Its a 3-PEAT in M4!!!!

[skibug]

I will brag on it because he won't.....but....it is truly an amazing accomplishment and someone besides me should be writing about. Don Aschenbrenner (my main ski partner) has captured the M4 Slalom National Title for the 3rd time in a row and his last year in M4. I am not sure how many times, in how many other divisions, someone has accomplished such a feat; but, I would guess that it is not the norm. And I think it is safe to say M4 is one of the top competitive divisions in number of skiers and scores. To boot, I believe last year's score was the first time anyone had run 39 in M4 to win the title and it was a repeat of 0.5 @ 41 to win it again this year. Congrats to Don!!! He gets sprinkles!!!

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAw2TXsgBbY

 

[skibug]

@OB1, I will have to respectfully dislike and disagree. Its a one shot deal every year against others in the division fully capable of running 39. No further comments.

[jdarwin]

Move to MM

[Than_Bogan]

Great skiing Don!!

 

Please don't blame the skier for a broken rule. Either MM should not be contested at Nationals or participation should be required. End the Choose Your Own Division nonsense.

 

Until then, celebrate great skiing in all divisions!

[LeonL]

No barbs thrown at Don, but either do away with MM or do something with MM that makes sense. A skier should not be able to pick and choose his division. Again if you are ranked as MM or Open ski it. Or AWSA should lose it. I can't compete in M7, so maybe I would be more competitive in G2 or W5, same max speed. Off the rant, Chuck Forrest won M3 8 or 9 times.

[ToddL]

G2 is too competitive for many guys... Just sayin' ;-)

[Chef23]

I know I am not competitive in G3. I might have a chance in G2. I would add congratulations to Don M4 is very competitive regardless and to have the consistency to win 3 years in a row is very impressive.

 

I do agree though that either they should figure out a way to have MM be a real division or just kill it. If Nationals is going to be an age group competition that is fine just kill MM. If MM is going to exist it should be meaningful.

[Rich]

Congrats Don, you crushed 39!

[Wish]

I would be more inclined to attend nationals if I knew my competition. Who wouldn't. But until I sign up, pay and show up I have no way of knowing how many MM skiers have opted for my age devision. So agree with abolish the MM or make a cut off so the hackers like me actually know what we are up against. Congratulations to Don. Without question a well deserved title. It's all Goode.

[animal]

The rules are what the rules are. If you don't like the rules change them but don't put others down because they follow them. I agree, the current rules for MM don't make sense, but complaining that I could have done a lot better if the really good skiers in my division weren't there? It is Nationals after all, not a flighted, local club affair.

 

I thought the intention of MM was to allow 34 mph skiers from all division ski against one another. Why does it have to be an either / or. Let them ski both so a true age division champ can be crowned and then let the best of the best ski against each other for our entertainment and determine a Grand Champion.

[Horton]

Retool nationals from scratch

[Wish]

What is the rule for open rated skiers as it pertains to age levels?

[jlittle]

Anyone with a 4+ @ 39 average should be skiing MM. IMHO. Or do away with the division.

[LeonL]

@animal has a good idea. At least it gives MM a purpose.

[Wish]

How many MM are actually skiing in MM this year?

[Razorskier1]

Damned good skiing . . .

[gjohnson]

They should keep the MM division and bump the speed to 35mph.

[jlittle]

@OB1 I understand how the rating is achieved. From my limited experience watching skiers tapping into 39, I'm simply saying putting up 3 scores of 104, or 5, is quite a bit different than 3 scores of 106+. And, IMHO, those 106+ average guys should be skiing MM. Or do away with the division.

[jayski]

@gjohnson I couldn't agree more, in fact the speed should drop from 36 to 35 at M3 and stay there, when the women go down to 32 then men can drop to 34...

[RichardDoane]

@ob - you are correct in congratulating Don on good skiing, and you are also correct in that he should be skiing in MM, and thanks for having the guts for saying both IMO, I wish I had the MM rating as I'd like to ski in that division if possible

[Wish]

12.... That's it??? . Ok. How many MM won (or podiumed) in their age devision vs non MM?

[Chet]

Animal I am in agreement with several others here.

That is a brilliant suggestion.

We need minds like yours driving us into the future.

Great idea.

[Wish]

@OB thanks. Anyone else see anything wrong with those stats in terms of...not a snowballs chance in hell? And we want to expand and grow the ever shrinking nationals?. That just tells me that I'll just wait till M7 to jump back in. And it is not an everybody deserves a medal BS so don't go there. I'd have a hard enough time kicking @OBs ass. If the National is not revamped to ability based, the MM and Open divisions should be abolished or skiers forced in. And if they are abolished and it stays age based, we will see how quick attendance dwindles even more. Maybe I'm wrong but cannot think of another sport where they let almost pro level ability based athletes jump back into age devisions. Heck, can't really think of a sport such as ours that isn't ability based.

[liquid d]

spread the cash a little bit! Top 5 should be able to go out drinkin on the check!

[Chet]

We need you guys in skiing and I'm writing you both in as presidential candidates.

The country needs you. Great ideas.

George you are missing your second calling.

Promoter

Brilliant

Congrats Don

[Razorskier1]

Jeff Nate is a great skier, a darned good hockey player, and a super nice guy.

[Razorskier1]

Jeff Nate is a great skier, a darned good hockey player, and a super nice guy.

[MichaelGoodman]

Ed Hommel (Skip) ended up 5th with what I think is a tournament PB

of 5 @ 38. He also never was on a ski until he was 38 years old

and skis a short season up in MA. Congratulations awesome job

Skip.

[Than_Bogan]

Skip is THE MAN! He had that thing run too until l you could almost hear him thinking "Holy crap I'm gonna run my first 38 at the freakin Nationals." We all know what happens next.

 

But WOW. Great guy who really knows how to rise to the occasion!

[41off]

@OB1 I was there competing today and when I saw Don I went over to congratulate him personally and told him he needs to come on to mm division and ski with us. I specifically said your running 39 and getting into 41. I won men's 3 several years ago and said once I won a national title I would move to mm where I belong and I did out of respect to all the other m3 skiers. This goes for all the mm rated skiers in all divisions.

[Chef23]

Awesome skiing by Skip Hommel. Love to see him get a PB and podium at Nationals.

[eleeski]

Overall is a problem for Masters and Open. It's not all about slalom. @animal has a great idea. At least overall skiers could get a score AND ski in the Masters or Open divisions. Qualifying at either Nationals or through prior performance is needed. What is the hang up about just skiing one round?

 

Of course, the Masters or Open overall skiers - are they now forced to ski age division as well?

 

Masters can be fun and competitive. Divisions can be so small that Masters is the only way to get meaningful competition. Ski for overall but not for placement in ages division. Compete for placement in Masters. Or carry over the Masters score. Hopefully age divisions and Masters are not too many days apart.

 

There is talk of changing the optional skiing, I hope overall skiers are considered.

 

Eric

 

MM tricker and overall hopeful

[MattP]

@eleeski somehow that actually makes sense... Hopefully the powers that be are paying attention.

[Razorskier1]

Just noticed the top 4 in M5 were also all more than half way down the line at 39 off. I applaud all of these guys for being awesome skiers, but it isn't much incentive for those of us "one layer down" to spend the time and money to go to nationals.

[klindy]

Huge congrats to Don!! Great to see him occasionally in NC and spend some time with him. Deserving win for a great guy.

 

And kudos to @skibug for posting the recognition. You won't find anyone the trains harder and it's awesome to be recognized.

[GregDavis]

Chuck Forest 9 time Champion out of 10 starts, The ultimate BIG DAWG. Congratulations Don,

[lakeo]

I thought Chet won a run off and Mike Morgan won in the last year of Chucks eligibility. So, Chuck won 8 of 10, but no doubt he is the ultimate bigdawg. Plus he use to set his fin with his thumb!

[RazorRoss3]

So this may end up a little long but stick with me:

 

So I was a competitive power lifter for a few years and we were divisions on two metrics; age and weight. If it was purely age related well that wouldn't be terribly fair to stack a 200 pounder against a 150 pounder and if I put a 20 year old up against a 60 year old while it may be closer than the weight gap the age gap would lend to younger lifters winning more often than not.

 

So as it relates to skiing,

 

If I go on to USA Waterski and look at rankings you search by age class but there are also levels 1-9 I believe that differentiate within the age groups. So why don't we do something with this? I mean the college kids have figured out D1 and D2 which means I don't have to go head to head with the best in the world and on account of that I even got to podium at conference a few times.

People like to play regardless but they only want to pay to compete when they can be... You know... Competitive. And being competitive against peers is even better. I've been in the sport going up against a group of us MN skiers who all ski within 4 buoys of each other any given day. I think you could greatly grow the competitive side of the sport if skiers are stacked against peers by both age and skill in some sense. It may mean having fewer age divisions and more skill divisions to create the right number of skiers in each group so that no one is on the podium by default (only 5 skiers in a division).

 

Is it really winning if you're so much better that you at your worst is on par with the next guy at their best? It's hard to say anyone's is doing it wrong when they're playing by the rules but the rules need to be changed to make it so anyone can be in the sport and feel competitive.

 

My personal 2¢

[lhoover]

If the memory serves, and I can stand corrected, the great Chuck Forest had won 9 straight and was looking to close out M3 with 10 in a row at the Houston Natls, 2002 (2003?). The man only a Mother could like, but the rest of us love ever since we have known him, Steve (no nerve endings) Binkley took down Chuck. It was more than exciting as they had a runoff, and may lightning strike me if it didn't take 3, maybe 4 runoffs to decide it. It was darn near dark, plus the boat had to stop during the runoff for gas. Quite an event and truly momentous in the annals of National competition.

 

Both of us who were there thought so, anyway.

 

An aside: Bink is my hero, but I remember reading a stat that Chuck had not missed a 35off in a tournament during his M3 career. Phenomenal.

[Dirt]

This is a great discussion that needs to happen. I hope no-one takes it personally, I don't.

 

Congrats to Don. He is an outstanding skier and it was fun competing against him.

 

I skied M4 because I skied overall at regionals and had planned on skiing overall at Nats. I have never placed better than 5th at Nationals. The expense and PITA of lugging 90" jumpers through the airport, along with getting beat by 100 ft, made me change my mind about overall.

 

For those that don't know, if you ski MM slalom you cannot ski MM trick or jump and are ineligible for overall. I qualified for nats on overall regional placement. This was the first time I have qualified for nats in all 3 events.

 

Put yourself in my position. Would you ski MM and be mid to low pack or ski division and have a chance to win? It's the same argument many are making to move me out. I spent $$$$ to get to Okeeheelee.

[Mateo_Vargas]

@dirt I could have loaned you my 72" jumpers.

[Dirt]

@mateovargas that is very kind of you

[eleeski]

@Dirt You have the skills to ski MM in tricks. Next year!

 

At least I pretended I was healthy enough to scare you out of MM tricks this year. But @Horton is malingering to avoid diaper duty so that opening was there for you.

 

I think you can ski age division in Regionals and up to MM for Nationals.

 

But if Nationals is at Bel Aqua next year you have no excuses not to ski overall.

 

I'm sure others are in your situation. MM can be fun. But there needs to be enough participation.

 

Eric

[disland]

The issue about Masters and overall comes up every year. Many suggestions but the "powers that be" do nothing. Lets put pressure on the leadership to address this

[webbdawg99]

There was only 1 MM overall skier at Nationals this year. If you wanted an overall title, that would be the place to do it!

[liquid d]

Did he win?

[Skihack]

Let's keep it simple! Once you ski MM, you stay in it for that year. No going back and forth. And that applies to Open Men and Women. However, I believe MM should have no age restriction. Change MM to Masters. It would be very awesome for some of the Open Men and/or Open Women to ski Masters. But once they do so, they must ski that for the whole season. Problem is: All the Pros would probably quit Open to ski the Big Dawg.

[Booze]

@41off Well done, Jay.

[Wish]

I remember skiing in what was a Novice devision in MN with several age groups rolled into ability level. Once you skied a benchmark you were out. I won my first ski tournament in that devision. Awesome feeling. Even more thrilling was knowing I was out of that devision and now skiing with the big boys. I totally sucked for years but eventually climbed my way up the pack. I'm pretty sure I'd feel the same sense of accomplishment and excitement if I was able to ski into MM and I would have no problem staying in it for a year.

 

[MillerTime38]

Ability Based skiing events do exist, I believe it is the INT? Perhaps people should go ski those events if they want to ski that format. Or spend more time on the water and less time online and maybe that will help you become more competitive.

 

I have skied in 6 of the last 7 nationals in M2, every year ex-pros and sometimes current pro's will ski in that division. I see that as motivation because I want to compete against the best, not the best of the average.

 

Keep skiing your division Don, who cares what people think