be doing in your video above. I've spent this season trying to correct those.

So, here is what I think about now:

1. Throwing my trailing shoulder back in my pull. This gets me stacked (hips up, shoulders back and open to the boat, arms straight). I know there are a lot of ways to say this, but thinking "shoulder back" works for me. I also concentrate on maintaining this position well off the second wake. This helps me stay on edge all the way through the wakes.

2. Hold onto the handle until I'm at the buoy line (this also keeps me from coming off edge early and prevents me from riding flat). I went to West Palm and watched the Big Dawg this year, I was amazed at how long those guys hold onto the handle. My ski buddies also tell me I ski the 2nd half of the course better than the 1st half because I get late and can't ride flat. Holding onto the handle gives me the sensation of being late, even though it creates a wide and early turn.

 

So the voice in my head when I ski says: Throw your shoulder back...hold on, hold on, hold on...ok turn...then repeat. I can only think about 2 things at most when I ski, Shoulder Back and Hold On.

 

As far as running other lines, I felt 22 was too different, so as the season progressed I quit running 22. I always run 34.2mph. If I have a bad 2ball (my offside), I shadow 3 and then run 4,5,6. This is how I've learn to run 28 wide, early and easy.

[andjules]

@jhughes I'm with you. I'm doing a lot better @ -28 this year, not as consistent as I'd like, but managed to finally run -32 this year for the first time. All at 34mph.

I warm up @ -22 and I can screw up all over the place and it's still easy. -28 is not nearly as forgiving.

I'm RFF, so for me it's all about a tightline ball 1. Ok, I never get a tightline ball 1, so really it's about 2ft of slack vs 5ft. Things that helped:

- after centerline/2nd wake:

- - elbows tight to vest, release later, release slowly

- - others will say that edge change is the result of other things, but I have to say that when I concentrate on letting the ski roll under me faster, it helps

- coming into 1st wake: straighter back leg. When I watched video of myself I'd have a stacked position before the wake but would absorb a lot with my knees at the wake. Being a little stiffer/straighter-legged I found I carried more cross-course speed, got out wider.

[A_B]

@Chef23, we are in sync about leaning away. I like to say "hide from the boat" = lean away. I tell beginners to try to get your upper body 6" lower as you get into the wake when in reality, they are merely staying the same but not letting the boat stand them up.

[LCZ]

@jhughes, I agree with the above suggestions to run some -28 passes at 32 mph. Like @ChadW said -22 is way different and you can get away with some inefficiencies. We've been trying to tell @scarletarrow this all season...

[skiboyny]

I was stuck more seasons than I care to admit at 15 and 22 off. I could run 28 off hit and miss for the last 3 seasons but I more less hacked through it and it never felt like a pass that I owned. For me the breakthrough was a combination of several things. Getting wide on the boat which many have mentioned. Not losing that width. At 28 off I basically let the boat pull me through the gates, (very progressively) holding good body position, giving one quick tug right in the middle of the wake. Less seemed to be more for me. At the turn I had to really concentrate on extending for a long time and letting the ski rotate around me, regardless where I was at the ball. This gave me a tight line with no slack. Your video shows you bringing the handle in before the ski has turned rather than skiing around to it. After going around 1 with a nice tight line it was really business as usual. I never missed 28 off this season and using these methods ran a full 32 off on my second try ever!(at a reduced speed) I am absolutely thrilled with my progress this season. I only ever tried 32 off about a half dozen tries first time this year and ran it twice. I'm sure If I can start off close to where I left off I'll be able to bring 32 up to speed next year. A coach I had years ago told me "one day it will just click" It took about 10 years for that to happen! I'm glad it finally did. Hope this might help you...

[Chef23]

@AB I see your point and it makes sense. When you said hide from the boat I was concerned you were talking about not working hard behind the boat.

[A_B]

Nope. Lean away and DON'T be light on the line.

[jhughes]

Had high hopes for this morning's set but it turned out to be a complete disaster. Worst set of the year by far.

 

I thought I'd try 32mph, 28 off the whole set. All I did was fall at 1-ball. Every. Single. Pass.

 

Tried to get as wide as I could on the pull-out, tried not to reel the rope in, tried to get into a stack, continually failed.

 

It's AMAZING, and I mean truly amazing that you could work on 15 and 22 passes for years thinking that you know a thing about skiing, and then cut to 28 and know absolutely zero. The relevance is so shockingly not there. To think of all the gas I've burned doing an activity that is not relevant to -28 is really frustrating!

 

In trying to go through my thoughts/troubles in today's set the consistent problem was that I could not figure out how to turn in properly or comfortably. I remember feeling "stuck" in my glide, especially the wider I got. Just could not initiate that turn. Then it was narrow and dragged into 1, rushed 1, ski stops, pass ends. Repeat 6X.

[ForrestGump]

Joel, don't worry about falling. You are going to fall and miss when you are working on things.

[buski]

@jhughes thanks for starting the thread the discussion has been very helpful. I'm not quite where you are yet but just started making a handful of 34mph passes at 15 off, but certainly don't own it yet.

 

I don't ski tournaments so I don't necessarily have to stay on top of my 15 off passes at higher speeds, but do want to get up to speed and down the line to 28 off or more.

 

@ the rest, I wonder if I (or others in similar position) wouldn't be better served dropping speed back again to 28 or 30 and start cutting and try to improve technique in order to run 22 and to start running 28 at the slower speeds before speeding back up?

[ChadW]

Joel, I had Roland Hilliard in the boat a couple of years ago, when I first started skiing 28off. He changed my gate, telling me to go from hip to hip with the handle like Parish. That was one of the most frustrating days of my skiing life. Gate, 1 ball and fall, over and over. I sympathize with your frustration. However, I started feeling the wide cast and saw the backside of 1 ball on a couple of those falls. It was just foreign and different. You'll figure it out!

[A_B]

There are a lot of skiers in the same spot. I skied with a new guy this past weekend who started at 22 32 mph, bumped up to 34, both fairly easy, but skied buoy to buoy, so I thought 28 would be a challenge, and it was. He pulled out nice and wide for gates, but reached high and to the boat on his turn in, and then pulled the handle into his chest every time. Basically stood up behind the boat with about 2 feet of gap between his hip and handle. We worked on the hip to hip handle position with rotation toward the gate, and he was amazed at how early he was getting into 1 ball. I told him if he can get in that position in the gate, there is no reason to not do it the rest of the course. While in the course, at the buoy, he reaches high to the boat, just like the gate turn in, and leaves the ski behind him in the turn. He can feel it now and knows it isn't right compared to his gate position, so that is a start.....

 

The problem in skiing is you can think your problem is behind the boat, but it could really be how you setup a turn or finished it, putting you in a position to fail, unless of course, you are Chuck Norris.

 

 

[Jordan]

First a disclaimer:

 

Fin tweaking and constant adjustment is NOT recommended.

 

That said, if you haven't done this already go somewhere where you can get help setting up your ski. A properly set up ski will not make you a better skier.

 

What it will do, is allow you to achieve success when you get it right, and experience the correct sensations when you get stacked and to feel the ski hold an edge that you can trust.

 

Many years ago I went for a lesson and the first comment from the Instructor after set one was, "has that ski been set up properly?" I assumed that would have been taken care of at the shop that I bought it from.

 

Turns out it wasn't even close.

 

 

[MISkier]

@jhughes, if you slowed the boat down, you probably need to pull out for the gate just a shade later than normal. You are probably "sinking" during your glide and that is making the turn for the gate more difficult. You might need to make an adjustment to keep your pre-gate speed up just a little when working the slower speeds. I had to make this adjustment recently when working some slower speeds.

[Wish]

You may feel more "stuck" at a 28 glide especially if your getting higher on the boat but your not. Your just free from the pull. Ever swing so high on a swing set as a kid that you feel that stall at the top end highest point?. At longer lines or a shallow pull out at 28 the boat is literally pulling you into the center of the wake in the glide like a pendulum . So when you start the pull in for the gates, there's already a good bit of tug from the boat to send you that direction. If your up higher on the boat at 28, you will be free (to some degree) of this pull kinda like stalling at the top end o the swing. That's what will take some getting used to. Your not "stuck" your free from a pull. This changes how you turn in. Suggestions above and I'm sure to come should help.

[Waternut]

@jhughed One of my biggest problems is going flat into the buoys and taking a wider gate actually makes this problem even worse. I'm hesitant to say try a narrower gate because that really goes against what everyone says is the correct way. However, if you try a couple narrower gates and have a clean 1 ball, a light bulb may come on when you realize and feel that you're pulling too hard off your glide and peaking your load before hitting the wake. If you can identify that as being the problem, you can start working on rolling into your turns a little smoother at least.

 

I've had a lot of light bulbs come on over the last month or so while skiing into 28 and 32 off. Unfortunately, knowing is not half the battle though when it comes to skiing but having something to work on fixing will keep you interested.

[jhughes]

Here's today's disaster set. As painful as this was to watch, it was far worse to ski it, believe me! My thoughts were 1)get super wide on the pull-out 2)Turn-in later than usual and 3)try not to raise the handle up and get back on the ski in the turn-in. I think of those three things I only barely accomplished #1.

 

[billb]

@jhughes Hey, brother. I'm in the same spot except I have taken the route you suggested and that many will take issue with. I absolutely hated -22 and never run it. I also do not like to slow the boat down because my ski reacts so differently. This issue is probably worse for me than most because I'm too big for my ski, but they don't make skis for me - 6'5, 245lbs. Look at the sizing for skis and everything is in 20lb increments til you hit the biggest ski, then it says 190+. Ha. Anyway, I totally feel your pain, but take heart. I have run -28 once and am solidly knocking on the door for consistent solid runs. -15 and -22 don't discourage pulling after the second wake. In fact, typical skiers at that length don't have the technique yet to keep from pulling until they're nearly to the buoy line. At -28, you finally get the swing from the boat to throw you out there and pulling too long has disastrous consequences. Here's what I did (following coaching from a -35 skier - we call it freeskiing in the course) : turn 20 ft in front of the gate and then try to turn 20 ft in front of every ball. At first you'll lose time and be at the balls by the time you hit 4 ball. Just keep skiing it. Doing this removes the chance of hitting the ball and getting hurt and also teaches you to keep your head up and look down the buoy line to verify you have achieved proper width. Once you can stay in front all the way through, you have to move on to the harder part. This agrees with advice above. Once I started actually going through the gates and going around 1, it highlighted that my pullout was too narrow and I was pulling too hard/long through the gate. That generated a pull into 1 ball that was narrow and with a feeling of too much speed. I'm just getting that under control now. One other thing that has helped is that I like to occasionally take a couple of passes (and even a little freeski time) at -35. That will really teach you to not pull beyond the second wake!! Enjoy. And thanks for all of the time/effort on fifteenoff.com. I loved that site.

 

Bill

 

p.s. A few times I have been persuaded to ski -22 and ran it about 40% of the time. It is nothing like -28. It feels almost identical to -15 to me.

[billb]

@jhughes - to agree with what Waternut just said - the turn in should feel more like the smooth, progressive cut instead of a slam in and huge tug of war.

[TheBigHead]

@jhughes

 

All the advice given is great, and really you aren't far from running 28.

 

But TBH the only thing I see here is really poor offside body position, to the point of a dangerous OTF on your wake crossings. Shoulders in front of hips, breaking hips leading into your turns.

 

Unless your videos do not actually show your typical slalom form, the only thing I would worry about is your stack, and how to get to it on your offside.

 

No matter how good your gate is, if you don't end up in a proper stack coming out of 1 ball its not going to matter.

 

Not only will your consistency improve dramatically but so will your safety.

 

If you can, post some video of successful passes at 22.

 

 

[PBD]

in the disaster video it looks like you're getting back on the tail of the ski at 1 ball. After that happens it is very difficult to recover, especially at a new line length.

[A_B]

Yes, have your knees bent going into one ball, with the ski out in front of you, and just put your right hand at your waist and keep it there with your right shoulder pulled back, not closed, and don't reach around and out to the handle, that is slamming all your weight on the front of the ski and causing it to stop you in your tracks. Carry your hand in the ready position and just drop your left hip in and rotate your right hip around and under the rope then hook up and lean away (not back). you will be surprised at how easy the ski will turn and take off. One step at a time...some find that if you think you are taking a small step forward on the ski, it helps the offside turn engaging the tip more, and keeps you off the tail.

 

On the gate glide, I don't like the way you are moving the handle out to the left and up, then down. Keep it waist level and drop your right hip in direction of the gate and rotate your left hip around and peg the handle right there (keep chest up through gates). Some wasted motion there and causing you to go out the back of the ski more..

 

Sorry, don't mean to be frank, but just trying to be on point.. info overload to sugar coat it.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Jhughes, I'll offer some comments on your training methodology that I think are hurting you more than helping.

 

1. Over the years I've seen many skiers start at 32/22, then up to 34/22 and not get much farther. In EVERY case, I believe this was detrimental and the and the skier would have been much better off starting at 34/15 or better yet 32/15. The opener at 32/22 is very different from the next passes and is not an effective warmup pass.

 

2. Slowing down for your hardest pass is good, but 2mph is too much and will result in bad habits. Try slowing down between 0.5 and 1 mph for 28.

 

3. Doing a practice set starting at your hardest line at slow speed is setting yourself up for failure. You need to have several easy passes under your belt to get your body and mind ready for the difficult pass. As a sanity check, how do you think Nate Smith would do starting at 43 off/ 34 mph?

 

4. A rule of thumb for every slalom skier who seriously wishes to improve is that your hardest pass should be your 4th or 5th pass off the dock. Again, how do you think Nate would do starting every set at -39? He would probably run it, but his consistency at 41 would drop dramatically.

 

5. 28 off is one of the more significant jumps in difficulty between line lengths (39 to 41 is the biggest FWIW). So, yes it does require more attention to body position and technique, but you need to practice and perfect the technique on your easer passes. For every single one of us, it is VERY hard to think about technique at our hardest pass when the skiing goes on autopilot and we can only think about getting around that &@$? buoy.

 

So, my bottom line recommendation is to start at 30/15 or 32/15 - and no whining about "but that's too slow" or "but I sink" - if either of those happen its because you are not balanced on your ski or need to learn to carry your speed - both of which are critical skills that are much easier to learn at slower speeds. Focus on skiing wide, early and smooth. Get this engrained on easy passes and your progress will be much faster.

 

Oh yeah, and get wide on your gates:)

[Chef23]

@Bruce_Butterfield great advice I couldn't agree more with your post.

[jhughes]

@Bruce_Butterfield thank you, just to clarify I nearly always start at 32/15. The 32/22 was an experiment as was the 32/28 opener.

 

@TheBigHead there are tons of videos of me skiing more successful passes on my YT channel, accessible here http://www.youtube.com/user/fifteenoff?feature=watch The big offside crunch you are seeing is not typical. Not saying my offside lean is perfect but these videos are showing a pass that is well over with at the gates.

 

@AB great stuff, thanks. I do believe I'm rushing to the handle which I can't get away with at all at 28.