A Pro Skier's Rant on the U.S. Open and the State of Pro Skiing

[h2oSkiJunkie]

As I previously noted, I would like to make a few comments about the U.S. Open of Water Skiing, before it falls out of memory entirely. Also, as stated previously, I don’t want any of these sentiments to offend the many people who worked long and hard to make this event happen. I deeply appreciate your efforts, as I do the efforts of anyone who puts on any tournament – especially pro events. However, I heard a lot of complaints and dissatisfaction among pro skiers, and had some of my own.

 

Most of these complaints arose around the contrast between the combined U.S. Open and Big Dawg Finals. It was not the first time that pro skiers and Big Dawgs shared a ski tournament. This happens every year at the California Pro-Am. It was, however, the first and only time that the Big Dawgs were treated like the main attraction, and the pro skiers (perhaps with the exception of Jumpers) were begging scraps from the Big Dawgs table.

 

Here are some facts:

 

- The Entry Fee for Pro Skiers was $250

- The Entry Fee for Bid Dawgs was $200

- For that entry fee, Pro Skiers got ONE record capability round for a preliminary. From this one round, 5 skiers would be taken to Lake Ivanhoe for the finals.

- For their entry, Bid Dawgs received TWO record rounds at Sunset Lakes and got to take 16 competitors to Lake Ivanhoe for a head to head final. They also received a banquet, as is customary for all Big Dawg stops.

- Pro Men’s slalom final took less than one hour to run on Saturday.

- Big Dawg slalom ran over three hours on Saturday.

- Pro Men faced the hardest cut in professional slalom history and received one of the lowest payouts ever for an elite event.

- Big Dawgs not only took 16 into the head to head final, but paid 8 places, with medallions for those top 8 finishers and I heard a larger total purse.

 

Now here is where I hope to surprise you. I’m not down on the Bid Dawgs. In fact, I say kudos to them. Most of the Bid Dawg skiers acknowledged that it was a strange state of affairs for them to be getting a far superior tournament experience than the Pro Men and Women. But here’s the thing… The Bid Dawg tour is a branded, cohesive, organized collaboration. Basically, they have their shit together in a way that pro skiers do not. They have a format that they run each tournament, and they stick to it. Thus, once the decision was made to merge the Big Dawg finals with the US Open, the shape and scope of the Big Dawg portion of the tournament was established before the tournament was organized. As a result, the tournament had to be sculpted around their format. Pro slalom has no unification or standard format. As pro skiers we just keep hoping that people will hold tournaments and then we pool our entry fees, which will eventually be divided up, along with a little sponsor cash, amongst the top 5 or 8 or however many that tournament decides to pay.

 

This is not a good state for pro skiing, especially pro slalom to be in. We are talking about the U.S. Open in Orlando, the water ski capitol of the world. I talked with a couple of pro slalom skiers after the U.S. Open who live in the Orlando area and decided not to ski. They were heavily conflicted. They wanted to support the sport. They wanted the thrill of competition. They didn’t even have to travel to get to the event. Yet, they could not justify paying $250 for a one round record tournament, with slight chances of making it into the top 5. 16 pro men got into 41 off. Nate Smith had to run 41 off both in the prelims and in the finals to win – the grand prize of $4,000. I don’t blame those who did not ante up for this hand.

 

I’m also not trying to put this on the sponsors or organizers and blame them for too small of a purse or the wrong format for the event. I would rather focus on the group to which I belong – pro skiers. I can’t help but believe that we can do more to improve our own situation. We need to form an identity. We need to be able to speak as a collective unit so that we have a voice. If we can band together, perhaps it would be easier for us to get a swell of sponsorship behind our events. I’m not even looking out at other sports at this point. I’m merely looking at what the Big Dawgs are doing and recognizing that it’s going better for them than us.

 

I’m not saying I have the answers. I have thoughts, and I know a lot of other pro skiers have ideas as well. All I’m saying is that I’m ready to collaborate. I’m ready to work with the rest of the pro men and women skiers to do whatever we need to do to get to the next level. I love this freaking sport and I want to see it grow. I want to seize the opportunities that I feel like we are now missing. I welcome all ideas and conversation. VAMANOS!

 

[RazorRoss3]

I love watching the Big Dawg, if Pro men and women did a similar format that would be cool although it would turn into 1 event skiing. A consistent format that was carried across all pro events would make for a more easily followed pro tour and could definitely build the sport.

[Chef23]

How did the Big Dawg get organized? I have no idea. It seems that there needs to be some sort of Pro Tour organization that looks at the success that the Big Dawg seems to have had and replicates/expands it. It may need to come from within the Pro Tour community because it doesn't seem like there is an outside agency/sponsor that is going to step up and do it for you.

 

I think to make it more successful you need to put a few people together that are willing to develop a structure for pro tour stops, target locations and solicit sponsors. The Malibu Open seems to be succesful in Milwaukee maybe there could be some work to have a MasterCraft and Nautique Open in other locations with similar formats. It is going to take a lot of hard work from some of the people with vested interest in its success to move things forward.

 

I don't know who you are (I am sure Horton does) but attaching your name to the post would help as well.

[Wish]

Nice perspective and certainly food for thought. Anyone know if the Pros had a hand in the tours back in the 90s?

[Horton]

@wish I do not think so. I am pretty sure World Pub (owners of WaterSkiMag) ran the show and paid for it with mostly beer money.

[Horton]

@Chef23 the BigDawg and a proper Pro event are two different animals. A BD is like a friendly poker game. Everyone puts in there $200 and someone takes home the pot. At a real Pro event someone puts up a bunch of cash because it serves a marketing or promotional objective.

 

See http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/14484/what-is-an-event-what-is-a-pro-event-what-is-a-tournament

[santangelo]

Interesting thoughts.

With the BD tournament not filling all 40 positions in the finals (so I heard) it appears to be on the decline like pro events in the early 90's. Have they lost perspective on what got them to the point they were a few years ago? How will they respond?

[LeonL]

The scorebook from the prelims at Jacks lists 31 Big Dawgs. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't it used to be 50 qualifiers for the finals? Now it's 40 qualifiers and only 31 entered.

[RazorRoss3]

I think that is the two tournament qualifier rule change. I think fewer stops with simpler access to the finals appeals to more skiers and possibly a consolation bracket since many of the guys who run scored of 3@38-3@39 know they can't beat Rodgers, Miller, etc... If you know you are in prime shape to get the boot in round one then the $200 entry fee plus travel plus time away from family/work/other obligations is harder to rationalize. Consolation bracket probably wouldn't even need to pay out, just allows for more skiing.

 

I think we're moving off topic though, weren't we supposed to brainstorm how to bring about a consistent pro tour format that likely appeals to all 3 disciplines but allows a larger number of truly great skiers to participate in the finals? I mean 16 pros run into 41 and 5 get to the finals? Your pushing close to a 25% pass rate there. I also think the final 8 should almost always be a head to head because I think that's really cool to watch.

[BRY]

@h2oSkiJunkie "I would rather focus on the group to which I belong – pro skiers. I can’t help but believe that we can do more to improve our own situation. We need to form an identity. We need to be able to speak as a collective unit so that we have a voice. If we can band together, perhaps it would be easier for us to get a swell of sponsorship behind our events." " I have thoughts, and I know a lot of other pro skiers have ideas as well. All I’m saying is that I’m ready to collaborate. I’m ready to work with the rest of the pro men and women skiers to do whatever we need to do to get to the next level."

I think these statements of yours are the way forward for Pro skiing and the proper attitude. No one else cares about it as much as you all (Pro's) nor has as much a vested interest. There just doesn't seem to be enough incentive for someone outside to do it. Get something going with a cohesive pro organization (the talent) and there will be a basis to attract outside support.

[T_C]

Hope this is not off topic but if we are brainstorming here is another idea.

What would happen if the boat manufacturers (Nautique, Master Craft, Malibu, Centurion) put together a "team" of their pro skiers and each put up a sum of money for a Professional Ski league (think NFL). During the season the manufacturers each put on (pay for) a tournament (or two) at a different sites around the country. Points are accumulated by each team based on the finish positions of their team members. At the end of the season they put on a Super Bowl for the top two teams with a winner takes all payout. The manufacturers stand to gain the most form the growth and recognition of the sport and they are in the best position to promote the sport and their brand. Just a thought.

[h2oSkiJunkie]

Let's not get too far off topic talking about the Big Dawg. The reason they did not fill was lack of organization. I was standing with two Big Dawg skiers who would have entered, if they had known that they could. They thought they were too far down the list to be considered in the top 40. They came just to watch, but would have gladly paid and skied if they had known they would be allowed. Apparently communication within the BD tour, is not far different from Pro Skiing.

 

On the pro skiing front, it is absolutely the case that the skiers need to be the ones to step up first. If the athletes can form a united image, brand and voice, at least then we can have something to show sponsors when we ask for their involvement. The skiers are what unite the several strong events that are going (Malibu Open, California Pro-Am, U.S. Open) and the new ones that make attempts (Atlanta Pro-Am, Malibu Cup, Australian Open). These events, as well as the Moomba Masters, World Championships and the Masters are essentially all organized by different, though sometimes overlapping, groups. The only thing that ties them all together as a "pro tour" is that the same skiers show up. If these skiers had a brand/image/organization, like PWA (Pro Waterskiers Association), there could be a central hub of information on the PWA website. The site could introduce the athletes to the public with head-shots and short bios, show the world rankings list, show prior "pro tour" results, show upcoming tour stops, explain the sport to lay people, have a condensed video archive of all prior tour stops (which skiers could own or lease the rights to if they had an organization). Industry sponsors would find a handy place to advertise. Then, we could present this bundle to next level sponsors to show what they could get involved with. I have no delusions that we would land Bud or Coors in our current state of affairs, but those are something to strive for down the road. Perhaps we could get 5-Hour Energy or Aflac or a health and wellness company. At least we could start knocking on doors and making calls with some degree of credibility.

 

Another avenue that seems worth pursuing is connecting the pro tour with a noble cause or non-profit. I for one would be happy to ski in pink if we could raise awareness for cancer, hold a fund raiser at every tour stop and get the Susan Komen Foundation to publicize the crap out of us at each spot to turn out some locals. This is just one example but there are many organizations with massive followings and reach that we could try to partner and co-brand ourselves with.

 

This thread is running quite actively on facebook as well. I don't intend on re-writing all of my thoughts from there in this forum or bringing up all of the ideas being tossed around. I would like to glean from the discussion in both places. If you want to see what else is being said, track down my most recent post on FB too.

 

- Corey Vaughn

[Texas6]

@Horton - your "like" icon uses the index finger instead of the thumb in the previous post? Not sure why I noticed that

[Broussard]

@Texas6 That's not a "like" it's a "promote."

[jcamp]

@h2oSkiJunkie a very similar sounding idea was outlined in the last issue of WaterSki magazine. Take a look at page 56.

[Jordan]

I seem to remember way back in time that there was a movement for the skiers to take over the pro tour. I believe that Camille Duval-Hero had something to do with it. The motivation at the time was for the skiers to create a "player's tour" and take control of a growing sport for the benefit of the participants.

 

Someone on here will know more detail.

 

Seems like that is what's needed today, albeit for far different reasons.

[Chad_Scott]

First of all, I must say that I agree with Cory. The Big Dawg and the US Open should have been completely separate events. It is unfortunate that the Big Dawg Skiers received more time on the water than the pros. Our purse has been set and as Horton has stated it is not much more than a back yard poker game. We have several qualifiers which pay a total purse of $3000.00 This money is payed by the host site thru the entry fees. So its not like we are raising money from Sponsors. As for the $12,500 for the finals. Well that is primarily provided by entry fees and practice money, 40 skiers at $200.00 a piece raises a large portion of the purse. And then practice money for practice, hell Miller adds another $500.00 to the purse with his sets alone. LOL

 

As for the state of professional waterskiing, It is time for the skiers to step up and not just expect events to be planned and organized for them to ski in. As one of the people that has put on the Malibu Open for the past seven years, I can tell you that raising money for these events is very difficult. From a sponsors perspective, What does the money they provide actually get them. A few banners at the site, advertisement during a web cast to how many viewers. We have purposely started to involve the skiers in the running of the Malibu Open and for the most part these skiers have responded by helping us with the set up and running of the tournament. However when it comes to sponsorship most of the skiers are looking for their own individual sponsors and not looking to recruit sponsors to host events so that there is actually "Professional Ski Events".

 

One of the things that the Pro Ski Tour, founded by Dana Reed, has focused on is providing as much of the money as possible to the athletes. Because this is Dana's vision it is something we will continue to do. With that being said, if anyone wants to step up and sponsor the Malibu Open or find sponsors for the Malibu Open, I can assure you that the proceeds will go directly to the skiers. April has for several years offered free entry to any skier that recruits a sponsor for the event. Can anyone guess how many skiers actually came up with a sponsor for the event?

 

It takes more than a few people to get the pro water ski tour off of the ground. We all have to think outside the box and find outside the industry sponsors and actually provide a marketing value for the dollars they spend. It easy to say what all we can do, but coming up with a solution is much more difficult. I will be in charge of the Malibu Open this year and I am always open to any outside assistance to make this event better.

[ToddL]

Hot Summer Nights Pro Tour - time to revitalize...?

[ToddL]

Honestly, I think creating an organization just for Pro Skiers is an excellent idea. It not only allows for coordination and focus on the very different needs of this community of skiers; but, it also disconnects them from the amateur level of skiing. That frees up that organization to adjust to best meet it's skiers' needs. If Pro and AWSA were separate, we could revisit the rules and tournament structures in both camps to align to what makes sense for each.

[Stevie Boy]

@h2oSkiJunkie You need Pro's to stand together and dictate, how they see things and then work it out with the Authorities, the only problem I see is the Sponsored skiers are pretty much over a barrel as they have to compete to keep the sponsorship coming, really the sponsors should be involved it is in their interest, not only to promote their skiers and make sure they get a fair deal but to promote the sport and themselves, so many people doing their own thing

"I'm Alright Jack"

Is it Apathy, Is it because nobody wants to rock the boat, Is it because the few walking away with the money don't really care about the others.

The way I see it the Pro Skiers are the ELITE and should be treated as such, most Professional Athletes in all other sports, are treated fairly and correctly, things need to change, People who represent the Sport should have a Meeting with all Pro Skiers, Sponsors and workout a formula for any Pro event to benefit all.

I cannot believe the sport I love is in such a mess, how long has this sport been on the go and we still have no got our act together.

Sorry but it frustrates the ###P out of me.

 

[Chef23]

@h2oSkiJunkie Corey first congratulations on running 1@43 last weekend awesome accomplishment.

 

I think you are on the right track of trying to get the Pro Tour level skiers organized and taking responsibility for the events. It is going to be a lot of work but I do believe it will need to be a grass roots effort by the skiers to get it going. Finding sites similar to Milwaukee where a non skiing audience might stumble on the event and stay and watch for a while and bring some value to sponsors would be helpful. This would allow you to try to find local sponsors that might kick in some money to help fund the prize pool beyond the pros entry fees.

 

I think you are on the right track but you need buy in from your fellow competitors to make it work. If you could target 1-2 new events next year similar to Malibu in addition to the other events that are already scheduled (Masters, Moomba) it would be a start.

 

In addition if you put together some sort of standings based on performance in a set of events that the general skiing public would understand it would help as well. Most people don't fully understand either the world rankings or the elite list.

[Than_Bogan]

One thing my dad keeps bringing up is the idea that RV owners would be the ideal audience: willing and able to travel to semi-remote locations and possibly looking for entertainment.

 

No clue if he's right, but maybe it's worth thinking about if there is a way to create some kind of RV-friendly "festival" that brings in this potential audience? He seems to believe that pretty much every RV owner knows every other RV owner so if they actually enjoy it they'll advertise to each other.

[crashman]

Hold an event at the horse track. Would I be banned for life if I bet on skiing?

 

[The_MS]

It would be interesting to hear from the organizers of WWSP that was around back in 2007. I know they tried the Daytona event and a few other stops. I wonder what was the demise of that cause was?

[MAD11]

@h2oSkiJunkie awesome skiing man. Proud of ya. I said to @superchicken Corey is now officially a bad ass with that score. She disagreed saying you already were because she thinks you look like Jeff Ament from Pearl Jam. Chick skiers always surprise me. Never know what the response is going to be. Congrats man.

 

By the way, agree with your points above. Better say that so I don't get a bunch of flags for being off topic. (Not that I care)

[Wish]

Hmmm.. Loud boats and twitchy horses..guessing no. Will say that I skied on a privately lake in New Smyrna and the hourses on property would run along side the boat during slalom passes. Was pretty cool actually. Daytona 500 the lake is pretty far from spectators and exposed to coastal winds. If memory serves me they had close to white caps when they did the demo that day. But love the idea of crowds already there.

[DmaxJC_ski]

There is lots of money up here, unfortunately with any sign of adversity people/business's tend to lock down, the MC shootout for example.

What if there was an event that combined different interests, like a music festival that just so happens to have a professional waterski tournament during, or maybe a slalom comp up the 18th fairway during the weekend rounds at the WM Phoenix open, tpc Scottsdale. Ok that's a little extreme, but along those lines, professionals advocating for other professionals.

 

If I had a world class facility you can believe that I would try and host a world class event. Or a really good party at least. I mean really some of our crappy little rodeos pay better then these slalom events, there is even a demolition derby up north that used to pay $50k

 

 

[Stevie Boy]

Moomba seems to work, do they get much foot fall, I can see that they have a fairground there, not sure what else ?

Could you tie things in with, sky diving, music festival, Car show/Auction or bring the BMX event to the site, it would take effort,and somebody is going to have to put their hand in their pocket, you would not get away with free entry, but does free entry make it seem like it is not worth going to see ?

[walleye]

Where is USA waterski to organize, attend and promote. Knee board & ski racing taking all there time. AWSA please.

[AdamCord]

@h2oSkiJunkie really good points and nice work bringing this topic back to the table. @Chad_Scott has great ideas too and has been behind the scenes of a lot of events, so listen to this man. There has been talk about organizing something like this for years and some things have been tried with varying levels of success.

 

As someone who used to be in a position to make marketing decisions for a water sports company I have something of a unique perspective. This is a capitalistic society and for any of this to work there need to be true economic benefits for those involved. In a sport this size there isn't a lot of capital to go around so it really makes sense for the skiers to be the ones organizing this. A third party group would need to be making a profit organizing and putting on events in order to do it well. There are some great volunteers in this sport who have put on events in recent years but asking them to keep this up and to expand is asking a lot. Wakeboarding Mag puts on the Wake pro tour as a for profit venture, but they are barely able to keep it going every year, and they are always begging for money. I don't see Water Ski mag or any other group stepping up and doing that for water skiing (BOS pro tour? :# ), and that's ok.

 

There are plenty of very smart and talented people in the pro skier ranks. If organized properly the amount of work involved could be divided in a way that no one has to quit training as a pro skier to put on the events. Pick who you think should be in the group (top 30 in each division on the ranking list? Anyone with an open rating?), form a group (Pro Water Ski Assn or something) and make people sign up for it and possibly pay dues and then vote on a president, treasurer, sponsorship coordinator, event planner, etc. every year. That way no one person feels like they have to take this on by themselves, and everyone can have a vote each year and a say in how things operate. With people like April Coble, Jon Travers, Casey Mommer, Zack Worden, Freddy Krueger, etc. among the ranks you can easily assemble a team that knows what they are doing. Just as an example of how other small sports are doing this, see http://www.psca.com/. This is a small non spectator friendly sport (who goes to watch people shoot clay pigeons?) but they are organized with a pro tour, and they are able to bring in decent prize money.

 

Lastly and back to my original point...It has to make sense economically for sponsors to invest in these kinds of events. I know big picture we want to expose more people to the sport and get more kids involved, but when you are running a business and you need to see return on marketing investment this quarter, it's about whether or not sponsoring an event will bring you new customers now. In order to bring in sponsors you need to cater to them. Want to get a local car dealership? Put a car on a barge behind the ramp that jumpers go over. Want a boat manufacturer? Let them put potential customers in the boat during the event. Want a bar/restaurant? Hire a DJ and get the party going and let them sell booze, etc. Having my company's name on a banner on the far side of the lake is nice, but it's not going to do much realistically, and sponsors know that.

 

Corey I hate to say it but you spoke first so I think it's up to you to get the ball rolling. >:)

[rockdog]

I cannot comment on the events in the US, but @Stevie Boy yes Moomba does work. More than that it is extremely successful due to what I would say, on top the hard work of ski nut volunteers and the Victorian Waterski Association, is a perfect storm of reasons.

 

We have a large sports mad city with a good stretch of river right next to the CBD with great parkland either side, it's in the heart of the Melbourne sports precinct. Moomba is a long running festival for families who can enjoy the rides etc and sit down on the grass to watch the skiing. Without a doubt the ski event adds to the excitement of the festival, it wouldn't be the same without mums, dads and kids being able to sit down and watch the best compete on The Yarra.

 

Many of these people are not even boating folks, yet they love watching the river action and it all contributes to massive crowds. Not insignificant I guess also is that Monday is a public holiday, which adds to the festive feel.

 

I can't imagine all of those things can be done anywhere, but in my view simply being able to run an event right next to a large city is a great benefit, lots of cities have rivers running through/next to them don't they? The Malibu Open seems similar in this way, where there's a city there's people. No need for them to travel, public transport is available and council is usually happy to have events to promote themselves.

 

I dunno, taking some ideas from successful events seems like a good place to start...

 

[lcarnes]

@AdamCord You hit the nail on the head. Having just done two Pro-Am events at what I believe is a world class facility, we jumped through every hoop we could think of to get sponsors value for their investment. Our intent was to provide the full "wrap-around" for the bigger sponsors, including a secondary boat show on the busiest intersection leading to the public lake near the ski lake, premium booth locations in the festival, and premium locations near the lake as well. The secondary boat location would have provided an extremely high traffic place to show off their wares, including wakeboard boats, plus would have attracted even more people to the event. Not only are they stretched thin on dollars, they also are stretched on people; it was too much for them to pull off, which was a huge disappointment for me, and for them. I wanted to show them we could help them sell boats and ski gear. Ironically, we also had sporting clays as part of the event as well.

 

Profits are required for anything to be sustainable, whether you are a small event organizer, huge business or non-profit charity. The only distinction between for profit and non profit is where the money goes. This is the line of thinking we have to have in order to turn this thing around. The idea of a true organization, with dues and decision-makers at the base of it is really worth considering.

[ALPJr]

Great discussion @h2oskifreak. Lots of interesting replies. Imo professional skier emphasis should be on world class athletic development, performance, income and community outreach. Also there is need for a strong leader at the helm of an organizing committee that overseas marketing and endorsements, site selection, event scheduling, travel, youth skier development, and ancillary entertainment and attractions.

[Kelvin]

@AdamCord, I've been doing the webcast for the Malibu Open and other events for the past few years. As an industry insider, what could I do different on the webcast to make it more meaningful for the sponsors?

[Skoot1123]

I wonder what it would take to get some publicity during "downtime" of an NFL, NHL, MLB game or even soccer on the large scoreboard. There are lots of timeouts during professional sporting events where items are "plugged". Would be nice to take advantage of it if possible!

[Horton]

@Skoot1123 tens of thousands of dollars

[Skoot1123]

@horton - so take whatever it costs, do some case studies on where you would get the largest audience that would take notice of what is being played on the jumbo-tron and make an investment. I know I am making it sound a lot simpler than it really is - but you gotta start simple. The ROI wouldn't be immediate - but honestly what successful entity DOESN'T have to start with something on the line? An allocation of funds from USA WSA, a couple of the boat manufacturers, and probably some private funding would get the ball rolling. Using a link to a facebook page or some other social site would allow those who are intrigued to look at it further. Give links to manufacturers on the Facebook page etc. Even a shoutout to BOS would be a good start!

 

Who knows - perhaps these are already ideas that have been discussed and been shot down - but worth a try at least.

[WBLskier]

Do pro skiers in other countries make any money? Is it like soccer in the US where in other countries it is a bigger deal? Too bad...elite athletes like that should get more recognition. Did they get paid back in the "bud tour" days? I remember a lot of people going to watch back then.

[AdamCord]

@lcarnes props to you for hosting that event, it's sounds pretty awesome!

 

@Kelvin webcast is tough. From what I've seen you've done a fantastic job with it in the past. In reality only hardcore skiers are the ones who will watch a webcast. It's a double edge sword because on one hard those are the people who will buy new ski gear and boats, on the other hand the numbers are always going to be small. So I think the webcast needs to be catered to sponsors who are selling to that market. It's already being done to some extent but commercials and interviews with company reps and skiers using sponsor gear are a big deal. There's a lot of dead time during a webcast, and sponsors may not know they can do that sort of thing, so you have to reach out to them.

 

Looking bigger picture though I think an edited/shortened version of the webcast that is put together after the event (as quickly as is feasible) will reach a lot more people. I would definitely consider myself a hardcore fan of pro skiing and I'm lucky to catch only a part of one or two webcasts a year. It's just hard to find the time to watch an event in the middle of a saturday in the summer. Even if a recording is put up on the web after the fact these videos are looooong. Too long. Show me 38 off and shorter for the finals, the best jumps for the jumpers, etc with some simple commentary and it will reach far more viewers. @OB1 did something like that after the Atlanta event one year and I thought it was great. Now package it for a sponsor by showing their logo, commercial, product, etc. throughout and you've got something to sell. You can show it will reach thousands of people, as opposed to a few hundred for a webcast.

 

Anyway those are details that can be worked out later. First we need a group who will lead the charge and organize.

[ToddL]

For marketing to truly work, you have to first know who your target audience is, then determine where/how to get the maximum number of those people exposed to what you are selling in a cost effective way that results in greater revenue than marketing dollars spent. (How many potential water skiers are at the football game? Sorry, I just don't see the net positive cash flow there.)

 

That doesn't mean that the right venue and target audience isn't out there. Brainstorming needs to continue. What is the competitive skier profile? What is the competitive boat purchaser profile? What do we all have in common? What cross over interests/activities align and correlate with our demographic? When, these answers are known, then the target audience for marketing is clearer and cross promotional investments are more likely to yield new revenue within our sport.

[Horton]

I have thought a lot about his problem over the years and am not sure there is a solution.

 

Let me illustrate. If you are reading this, chances are you are between 35 and 55 years old, male, educated, athletic and at least upper middle class. You and the rest of the Ballers are in the demographic most marketers desire. Now imagine you had to explain to your employer why they should advertise on BallOfSpray.... There is no question that the readership is a prime demographic and the cost is reasonable.

 

There will be lots of different reasons why not. I would propose for that in most instances the ROI on BallOfSpray banners is better than sponsorship of a pro event. If you can not sell your boss on a few hundred a month worth of advertising how the hell are you going to get tens of thousands for a pro tournament?

 

[Horton]

PS sorry about being Captain Negative

[RazorRoss3]

To a certain point I think we need a co existent format that the skiers enjoy and can be run in a realistic time frame (a weekend). It's hard to sell our product (tournament skiing) to marketers when every event looks different.

[The_MS]

Kinis and beer

[The_MS]

 

[ALPJr]

Are there other professional sports to model after? Pro Beach Volleyball, Pro Surfing, Pro Skiing, Pro Snowboarding, Pro Skateboarding...

[DmaxJC_ski]

@Kelvin find a way to hack the webcast to a live sports channel.... I'm sure there are guys that for the right price could make that happen.... Lol

 

Which pro event generally has the best turnout / exposure / payout ?

[slow]

Hard to have a sustainable "pro" event if people aren't willing to pay to watch.

 

Alpine skiing is a prime example.

[JDM]

There simply isn't a sport that is even remotely commercially successful that pro-slalom skiing can be modeled after that I can see. While being the most difficult sport I have ever participated in, it is a niche sport with massive access barriers. The access to good water, courses and proper set ups (boats, ZO, skis, gloves etc...) is simply too hard despite the efforts of some to increase the availability. Even with that access it then takes a decent free skier possibly years to ever achieve running a full pass.

 

Snow Skiing and Volleyball are two things tossed out as examples to follow, but that just doesn't work as comparable sports. I pick those two because they are two sports I also participate in. The snow skiing industry is massive with tens of millions of skier days available to the general public regardless of where you live be it in Colorado or Houston TX (the true family vacation that everyone can do all day and return somewhere new and exciting every year). Same with Volleyball, it takes a sand pit available in just about every town, a net and a ball, thus, millions of people play volleyball everyday.

 

Water skiing is just not the same. There may be vast numbers of water skiers out there on public wakes getting their swerve on, but that isn't slalom skiing in a course, let alone shortline skiing. I can't count the number of times on our lake where we have had good free-skiers come, see @Marco run a 35 off pass and go I can do that and then spend and hour failing to make it around 2 ball @15 off 28 MPH. Contrast that with a a $10 nastar course lets any intermediate snow skier experience completing a GS course and get a fictional medal or a mini park that lets an intermediate hit a two foot rail so they can identify with a snow-skiing event; thus, snow skiing events have sponsors. There is an access and connection issue that is so incredibly hard to overcome that it makes the idea of profitable and viable pro-tour slalom skiing so difficult. For reasons enumerated by others sponsors need to see a reward and benefit for their advertising and sponsorship dollars and due to the access issues and lack of connection between your average water skier who makes up the bulk of those spending their money on this sport and short-line slalom skiing, that reward or benefit is so minimal because it reaches so few.

 

How the heck do we ever overcome these issues is far beyond me, but the problem is real, but never truly acknowledged. It is why the big dog is successful, because as Horton puts it, it is dudes putting money in a pot to be split by the winners. You are taking home your fellow competitors money, much like poker.

 

I do like the idea of a pro-waterskiers association of some sort as organization is needed and AWSA isn't going to provide that type of organization for the best of the best. They are too busy limiting access to the sport through insane requirements to hold even class c tournaments.

 

 

 

 

[DanE]

Compare water skiing to surfing.

How many people gets to surf in real life (not talking about surfing behind a wakeboard boat)

For the average Joe hitting the big surf is not going to happen yet they have pros and my guess is the money does not come from board manufacturers.

It's the clothes companys and sunglass industries.

Fashion related to a cool outdoors sport sells to the masses and I believe waterskiing needs to find a way to bring those companys to the scene.