How best to disburse gasoline at private site?

[lhoover]

Help. Twelve members currently prepay and record usage on the honor system, but boss is saying there has to be a better way. After reconciliation at months end, the sloppy record keeping is costing boss money. How best to handle membership usage on an individual basis? Ideas, please.

[FracBurner]

Pay per engine hour meter. Tenth of an hour increments is fine. Averages out. Skier should check that the meter jives with current entry before set or pay the price. Skiers automatically police each other. Boss can adjust burn rate and unit cost as s/he sees fit.

 

Or per pass. e.g. 0.2 gallon charge per pass. Boss can adjust as needed. But would probably have same record keeping problem and require @OB 's #1.

 

 

[Razorskier1]

Sounds like a member problem, not a system problem. We put 500 gallons in a can, charge $1 per pass. We write them on a pad at the end of your sets, add them up every couple months and write checks. Shouldn't need to police honest people.

[Jdubs]

I have many times said over the years - boat companies should realize that since they have such expensive products,people are forced to partner in on boats. Since some already have touch screens and key pads - they should have a methods like individual passwords on keypads to keep track of boat usage. It's a very simple solution for club boats and multi owners.

 

So if your reading any of this - (big 4 manufactures ) please equip this on next years boat. It will help us avoid Freddie the freeloader.

[Waternut]

Ask members to help police each other? Sometimes it's not necessarily a freeloader so much as forgetfulness. I give the owner of our lake a big check at the beginning of the season and deduct off my tab at the end of the day. After skiing, people shoot the breeze, drink, rush home, get injured, and/or otherwise just forget. I know I have forgotten on more than one occasion but I do everything I can to mark double off the next time to make up for it.

 

IMO, if the "boss" is paying out of pocket, you guys should be offering to split it amongst yourselves. The quickest way to get the owner to stop letting you use his boat or jack up costs significantly is to screw him over on a regular basis. No one is perfect but if the money in isn't equaling the money out, don't make one person deal with it. Step up and show everyone you all are ready to do what it takes to make this work.

[GregHind]

My Evinrude ETEC calculates fuel used very, very accurately. It has a fuel memory module and is even accurate over the course of a whole summer. @jdubs I like your suggestion. It should be easy to have software calculate this for us.

[Waternut]

Do boat computer have an OBDII port like cars? If so, a simple thing like ultragauge that measures fuel used can be fitted for under $100.

[gregy]

They do have a port but its not obd2. Mefi or econtrol.

[6balls]

@agree with @fracburner...boat tenths on the hour meter and a log book make it very easy. Charge per tenth. Boat gets less hours, too, as skiers/drivers shut her down when able.

[lhoover]

Thanks for ideas so far, but let me be more specific as to the situation. It has nothing to do with a club boat; rather, each member prepays to use the gas pump for their own boat. The "tenths" are what seem to add up over a 500gal. tank, plus 12 sets of names and 12 accounts. Have not read anything yet that rings my bell or is feasible so keep those cards and letters and ideas coming.

[pgmoore]

@lhoover‌ Get in touch with Ken at Shalom Park in Alberta - http://www.shalompark.com/contact-us.html.

 

Ask him about the PassTime system he developed to solve exactly this problem. Each member is issued a card with minutes preloaded. The card goes in the boat and the minutes wind down when the boat is running. Once your card is empty you buy a new one.

 

Bottom line, you pay for exactly the gas you use. No more, no less. It is brilliant.

[Chef23]

@lhoover if I understand correctly there is a private site with a gas pump that members can use to put gas in their own boats is that correct?

[rayn]

I have no personal knowledge in this area. But this must be a problem that has already been solved. There are tons of inexpensive meters you can put on the line. I did a quick search and I believe some even have codes to record individual use. Worse case every time you fill up. You reset the meter and then at the end you take picture of the meter and that is you receipt. Depends on the trust factor how far you need to go.

[lhoover]

@chef23 Correct.

[ForrestGump]

Why not a keyed metering system on the pump like Cypress has?

 

You might call Kenny Broach since he's a gasoline distributor. I bet he's had to deal with it before.

[Chuck_Dickey]

@lhoover We have a 500 gallon tank that has one of these pumps that dispenses and meters the fuel. Our log book is the honor system to a point, we note the fuel dispensed to the 1/10th gallon. The user logs the amount they take and write down the gallons as well as the aggregate gallons dispensed. Each person needs to look at the previous entry and make sure it matches what's on the meter. If there is an error, a notation is made before pumping. Works well for us.

 

[LeonL]

Perhaps the best approach is to seek a volunteer the check the cumulative gallon meter on the pump each day. If the log doesn't match reading someone who got gas that day failed to record. Most cases (all cases?) for us is mere forgetfulness, not larceny. Just ask around and you'll most likely have the offender will admit to his/her mistake.

[6balls]

If measuring gallons and not boat time, it's not necessarily an estimation of use unless the individual skier uses only the amount he/she put in the boat. If the boat is at 1/4 and I put in 5 gallons what keeps me from skiing til it's breathing fumes? Not only do I get extra but the next guy may be nervous about only putting in 5 gallons b/c it's so low at present. The boat also already has a meter in it...put a clipboard with pen on the dash and you're done. Put a reminder sign in the boathouse or on the boathouse door reminding to record their hours.

[E_T]

Put a real pump with a credit card machine in it. This will make people pay for what they use.

[JAS]

Ditto what said above, plus any disepancy is divided between members. The whole club will be watching instead of just the boss

[Jordan]

you can get a card lock system that will track the amount of fuel pumped by each user.

[Chef23]

I guess if I was the boss using the current system I would increase the cost per gallon until I was covering my costs. If there was a recurring overage I would rebate money at the end of the season (or throw a big party).

[LeonL]

@6balls, I think each one is using their own boat. @Jordon and E_T, that approach would seem to be cost ineffective. At least it would for me.

[Wolfeie]

At Ski West we have a gas tank/pump that has a control panel with 30 separate counters.

Each counter has its own key which the owner has. At the end of the month someone just

reads each counter and we get billed. They usually add a few cents per gallon to cover

costs.

[LeonL]

How much did such a system cost, Wolfeie?

[Wolfeie]

It was purchased a long time ago, I will get the name of it this Friday when I am up at the lake

[ntx]

@lhoover‌ we use a product called a flow scan. It installs into the fuel line and measures usage. Each person logs usage into a log book after each set. It works great and is very accurate. We have done it like this for several years. We transfer the system into each new boat we get

[DefectiveDave]

@ntx‌, @lhoover‌,

 

Flow scan also has an interface system where you can output the data to an acquisition system. One could hypothetically build a simple microcontroller login system which reads the flow scan and tie it into the ignition. If you don't login, the boat doesn't start. When you login, the system could then automatically record your usage. It wouldn't be too difficult to build and could include a touch screen interface. I would checkout arduino and teensy prototype development boards as I've found them the easiest to use.

 

I would guess that someone sufficiently committed, but with no experience, could put the whole thing together in a couple of weeks. Then it would be easy to share with other ballers looking to build there own. Of course this does nothing if someone chooses to fill up there car at the boat pump. Though I would hope people are just forgetful and not scumbags.

[Chuck_Dickey]

@lhoover‌ Our tank is paid from our HOA account to fill it, then each user pays what's logged to the 1/10th gallon. Each user reads the meter prior to use and notates any error. Monthly accounting easily can spot the math error and charge that person the correct amount.

 

So, we confirm the prior entry matches the actual meter reading, dispense and log to the 1/10, then log the aggregate total. All the math works.

 

Our club treasurer add the cost per gallon to the delivery fee and calculates our price per gallon each month. This balances well as fuel costs rise and fall.

[ntx]

@Chuck_Dickey‌ how do you record gas usage in a common boat? I think the problem @lhoover‌ is trying to solve is several people that ski out of a common or community boat. That is a little different than measuring how much comes from a storage tank. The flow scan measures the fuel used by the boat for each set. This also helps if you have skiers at different speeds or events. Jump burns much more than trick. With the flow scan you know what each set takes.

[MISkier]

@ntx, one of the posts from @lhoover says that the pump is used by the members for their own boats. So, it appears to be an issue of controlling the pump and measuring/recording withdrawals from the common storage tank.

 

One club membership I have includes the club boat, gas, and lake usage. We don't record or care how much is used by anyone and we all pay the same. If I find myself concerned about others consuming more than their share, I take action. I immediately increase my skiing frequency.

 

The other club membership I have requires the use of our own boats, which are not docked onsite. Therefore, we are able to stop at the gas station while trailering to the site for the day's skiing.

 

One way to ensure the equitable the use of a common pump for individuals' boats is to terminate the availability of the common pump. Then, the members will definitely cover the fuel consumption accurately by trailering the boat to the gas station or lugging their own gas cans to the dock. Or, once they realize the loss of convenience, they will help solve the problem with a lasting and enforceable solution.

[Chuck_Dickey]

@ntx‌

 

He wrote above;

 

"lhoover Posts: 111 Baller

August 11 Flag

Thanks for ideas so far, but let me be more specific as to the situation. It has nothing to do with a club boat; rather, each member prepays to use the gas pump for their own boat."

 

If a club boat were used, the inline flow scan or card scan would be my suggestion. I don't think the hour meter on the boat would be fair since boat speed for slalom, trick or jump makes a big difference in fuel consumption.

[ntx]

@Chuck_Dickey‌ sorry you are right. I did miss that post.