Than's Denali Log

[Than_Bogan]

@wawaskr The Nano One was the best ski I had ever owned. I really have no way to know if the last two seasons on it were less successful because I deteriorated, or because it did. There are quite a few reasons to believe it was mostly me. But IF that ski is now broken down, then perhaps the comparison is somewhat unfair. With those disclaimers in place, I can compare the current performance of my N1 vs. the current performance of my Denali:

 

- The Denali is far faster across the wakes, and requires less effort.

- The Denali's "natural path" is much wider.

- The Denali turns faster and carries more speed back toward the other direction, BUT as of this moment I find it much less predictable. I expect that time and tuning will change that, but the future is hard to predict.

 

To me, the definition of the honeymoon period is when you think a ski has potential, but you're not there yet. Sometimes you get there and sometimes you don't. When you pull a ski out of the box, set the fin kinda close to factory, and go run the best score you've seen in over a month, I call that something else. ("Science?")

 

Fwiw, my N1 did not have any "honeymoon letdown," at least not until I'd been on it for nearly two years. That ski felt awesome right away and it WAS. My first full year it I ran more -38s than I have in all other years combined.

 

I strongly suspect this Denali has the same package: feels awesome and IS. But of course time will tell more of the story, and since none are available right now, everyone can sit back and wait to see if I soar ... or crash and burn! :)

[Razorskier1]

@Than_Bogan -- your comment above about your old habits coming back (stupid human) is relevant. I find that when I start a new stick I ski it sort of carefully, for lack of a better word, trying to understand what it does well, what it doesn't. Oddly, this more careful skiing is often some of my best! Then a few days later I start pulling hard again and it goes to crap! If the stupid human would just stay fixed for a longer period of time, I think I'd be OK at this sport!

 

That said, I'm excited to hear all of your updates. I've been riding a new Goode FT for the last few weeks and can say for sure that it does some things so well it's really kind of stupid. However, I can also say that the operator for some reason at times feels a need to overwhelm the ski with bad habits, and then, well, we all know what happens! Time will tell if it is "the ski" for me, but so far I really like the ski and how it performs.

[Than_Bogan]

There are so many ski right now that sound really awesome. 99% of the reason I went with Denali is the opportunity to work closely with the actual designers. The fact that it appears to kick all kinds of ass for me is a HUGE BONUS.

[GOODESkier]

@Than_Bogan what other skis have you demoed or skied on in the past couple years?

[Glydon]

@Than_Bogan congrats bro and excellent input into a ski I will NEVER afford ... ;)

[Horton]

Somebody was taking about the honeymoon effect. I think anyone and everyone can suffer from this.

 

The disfunction is that when you are on any different ski it does something better or worse then you old ski. Before I knew better I would get excited about what the ski did better ... always thinking that I could overcome what ever the bad was.

 

Now if a ski is insane the first ride and you actually run more balls then expected.... ROCK ON!

 

[GaryWilkinson]

@Than_Bogan nice skiing and congrats on a PB in darkness!

 

Couple'o thoughts.

 

Do you have the specs to see if the Denali has just more surface area than the Goode? Might that be the reason, or at least a big contributor to the improved acceleration? Doubt it's that simple but I'm curious.

 

2nd, At 56 yrs old and skiing into -32 I will frequently let go of the handle when "it's just not right" in practice pass. Better to be able to have the boat come around and have another pass right away than holding on too long resulting in the next pass is next season.

 

Great skiing my friend and great thread.

[Wish]

@GaryWilkinson the Adams squared use science... Hence the better ski.

[Than_Bogan]

@GaryWilkinson The surface area is far larger and with the low rocker, the area in contact with the water is even "more larger" :).

 

My point about the handle is the exact opposite of what I believe you've interpretted: I'm not trying to get more buoys, I'm trying to AVOID skiing back into the handle. If you keep it in your hand until the rope is taught and it pulls away, then you can't ski into it period. It's safety advice I give people all the time, so I was pretty shocked when I didn't follow it myself!

[Than_Bogan]

DAY THREE

 

Insane crosswind. Normally wouldn't even try -38 (maybe not even -35). Got to 3...

[MikeT]

Hey @Goodeskier. I'm the "practice" driver man. Than was commenting on how well the ski was turning and I just wanted to take "one" quick look at number one. You gotta a problem with that!! Ha ha. Than's got a new ski and has an opportunity to work with the manufacturer on their new ski project, for himself and to give them some feedback. He could keep it all to himself if he wanted to, but he's trying to help as many people as possible. That's what he does. That's all. Practice precision and safety is of the utmost importance. It's all good buddy

[Ed_Johnson]

@MikeT ... I'm 100% on your side..I think when your using a name like Goodeskier, and Than is switching from a Goode to something he feels is better, that says it all.

 

PS: You guys are doing a great job, please keep the info coming. A lot of us are really interested in this ski, and Than is doing us a BIG favor with his evaluation.

 

 

[Razorskier1]

@miket - I have two drivers who sometimes turn for a peak when I'm as short as 38. I'm never worried.

[Wish]

Topic.. Denali.. Not driving. The Denali has peaked my interest. Would rather hear about the ski.

[6balls]

When Wade coached us in a clinic, he drove as well. So did Jodi Fisher. I look here and there when coaching. I see the driver look when I'm skiing...they always think that's funny that I had the time to notice. If it's a serious short-line pass for my skier...I'm all business...no watching.

 

I usually try to catch my primary ski buddy at a ball or two on a practice pass and in the mirror on a pull or two. He generally runs 22 off to 32 off.

 

Depends on the environment, the pass, the skier, the goals. Certain skiers I know I would be all business all of the time b/c that's what they want...but I won't be able to help much on technique. If driving I don't watch my brother ski...but he's at lines short enough that I work my drive and he works his skiing. Big difference as well if I've got a knowledgeable observer to help the skier on technique...I can be all business then at the helm.

[Hugh Nichols]

I agree with Wish, More about the ski please.

[ozski]

The next question is about production, product release, price and availability? Its a good story, exciting but bit of a tease!

[GOODESkier]

@Ed_Johnson I would have the same comment about the above, if he were evaluating the new Nano One FT..........

 

Not picking on @Than_Bogan at all and sorry my two freeze frames high-jacked the thread (Not my intention). I was just surprised at the posted video. I worked hard to line up skiing out here in Oregon for Than and his co-workers when he came this way last summer. Would have done that for him NO MATTER WHAT STICK HE WAS ON!

 

@AdamCord and @adamhcaldwell Send me one to try? @Ed_Johnson if I like it I might change my screen name to @DENALIEEEEEESkier See if it can get me to 3 Ball @ 39.5

[Than_Bogan]

@ozski Not only are these guys smart, but they have a knack for marketing!

 

To all: I will absolutely continue to give information about my experience. Not a lot to say just now because today's conditions sucked, but I hope I am continuing to dial in the settings. Today's settings had a more predictable feel, but I was getting slack. So I went too far with something; guessing length. I guess the best nugget from today was that I got some terrible slack on that -38 at the one ball (maybe due to setup, maybe due to conditions) which I would normally expect to end a -38 attempt with a score of at most 1. So 2.5 is a bit amazing.

 

[AdamCord]

@Than_Bogan I don't know about our understanding of marketing but we figure if the ski is good, testers like you should be able to freely talk about it. If we didn't think the ski was great we wouldn't bother :smile:

 

@GOODESkier @ozski at this point we are building a wait list so PM me if you're interested in adding your name. We'll have info about production soon!

 

@Wish I think you may know more about the ski than you are letting on... :wink:

[Wish]

I think I've just been outed..

[Razorskier1]

@Wish -- I knew it! You sir, are a dog!

[Steven_Haines]

Lol! You Rule @Wish! Now give us your evaluation!

[Wish]

Soon. When I get some time. But will say that a 38 went down this morning with relative ease (ease being relative as 38 is never easy) And after only 7 sets. Did need 6 adjustment between fin and boots. Than's personal feeling of giddy is a good description.

[Adam Caldwell]

We know one thing. We have a very powerful ski. What we don't completely have a grasp on is the ideal "stock" type settings, and we are still even trying to understand sizing. We are diligently working with a few people who thankfully have taken on the challenge to help us discover the sweet spots of this ski for other skiers, setups, techniques, and abilities.

 

@WISH, @Than_Bogan and others, thanks for your patience. I'm confident it will pay huge dividends.

[Than_Bogan]

At the risk of being a brown-noser, I'd also like the thank Adam and Adam for sharing this process with us. It's not for everyone, but it's really exciting to me right now to be part of a post-prototype-pre-production stage. Usually some specialized and/or big name skiers do all this stuff and by the time us mortals know about it, it seems like everything is set in stone. I hope people enjoy watching some of this process, and I know I sure am enjoying being part of it.

 

Because of a desire to figure some things out for the production settings, my next few sets may be on some crazy settings. If I were a "regular" customer, I wouldn't want to take up my time doing stuff like that. But because of the situation, I'm really looking forward to it. I may have a few sets where it's nearly unskiable, but there's the constant "threat" of it being ridiculously awesome, too!

 

Great skiing, btw, @Wish!

[perkinsperkins]

Do the Adams have any interest in feedback from a 22 off skier?

[Than_Bogan]

Oh also, I call "scrawny orangutan" as the name of my soon-to-be-developed settings.

 

So you know who you are if those are exactly the settings you'll need!

[Razorskier1]

@AdamCord and @adamhcaldwell - enough of letting these technically correct, light on the line guys test your skis! Send one to a six foot tall, 190lb guy who can test the ski's ability to perform under pressure :-)!

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@razorskier1 sorry too late :D

[Razorskier1]

@Bruce_Butterfield - RU skiing the BOS Cash Prize? Maybe I'll get to see you ride it then and we can compare notes.

[Adam Caldwell]

I am planning to be at BOS event. If there is interest, I can pack up some extra skis. PM @Cord or myself with your info so I can start prepping a build list.

[Razorskier1]

@adamhcaldwell - at this point the season in MN is nearing an end. I probably wouldn't have time to tell you anything other than how it works in 50 degree water with a drysuit on! Might be interested in giving it a rip in the spring tho!

[Than_Bogan]

Sometimes the lab rat does not get the cheese. Tried some experimental settings today and they did work for me at all. Good data, though.

[Jordan]

Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug!

[Than_Bogan]

Meant to write "did not work," obviously. I'm most likely going to explore some "out there" settings for a bit because Team Denali needs to gather some data. So I may be quiet for a while. (Or maybe my next cahrazy settings will be a miracle. That's part of the fun.)

[ozski]

Hey @Than_Bogan whats the latest?

[chris55]

Simple question : all the testers are skiing at 36mph or some are skiing at 34mph ?

But the infos are so great. It is always super great to try new things and go "sciences"

Thank's, I love it.

@adamhcaldwell do you plan of having skier from Europe testing too ? Let me know

[Wish]

Testing skiers are at;

32mph

34mph

36mph

Male

Female

Different ages.

[Chef23]

@ozski it has been cold and with a wind that blows our courses out. My guess is @Than_Bogan may not have skied much and if he did the water conditions were poor.

[Than_Bogan]

@ozski 'Fraid @chef23 has nailed it. I spent some time as a true lab subject trying out some crazy settings the could have revealed something amazing, but in the end did not. I'm back on some awesome settings now, but we've got dangerous backwash after about 3 passes now, even before taking into account the wind and cold.

 

I still think this ski is absolutely amazing and may just have my lifetime personal best within it. But personally I know I pretty much tune out claims of how great a ski "feels" when not backed by any scores, so I haven't had a lot to say.

 

But anyhow, I've run a lot of -35s on this thing, many of them so trivially that I thought I was at -32 again. But I've had very few serious attempts at -38. Today was just one case of this: my new settings took a couple of passes to get used to, so by the time I had run -32, -28, -32, -35 (silly easy even with the backwash coming on), I aborted my -38 attempt on the way into 1 because the backwash was clearly unsafe. Fwiw, I was early and wide when I called it.

 

AND I want to try a 65" -- that ski is actually still larger that any ski I've ever been on. If the 65" is better than the 66" for me, which sorta seems possible, then Ho Li Sheet. But I'll be lucky to get even one set in decent conditions on that before next May.

 

For those jonesing for more info on this ski, I suggest following Wish's thread for now. He's in a location where he is able to ski some normal conditions, and he's kicking total ass on the Denali!

 

If we can find somewhere to stash all this water, maybe I'll still get a week of good conditions before I am forced to call it a season.

 

But one thing I can tell you is that I am REALLY looking forward to next season!

[Than_Bogan]

Update: I think I am really close to my ideal settings now! I'm still trying to get used to the crazy but-somehow-slack-free speed, but the potential is extremely obvious. Today I ran close to my season best (2.5 vs. 3.5 @ -38) while skiing in insane backwash that I "normally" wouldn't go beyond -32 in! WOW. In fact, I was in great shape into 3 when I tripped on a particularly nasty roller. I dropped back to -32 thereafter, and by running an easier pass I became even more impressed: those conditions were terrible! :)

 

If I don't smoke -38 when the conditions get decent again, I will be embarrassed and shocked.

 

Also funny: -32 seems like a lot of rope with this ski at these settings. I almost had to make a point of not getting too wide, kinda like I normally would if I took a -22 pass. And running -28 seems to be a waste of time now. As long as I am near to these settings on this length Denali, I can't see myself doing any more -28s this fall.

 

These settings are:

DRILLED OUT FIN HOLES (I think this is going to become standard)

Length: tips 6.866”

Depth: 2.463”

Front: 29 3/16“

Rear: 17 3/16“

Wing: 8, flat side down

Tail: .775”

[Ed_Johnson]

@Than_Bogan ... First of all, thanks for the continuing information on this ski, I am really excited about it...Do you know what sizes it will come in, and are there any bigger, +200lb skiers on one?

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Ed_Johnson, I'm 190 and the 67 is perfect (I prefer bigger skis and normally tend toward 68's). I could see the 67 being fine all the way up to 220ish.

[Than_Bogan]

As far as size, I think that's one of the things us Lab Subjects will be helping to inform. If you went by pure surface area, the Denalis are HUGE. The 66 is the largest ski I've ever tried, and the 65 will be the second largest.

 

So as far as just having enough area to support a much larger skier, I'm sure the 67 would be fine. But we (or at least I) don't know yet whether the design of this ski means that the optimal size has much more surface area than a traditional ski, or if it's more like a mid-ride and the proper size will be much shorter than a traditional ski.

 

I'll have very little time on the 65 in what remains of my season, but it certainly will be interesting to compare.

[Ed_Johnson]

@Than_Bogan ... Thanks Than..What is your opinion on weight of the ski. Would you rate it light or heavy, or how does it compare to the weight of your Goode.

[Razorskier1]

Pretty cool. Look forward to seeing the ski at the BOS!

[Than_Bogan]

@Ed_Johnson Very light. Comparable to the N1. I have not actually weighed anything, however.

[GOODESkier]

@Than_Bogan have you gone back to your old ski to try it after the Denali? Just curious what you feel as a difference? Know your climate is much like mine and the days are fading into winter........

[mmosley899]

@Ed_Johnson I got to ride the 67" today, I'm 195 and the ski felt good for my weight. The ski is very light and very wide in front. It turns and accelerates great. I had to move the boots back from the recommended position to get it to turn on my onside, offside was awesome. Easy 28off. I am making a few adjustments and will ride again Sunday.