BOS Judges 3.25 or 3.5 For Regina's WR

[Klundell]

Because a sports fan always has an opinion on a call even if they are sitting in the nose bleed section. Based solely on this video what is your call?

[chris_logan]

The video does not provide a wide enough angle to make that call. Tower judges have a wider view that allows them to see the ski path and determine where she is no longer in control of the handle or "in a skiing position".

[Chad_Scott]

3 1/4

[Edbrazil]

Since boat video is required for R, the probable answer is there. Certainly a 1/4. Hard to

tell otherwise from a non-official shore video.

[Klundell]

@chris_logan That was a given. We are just having fun speculating from the video we have.

[MattP]

I'm with @chris_logan‌ I feel like this was beat to death in the other thread.

[Klundell]

It most definitely was. I just wanted to see how it would play out in a poll.

[gregy]

From this video looks like 3.25

[Andre]

There is a certain arc in the water after the bouy if you freeze before the fall.

Not clear,but advantage to the skier.

3.5

Anyway,she'll go outside of 4 soon...

[eleeski]

I worry about some of you judges. She's clearly out to the ball, around it without sinking it or running over it and arcing back in. Maybe she tried to get the ski to move faster than it was ready for or maybe she just didn't want to get slammed by the hit (she had the record) but she was in control for a long ways after the ball. It doesn't take much to break the plane back in (per @Than_Bogan‌ in the other thread). Absolutely nothing in that view even remotely made me think anything less than a full half.

Most telling from the video, she seemed to feel that it was 3.5.

How did this "controversy" get started?

Eric

[tbrenchley]

I've been in this position (late into the 4 ball) a thousand times and thrown my ski around it just like in the video. I usually pull off a very long backslide to avoid the rag doll crash Regina experienced in this video but I can say from the video and from experience that ski never came back into the buoy line. 3.25 is the only score I could call from the footage.

[disland]

@than_bogan math question for you.

 

At short line slalom, and assuming a ski has a rocker (which they all do) and therefore except for one infentesimal small instant in time is it not impossible to score 1/4 buoy.

[The_MS]

I agree with Dave.

[mwetskier]

@disland -your argument fails to consider that skis also often slide out sideways under pressure even the ones that have a rocker. in the video she keeps her lower body very upright as she screams toward the buoy because otherwise she would edge the ski inward and not get it around the buoy. once she knows she 'll clear the buoy she lays over and the ski slides out side of the ball and keeps going out bound as she's stretched out until the handle gets yanked out of her hand.

[BRY]

I can't believe it, but I'm with @eleeski "I worry about some of you judges".

She got the ski outside the buoy, barely, is past it and arcing back in. When she lost the handle and fell (after this frame) she and the ski fell towards the wakes. Handle after the buoy, on turning edge, -38 and shorter it's 3.5, no way to hang out there.

[disland]

@mwetskier that may be true but according to the rule book the ski would have to slide exactly perpendicular to the boat path and while her binder is exactly in line with the buoy. Although theoretically possible in my opinion the odds of that happening are near zero

[MrJones]

I was at the end of the elevated judges tower with a view of her going "out and away" from me to reach 4. I think this is about the best perspective you could have. I would have called it a 3.25.

 

You have to give the skier the benefit of doubt though. I was boat judge for a later round. I called 2.5 at 41 and the shore judges gave her 2.25. I was trying to look around the boat camera man, who was leaning forward as well, and I didn't have a clear look. 2.25 was correct, but I gave her the benefit.

[dtm]

I looked at the AWSA rulebook to find definition for the scoring. Here's what they say in regards to "skiing position";

 

8.07 Skiing Position

Skiing position is defined as that position in which all of the following exist:

A. The skier has possession of the tow line; and

B. The skier is riding forward or backward on the water with a ski or skis on his feet; and

C. The weight of the skier is supported by his ski or skis and the skier is ultimately able to regain control.

 

3.25

 

-Taking into consideration 8.07 ©....There may be a lot of "halves" given, when the more appropriate score would be a quarter.

[bolizous]

Judges are getting older and need newer perscriptions, but I know the boat judge and he had the latest

[Chef23]

From that angle I woułd say 3.25 but a different angle could easily be 3.5.

[Than_Bogan]

To those who don't like speculation (and presumably hate Sports Radio): Stop reading this thread! There is nothing else here and isn't going to be.

 

Now back to the fun.

 

@disland While geometry is important here, this isn't a pure "math question." The geometry can only help us guess what was most likely. Furthermore, if on the tail of the ski, the rocker might not come into play.

 

@dtm That may be the more relevant aspect of this. However, if we read the rule very literally, I think this score (and almost any like it) would have to be called 3. When completely stretched out to round a buoy, it's not clear to me that the "skier is supported by her ski." So I believe the "standard" interpretion of this rule is actually more like: the net force of the skier is supported by a ski that is supported by the water. That way if one wipes out in the turn without ever getting back over the ski, it's possible to get 0.25s and 0.5s. Since that seems to be the way that rule is "always" interpretted, I don't think it prevents a score of 0.25 or 0.5 here.

 

My wild speculation is still on 3.5.

[The_MS]

I was on the dock looking down the course from behind and my initial thought was 3.5

[Horton]

If she had the handle as she passed the ball the boat would have most likely pulled her back to get the 1/2. The shorter the rope the harder it is to get 1/4.

 

I switched the YouTube to high res, went full screen and clicked through as slow as I could. I would be surprised if the boat video did not show a clear 1/2. It looks like she had the handle for a number of feet past the ball and that means she as to be inside the ball line.

 

Funny @Chad_Scott‌ Are you now cheering against Regina so you can take her down in the GOODE bracket challenge

[skosney]

Bad angle and benefit goes to the skier. Skiing position maintained past the ball and a the short line length I would conclude the ski broken the buoy line plane to score 3.5

[RichardDoane]

3Q IMO

[mwetskier]

pues, estoy de acuerdo en discrepar. http:\\www.youtube.com/watch?v=238kiM8AOLs

 

 

[thompjs]

She did not get the benefit of the doubt on her 3.5 last year at Utopia. She grazed the buoy a bit and it ended up being ruled a ride over.

 

IWWF does not have any charity cases

[tbrenchley]

Anyone want to change their vote now? I worry about some of you judges @eleeski‌

[ForrestGump]

No reason to be smug about it. I still maintain that you can't call a definitive score from this video due to the angle and location of the camera.

[Than_Bogan]

Man my hat is tasty!

[tbrenchley]

That wasn't meant to be smug just humorous since some people said it was no doubt 3.5 the video a obviously not the greatest angle and it could have gone either way. Like @Than_Bogan‌ said, I won the latest ski guessing game.

[klindy]

@ShaneH‌ "the angle" of that video isn't too far off what a typical tower judge would see under both AWSA and IWWF rules (they are the same). Point is it's basically the view, and potentially the opposite from the other shore, which is used to call buoys in 99.9% of the situations. Boat video is only required for class R and while there are provisions to review the boat video, many times is simply recorded to the camera and ONLY looked at if a world record is set (only Open Men and Open Women). Recording on camera only avoids all the hassle and expense to transmit the signal to shore somewhere.

 

What I find incredibly ironic is the same "I can't make the call from that angle" argument is precisely why we have seen the technical requirements ramp up over the past years for record class tournaments.

 

I don't know if all three judges called 3-1/2 (two tower and a boat judge). I would agree that in this case the boat judge (and therefore the boat video) had the best view to determine 1/4 or 1/2. However I wouldn't be too adamant that the view from shore isn't good enough. Next thing we'll need high speed cameras at each buoy or a replay booth at USAWS headquarters

[Than_Bogan]

@tbrenchley I cede The Internet to you. Perhaps I'll have a chance to win it back someday!

[eleeski]

@tbrenchley‌ I have been involved in a few records - both as the real time judge and as a review judge. I have not always agreed with the consensus result. But I will stand by my calls. Politics has been as big a deciding factor as anything definite on the video.

 

With the view presented of Regina, I will still stand by my call. And I'm always right! (Even if I'm the only one who can see everyone else is wrong). And Internet accuracy??

 

Eric

[Horton]

It is freak'n close. In the case of a world record I think it has to be clear(er).

[RazorRoss3]

From that angle I lean 3.25 but I could say with more than about 51% confidence. I think the judge on the other shoreline and boat judge had better views of that buoy personally