Dockside pull simulation device

[Golfguy]

Some years ago there was an apparatus that one would attach a slalom hand to and lean against. It had a leaf spring that would allow the person to flex the machine similar to a real boat pull. It was bolted to the dock. The question, where can I get one of these?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[PBD]

It was called the Perfect Pull.

 

You might be able to find one online someplace.

[MattP]

This picture makes me laugh every time.

[mwetskier]

@Golfguy -the patent on that device is bound to be on line some where and your local welding shop can make it for you for less than the original price i would think. patent is long since expired.

[Horton]

It's a nice idea but honestly I think it's a complete waste of time and money

[ToddL]

It helps you practice being light on the line.

[ToddL]

c'mon, @MattP... sarcasm, dude.

[MattP]

One day @Horton will implement my sarcasm font.

[ToddL]

http://glennmcanally.com/sarcastic/

[Golfguy]

Thanks to all, very helpful. I think of it as a stretching device.

[colo_skier]

@Horton Not being funny here for once. Why do you think this device is a waste of time? If the water is solid and land based is all you have what would you suggest is a better emulation method? I try to use cable machines to develop better stacked conditioning in the off season and am wondering if I am off track doing that.

[colo_skier]

@Horton Looked at some more sites about this and it would appear that it is the static portion of this that is the issue. The cable machine set up I try to use is obviously not static and more of the pulley and a bucket type of exercise. So I think I am good on this . No need to respond.

[ToddL]

My only concern with this type of device and others is that the user avoid the concept of "pulling". In slalom, we should be leaning while stacked, not pulling. Pulling suggests using your biceps. Therefore, with a pulley/cable type system, the user should be working their lower body only if making movements to extend/retract the cable.

[Horton]

@colo_skier I think it is a very well intentioned waste of time and money. A static drill has very little to do with learning to be in a good position behind the boat. It is totally unrealistic (note the 90 degree angle).

 

For a few minutes worth of conceptualizing I guess it makes sense but if you had one and you wanted to give me I would not pay the shipping or make room in my garage for it.

 

What ever value this thing has you can get 99% by tying off a handle to a post.

[Horton]

@colo_skier I am not sure what your cable system looks like and it it makes you happy knock yourself out but I have a lot of trouble believing it helps your technique during ski season. You simply can not simulate skiing on dry land.

[ToddL]

@Horton - FYI - I am not endorsing a pulley system. I am just warning that "pulling" in a leaning position is not good.

[aupatking]

That machine came with the Greg Lawrence "how to cut hard" DVD, standard

[ozski]

What are the chances of being able to strike the pose behind a boat if you can't get it right on a post of contraption? Unless the handle breaks I don't think anyone is getting hurt so let the kids play, if you don't like it look away.

[OldboyII]

It would work better if we mount this device on aquaplane and will exhercise behind the boat. )

[Horton]

@ozski there is no harm except the cost or wasted effort.

[Fehlindra]

haven't still tested the thingy but now its winter and time to try out some crazy things while we here in cold regions waiting for da spring http://www.ballofspray.com/forum#/discussion/14328/dry-land-practice

 

[ALPJr]

jmho... a good cross training move for dry land and off season workouts with that contraption or a home made rig too.

[wawaskr]

This is the guy - look under "Education":

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/markkovalcson

 

[Stevie Boy]

Going by the picture does that mean that you should be OPEN to the Boat ?

[teammalibu]

Lonnie Harris built a foot support on his Bowflex and attached a handle for simulating the stacked position! It works better beacuse you can add or takaway the weight rods to get the resistance you want and it is not static! trying to get mine setup to work on over the winter

[WBLskier]

I use the cable machine every winter. Doesn't help with form but it fires up the muscle groups used and helps me ease into the spring a ton. I am far less sore and less prone to back problems. Last year I did a bad job of it and took an extra month to get into shape when the season started.

[PBD]

wawaskr Posts: 49 Baller

7:07AM Flag

This is the guy - look under "Education":

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/markkovalcson

 

that is the guy, back in the day he was very active on the waterskiing news groups and by very active I mean he would post on every subject.

 

I could go on but Mama always said if you can't say anything nice....

[Horton]

@PBD if there is nothing nice to say it seems like a subject I want skip....

[ToddL]

So, I spent some of those "too much time on my hands" minutes searching for two videos which I know exist. No luck. Both were of some water ski training center in some other country.

 

The trick training video showed a skier doing toe tricks while sliding over a rolling carpet (similar to a snow skiing carpet but less angled and running in the opposite direction. What was neat about that setup is that the skier could wrap in or wrap out and advance on the "boat" in a way more like real skiing.

 

The slalom device was crazy. I'm not sure I can even put it into words. The skier was only some sort of track upon which a "ski" surface could slide up (putting it on edge), but the ski surface also could pivot 180. The handle was attached to an arm with weights. Basically, the skier would lean away from the wall with his feet in stance pointing to the left against the weighted arm, the arm would not allow the skier to lean over too far. The skier would relax the lean and come back up towards the wall on top of the ski surface, then pivot 180 so as to point his stance to the right and lean again away from the wall. Thus, he could switch from on side to off side without lifting his feet.

 

Again, I can't find the videos, but I know I've seen them. Crazy contraption for slalom. The trick one was pretty cool though.

[mmosley899]

Interesting thread. I have one of the prototypes of this device, built by an old friend ski partner. Useful in the off season for sure, and as warm up on the dock.

https://www.google.com/patents/US5342266?dq=ininventor:Robert+ininventor:Dailey&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBDgKahUKEwj04bmF8InJAhVGPT4KHSZzDxk

[mwetskier]

@ToddL -this is the YouTube link to the slalom training device but the video is no longer there. i have a windows media video version archived somewhere. pm me your email address and if i can find it i'll send you a copy.

[rab]

@ToddL , I've seen that video before and the two contractions are the coolest looking dry land training devices I've seen.

[Nando]

http://http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5318488.pdfHere's a patent that was issued to a buddy of mine in the '90s. He brought the prototype to a couple of pro tour events and some local tournaments. Once you got the hang of it, it was a pretty effective dynamic slalom workout and actually was kind of useful for working on technique. It really worked the same muscle groups. It was also really complicated and heavy.

 

[RazorRoss3]

On that thing you are pulling away from the apparatus/boat. Behind the boat I think of pulling across. For stretching and maybe looking at your stack it probably works but for that I have an old handle tied to a post.

 

I would agree with Horton that any potential benefit is likely not worth the cost/space consumption.

[EricKelley]

This does have merit. I tie a handle to a post in my basement. The isotonic exercise is great to build strength in shoulders, neck and legs. I just do this as part of my weight workout. To increase the load, bend your knees as you would in an ideal lean position. In years when I have done this, it has really limited the soreness in the spring. I try to hold the position as long as I can both sides. Everyone give a rip and post back. You'll be surprised at how quickly your strength will fade. Just be sure to get something for a foot stop or you'll crash hard.

[adkh2oskier]

@"Eric Kelley" Agree, have a handle in my basement tied to a 6X6, Helps a little with the soreness in the spring and I find it helps a little with the conditioning of my hand calluses as well.

[ozski]

ahhhh so the closet pullers are all coming out now. I just have an old freestyler handle from the 90's tied up to my cable setup, I find it good for a stretch. When I was injured (elbow tendon) last season I found it was a good way to gauge my strength and recovery. And I like the stretch it gives me.

 

 

[skee]

Built this little rig with a skateboard mounted on a chair swivel. I have a handle with heavy shock cord tied off on my basement support post. I can pull side to side. Just gotta figure how to add angle to the board.

It's not perfect but it does give you a pretty good workout.

 

[Chef23]

I could see these devices helping your ski muscles and if you focus on a good stack I don't see a downside.

[sunvalleylaw]

Dragging this thread up again, as I am getting set to build myself a "perfect pull" substitute. I am looking for the dimensions of the device that used to be sold, made out of metal with long legs that went out on the dock at an angle, with a metal plate angled like a slalom ski on edge to stand against, and the handle going over a rubber "pulley" sort of thing down to be secured at the base. The handle line folded over the pulley pretty low.

 

At one point, I had a line on a used one, but shipping made it prohibitive to obtain. So, will build my own out of wood, secured against posts supporting my carport, once I can figure out the correct edge angle, anchor point for the line, distance between edge of the "ski" and the actual handle, and height at which point the line will go out to the handle. I will try to figure out a way to mimic the rubber pulley to give it some give. EDIT: After reading through the rest of the thread, I am going to see if I can figure out a way to make the angle "across the wake" in relation to the pull of line adjustable so it is not 90 degrees across as was the case with the Perfect Pull. My goal in doing this is to make something where I can experiment with and find a taller, more leg extended lean (not pull) away from the boat, with my balance stacked better over my feet. I do not plan on spending hours on it statically, but just as an aid in finding some physical feedback in my feet and body so I can then take that out on the water and do some whip drills and other things to work on it out there. Getting a better posture without separation between hips and handle, and more efficient lean using that better posture, is my primary goal this year.. Though I will not achieve this goal fully on dry land, I think for a guy with limited water time, it at least can be a tool on the path.

 

If anyone has a Perfect Pull and can give me some measurements, let me know. It is a starting point.

[BraceMaker]

I would think you'd want to figure out a way to have the line angle almost behind you?

 

If its 90 to the side you're leaning away from it, if its any angle forwards of you you'll have to lean "back" against the tension of the line (which is of course what you are trying not to do) If it was any slight angle behind you you'd have to lean forwards to put tension on the line which is of course more of the idea.

 

 

Your pulley would be easiest to just buy a trailer roller

 

To offset it just have the roller mounted on a shaft that has some spacers, move the spacer to the other side of the roller and you've done an offset. Make several sets of smaller spacers and you can adjust the spacing at whatever increment you feel is necessary. Seems like a lot of fab to lean against it.

[Horton]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't think these kinds of efforts have much if any value.

[ALPJr]

Occasionally I like it as part of a dockside warm up on a ski day and once in a while I add a little of it to my stretching practice during the ski season.

[skibug]

Anyone can get into a perfectly stacked position on dry land in a static situation. The key is being able to get there through the dynamic transition at the end of the turn; and then hold it for the correct amount of time with the correct amount of load. This cannot be simulated; you need to be on the end of the rope, behind the boat.

[sunvalleylaw]

@skibug , makes sense. But I need to practice the position statically also before I can work maintaining stack and balance through transition. In snow skiing, we would call that finding static balance, and learning to maintain dynamic balance. But I need to work on my posture/position/stack before I can really move it. Gotta stand in balance before you can move in balance. And I will add for waterskiing, and with managing load/pull of the boat/line tension. We don't have to deal with that on the snow, and I need to revise what I do on the water. The static thing is just a tool, or step on a path, not a cure all.

[Than_Bogan]

Drills always only simulate a narrow portion of the actual event. And drills are a huge part of the training for pretty much every sport anyone has ever trained for. They aren't magic -- they're just a way to learn one little thing that is much harder to learn when the entire sport is happening at the same time.

[sunvalleylaw]

@Than_Bogan , yep. Agreed. And when I can get on the water, I was going to start out this year after warming up with some whip drills. Haven't looked up Seth's vids on that again, but will. Hoping that step by step, some dryland drill work, leading to on water drill work, leading to practice in turns, etc. will produce some progress.

[UWSkier]

Might not work that much to help with training on proper position, but it sure feels gooooood to stretch tight shoulders and upper back.

[teammalibu]

I built a really cool one but it’s way too complicated and I would rather ski!

[ShererSkier]

I’d rather do drills that isolate certain postures of slalom behind the boat. Like the pull out and swing drill, that way you have all the other effects of the boat going that provide the most realistic feel of how the position will feel and will build better muscle memory. From the stretching aspect of it, there are better stretches to get way more flexible to make it easier to get into the proper stacked position. My 2 cents