Baller oldjeep Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 If someone can do the work that was supposedly done on this boat and then sell it for under $16K then your plan should be possible. 96 LX with a transplanted Monsoon EFI motor and new interior. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/5094945080.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @e_t The lower portion of the intake is from an early 90's ford truck with sefi. These are the best for the indmar 351 as they have very substantial runners and bolt right on. The upper portion was fabricated by me from scratch, and the throttle body is from the same truck as the lower intake. The highest point on my motor is the distributor now so everything fits under the stock motor box no problem. I'm running a custom built (also by me) megasquirt controller. Although nowadays you can buy a megasquirt ecu pre-assembled which is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @smalor thats pretty cool, i am trying to figure out if i can retro mount a 90mm LS2 throttle body vertically , and have the throttle controlled by zero off. any thoughts? I havet figured out what would be needed for DBW throttle to communicate with ZO , the throttle body and FI controller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 @E_T http://media.tumblr.com/fe497dd337d9af8479bb6398b9565d16/tumblr_inline_mg6n5ltl6X1rxe4lt.gif Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @horton is that your new dance move ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ALPJr Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Refresh your 91. Major tune up for the bullet proof Indmar Ford $1,500, tran's overhaul & alignment $1,500, machined OJ prop $400, interior $2,500, leave it hand throttle and have some fun, battery - gauges and misc. parts if needed $1,500, buff and wax. Should make a very nice boat for another 7 to 8k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Bulldog Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 Would be a great project to watch!!! "Do Better..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted July 20, 2015 Author Administrators Share Posted July 20, 2015 I am really not sure how simple or in depth the project will be (assuming I get it funded). I am leaning toward economical and spartan. A total restore + ZO would be cool to own but defeats my idea that you do not need a huge fist full of cash to slalom ski. You do not need ZO to work your way up the ladder in skiing. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 I'd like to put the animated Panda gif in effect here for the whole thread if possible. :p As @OB said "having good drivers, time to ski every day or every other day, seeing a good coach often, and not having a job during the ski season" etc. etc. etc. are what's tough in this game. Time & Location & Willing Drivers at both time and location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller akale15 Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @Ilivetoski I completely agree with you about perfect for people out of college. At 25 I can't just go out and drop $20k on a boat, let alone $50k+ but something around the $10k to $12k that i know is better than an I/O or skiing behind a friends parents wakeboard boat is well worth it to me. @jhughes I agree with the fact that the problem is access to consistent, nearby, flat water, with a course but if I could afford a boat of my own (the biggest upfront cost) I can drop a portable course in ($500 - $1000) and now all I need is a driver/spotter. If you marry the right ones (as I have) the wife can drive and friends love boat rides....even if they don't ski I would be willing to give up some time teaching them if it means they are helping me ski more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jhughes Posted July 20, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 20, 2015 @akale15 Been there for sure. When I was 22 out of college I got myself a 10K loan and bought a 1990 SN with 900 hours on it (this was in 2002). I think the payment was about 150.00/mo. I did not even have a tow vehicle at the time. Borrowed Dad's Jeep. We then bought a portable and deployed it until we finally found private water. So, it's been done and that's pretty much the project thread right there in that case. Most logical people would have thought we were crazy for financing an old toy like that but I wouldn't take those days back for a second! Well worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 @horton i have still yet to figure out what you final goal is, First set a budget then go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller jackski Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @smalor wow pretty coo, l would love to get some info from you on that project if you're willing to share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I think I will just stick with my 02 196 project! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ Wish Posted July 21, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 21, 2015 @thagar has a killer ZO ride...and magic water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller xrated Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'd love to see this unfold. Simply because someday I will need to buy a boat...but 3 kids and a stay at home mom really makes the boat budget tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalor Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 @jackski happy to share any info I can on the boat project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I want to say this is would be a cool project ONLY IF you enjoy doing boat work yourself and have the patience to wait months for a good deal to come along on all the parts you want. Otherwise, I feel it will be so expensive that it won't be worth it and you'll never recover your losses. I owned my last 86 Dixie Super Skier 299 for over 5 years. Bought it for $2800. Had a solid engine for that year but the interior was beyond beat up. A couple weeks of clean up and it was useable but had pretty crappy ski and wakeboard wakes. As the years went on (in no particular order), I redid the interior myself (carpet and seats), repainted the entire hull with automotive paint, rebuilt the engine, replaced the seals in the tranny, redid the floors and added custom ballast tanks for the boarders, redid some of the stringers, added a tower, swapped ski pylons, PP Stargazer, machined acme prop, hydraulic wakeplate to bring the ski wake down to reasonable size, spray rails to cut down on chine spray, HEI distributor, and quite a few other things that I'm sure I'm missing. When I was done, I had a pretty nice ski boat up to 35off, a pretty nice wakeboard boat, and a boat that could hold it's own to V-drives with fat sacks for wakesurfing. I had countless hours in this boat but realistically only spent around $9k-$10k on the boat, trailer, and all upgrades. I had a bittersweet moment about 3 weeks ago when I sold it for $9000. 10 days later I scored a 2000 Malibu Response LX with wedge and Stargazer for $12.5k with the 325 Monsoon engine and couldn't be happier! Moral of the story...you can make it worth it, you can love it, and you can enjoy building it BUT you will always wish you had something else either a little nicer, little more reliable, little prettier, etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Broussard Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 91-97 Prostar 190s are sweet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Ed_Obermeier Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @Waternut wrote "Moral of the story...you can make it worth it, you can love it, and you can enjoy building it BUT you will always wish you had something else either a little nicer, little more reliable, little prettier, etc, etc." True enough. But you gotta start somewhere, and if that is the point you're forced (for whatever reasons) to start at, that's better than not skiing at all IMO. It's normal I suppose to want to better yourself. Common sense dictates that you do what you can afford NOW and build from there. I'm sure a lot of us got started that way. @Horton my 2 cents worth. A very worthwhile project if the goal is to prove for all to see that it's within reach financially for the average newbie with desire and a small budget, say $10 - 15K? Just saw it done locally recently with a late '80s Ski Supreme, turned out really nice for under $10K. I say go for it! Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lots of pretty good options from our past however...the oldest hull and thus cheapest starting point VERY comparable with today's best for wake/spray/tracking is the TSC1 starting in '97. Buy a cheap one, re-upholster, buff/decal, re-power with ZO compatible motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ozski Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @6balls - Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Rpc29 Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I bought a 1995 Prostar 190 with under 400 hours about 2 months ago. Cost me $9800 + the cost of perfect pass and some trailer tires (sore subject). It doesn't have ZO but the LT-1 is strong enough its tough to tell the difference. You don't need to spend 50k for a good training boat. Here is another example of a primo boat you could have for less than $15,000 http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/boa/5129720139.html - 57 hours!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Dano Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I want to see this project come together. curious to see what path is chosen for the project. I will say this @smalor is a very good source for info on this topic. His boat performs very well. i think the goal Should be to complete the project for under 10k. Maybe this is a little ambitious, but I think it can be done. Maybe turf some of the frills and do without so money can be spent where it matters like motor and speed control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @6balls The easiest one however, is an 02 196 with with 330 Excaliber. Just add ZO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller RAWSki Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 Should be fun and interesting, not sure I would have the patience I would rather look for a 'turn of the century sleeper' craft, put a little money and time into it and be skiing! an MB comes to mind, or a Gecko or this one..... guessing it could be had for $8K based on the asking price. detroit.craigslist.org/okl/boa/5076024572.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller 6balls Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @thager agreed. Given the prices for a '02 today how cheaply could it be done "all in"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @6balls Easily less than 24K I would guess if you can find one. There are 2 possible and one is Maple Grove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 So since a lot of this thread is based on price, are there any car engines that could easily be adapted to run ZO that could be had from a junkyard? I'm assuming the $10k intro price for the correct engine is a brand new crate motor with all the correct electronics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andy Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 Lots of pictures please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @6balls I did my 2002 196. I bought the boat for 17k. Had 730 hours on it and then dropped 4k in the ZO upgrade. Did all the work myself got 21k in a nice ZO boat. My ski partner just bought a promo 200 and the best compliment he could give me was if he closed his eyes it felt like my boat. ZO install was easy took me around 8 hours. I also got a small gauge that fit in my dash where the PP came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
east tx skier Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 @Jody_Seal I can render a guess at one of those questions. That era of MC (91--98) has very little clearance under the motorbox as is. With the original 351w in it, there was less than 1.5" of clearance. It would be easy enough to make a collar to go around the base of the motorbox to raise it up however much you needed, which would have the added benefit of keeping the ropes and other gear from slipping into the bilge every time the cover is raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ DW Posted July 21, 2015 Baller_ Share Posted July 21, 2015 I have modified my old mid 90's tug significantly and the results have been great, learned a lot and have enjoyed it immensely. Two objectives with the project, power increase (barefooting) and wake improvement. As the power increase phase (+150 hp over original) progressed via heads/manifolds/cam/exhaust and most via aluminum parts, the weight savings improved the wake substantially. The wake improvement (slalom focused) phase constituted some hull mods and more weight savings via lightweight panels, gutting the transom and shifting the center of gravity forward significantly. Current weight reduction is 325#. Wake has been dramatically improved (at all speeds, the CFO loves the wakes at longer lines and is insensitive to fuel level), boat is a rocket and handles much better. Investment for the mods is $5k so far. Not done, as this project was pretty much pre ZO, is an engine upgrade to make the boat ZO compatible, that is the costly aspect to this type of project. To the title of the thread, I think it fits the bill well as it provides the wakes of the newest offerings and power levels of the latest gen engine offerings. Next step might be if you want to continue along the DIY path, either an LS unit replacing the SBC or a DBW mill so you can adapt ZO to it. For my application you would have to go LS or the gains in the existing powertrain (power/weight) would be erased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 @skier2788 what did you do to your motor to make it ZO capable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller chris_logan Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 Something else to consider, aside from the potential increased height of the new power plant, is the width. Most older (early 90s and back) motorboxes may not fit newer engines that have larger exhaust manifolds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 @chris_logan you are correct there is a guy who stuffed a new 5.7 in a '85 MC this winter. He had to go with the new motor box because of the exhaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 Hank Longo had Sauciers old 70 something Mastercraft back in the mid 90's which I think had a 454 in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibumm Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 This project is very interesting to me as an owner of an old tug. My 94 Centurion Falcon (owned since day one) cost me $14,500. I have redone the interior at the tune of $3,500 and added PP Zbox. I am sure that at some point soon it will need a heart transplant (still runs strong now at 2600+ hrs) and seeing what others are doing is very helpful. Currently I would stroke the 350 and upgrade intake and heads. Not sure if I would convert to EFI. I am guessing the value of my boat right around $8,000. You could get into a good older tug and upgrade as needed for I think easily under $15,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @E_T replace the Ecm and complete wiring harness new thottle body and added a few sensors (like a knock sensor temp sensor and oil pressure sensor.) Comes with a few new brackets to move the ecm thottle cable and relays on the back. Throttle cable now just goes to a potentiometer. Being a mechanic it was all pretty simple. 2002 is simple no gateway box to deal with unless it is the limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 My 02 limited had no Gateway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 I guess no gateway in an 02. Was told limited had them but maybe not. Now to get my speedo to work without the PP module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_T Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 @skier2788 you can add GPS to your speedo http://nauticlaugic.com/airglide.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayman2 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Old hat. In 1974, our '67 cc mustang wouldn't hold 36 mph. We pulled the 289 and stuffed a 351 Cleveland in there. Twice. First time was before we brother and I realized cc engines run backwards. Pulled it out, replaced cam, disty, starter. Put it back in, figured out the firing order by putting our thumb over the spark plug holes, dropped her in the water and she by God held 36 then. Except pumped oil out the rear main seal. Pulled engine again, metal sputtered knurls on crankshaft, ground shiny, new main seal. Stuffed it back in. Run it once a year now, sits in the shed otherwise. Can't bear to sell her. Best experience a high school kid could have. My daily trainer these days is a 2002 196 with a '08 343 ZO. Couple thou hours on the hull, 180 hrs on engine. Gas mileage, pull, wakes, tracking, noise, handling I'll put that boat up against anything and it will hold its own. Hell, it looks better than anything made today. No extra styling crap, stupid platypus noses or monster engine boxes. Just the perfect bare minimum solid boat. $21 k in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Waternut Posted July 21, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 21, 2015 @skier2788 That is awesome! I doubt I'll do it this year but you've opened up new possibilities for me for the future! Does the $4k you spent include everything you needed? Do you remember what parts you actually bought? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 @E_T I did the teleflex to faria gauge conversion. I am missing some power or ground since I no longer use a PP module and it uses that with the paddle wheel for speed. @Waternut yes it had everything needed tim at inboard solutions puts together a nice kit. I believe the price has gone up a bit since I did mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skier2788 Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller PT Mike Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 I put a ZR6 in my 96' PS 190 Motor box clearance was a non issue as the 6.0 liter was a leftover and was pre catalytic converter manifolds. The footprint width wise was actually narrower then the original TBI. I have a thread over on Team Talk I should dig up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller escmanaze Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 This thread has already exposed a lot of really cool stuff people are doing and @Horton hasn't even started his project yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller thager Posted July 22, 2015 Baller Share Posted July 22, 2015 This is how I did my instruments conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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