Lawsuit against Liquid Force and competition style vests

[ScarletArrow]

Will this have an impact on manufacturers ability or willingness to make competition style vests?

 

Link 1

 

Link 2

[LoopSki]

it's too bad a young man had to lose his life, but you can't fix stupid.

 

[ScottScott]

@loopski I"m not sure where the "stupid" part comes in, especially regarding 2 families that lost a child.

 

I can't say this is the case in either of these cases, but I'm sure there are a lot of casual boaters that aren't aware of the existence of non coast guard approved vests intended specifically for skiing.

[LoopSki]

people need to have some common sense and accountability if they are going to participate any type of activity that has inherent dangers.

[markn]

The loss of life is unfortunate and sad. That said, every life vest that is not U.S. Coast Guard approved states so specifically printed on the vest. I must own or 7 of them, My wife will not let any skier friend use any of them for that very reason nor will she ski in a non-U.S. Coast Guard approved vest. Me? I will take my Eagle, non-approved vest and accept the responsibility.

[LoopSki]

is this not enough? its pretty clear to me. not only is it written on the garment,

 

 

 

 

they are obviously thinner. I'm no genius, got a couple years of community college under my belt. I can figure it out. My kids all wear type III and i take the risk with my non approved. I never use it on public lakes though. Only at home on our ski lake.

 

Plus , last time I checked , tubing was not a tournament event . Not yet at least!

 

 

 

[Lobonator]

Just like how ski manufacturers have warning/liability releases printed on the graphics on skis, the disclaimer that is on required every comp vest, releases liquid force from having legal issue.

 

Only thing I could see as an issue is the merchandising at the retail store, where the retailer could potentially get dinged.

[ToddL]

The pervasiveness of these warnings has desensitized the general public to them.

 

Heck, I've never actually fully read the one on the vests until just now. What's next? Will the buyer have to show their USAWS membership card before buying one? Hey! Membership problem solved!

You're welcome, @JeffSurdej ! LOL. JK

[gregy]

If you read the claim. The kid was on a tube and got knocked unconscious when he was thrown off. He sank and was not found until the next day. Not sure I've every had vest that didn't float me and I'm pretty lean. Last two vest were Stokes and Camaro and they both have good flotation. The worst I've had an old eagle vest. I keep it around because it perfect with a wetsuit.

 

Says it was a Liquid force. Has anyone had a vest that would allow them to sink to the bottom.

[ToddL]

I have often wondered why there isn't something just below USCGA that competitive skiers would embrace. I'd buy something with just a little more flotation in the upper chest to help improve the probability of a face up floating position. I don't think that would get in the way of proper slalom movements and posture. Categorize them as a CompPlus vest. No claims of anything, but still added flotation where it counts.

 

So many vests already have built in 6-pack construction, why not pecks, too. LOL.

[Drago]

The 1st claim was dismissed. I got impatient and didn't finish reading the second one, but i think the non-CG approved vest is not under threat.

[BraceMaker]

If you open the lawsuit the claim is that the vest was purchased by the friend's father, who allegedly purchased a more expensive product thinking it was better.

 

The suit was mostly aimed at the retailer claiming that positioning of the items together lead them to believe in its safety.

 

That's where it gets hard to know, is that an honest mistake of an uninformed shopper? Did the kid like watersports and pick that vest for vanity?

 

 

We can all agree the lawsuit should be against tubers.

 

 

 

[oldjeep]

I'd venture to guess that at least 50% of the people that buy those things have no idea that they are not USCG and pretty much unsafe as an actual life saving device. They don't float decently and they are too easy to peel off in a crash. The 2 big local ski shops carry mostly "Comp" vests for both wakeboarding, surfing and skiing and their stock of normal USCG jackets is dismal.

[LeonL]

I'm not gonna read the legalese, but to claim that any comp vest would fail to float a person seems a bit absurd. As for floating a person in a face up position, probably not. I'm just not buying the claim that anyone could totally sink while wearing a comp style vest.

[oldjeep]

@LeonL - let me introduce you to my father inlaw some time. 130lbs (maybe) without a bit of fat. Those silly comp vests don't make him float. Now your average 220lb chubby guy, sure - because they are providing a lot of their own flotation. Pretty easy for me to believe that a fit kid could sink in one.

[skierjp]

And everyone complains about the high cost of equipment and boats. Gee, go figure!!!

[Than_Bogan]

@ToddL has a really important (if obvious :smile:) point regarding what I sometimes call Over Warning Syndrome. As a result, I almost completely ignore warnings unless it's something that I am really unfamiliar with. But even then it's frustrating. A couple years back, I bought my first chainsaw and I had rather little experience using one, so I actually sat and read through the booklet. There was some very useful information buried in there, but it was agonizing reading through all the direly-worded liability-protection verbiage to get to the actual information!

 

I truly think we're making the world more dangerous with O.W.S.. When the world is plastered in warnings, you can't see the ones that you actually need to pay attention to.

[A_B]

It looks like Link 1 was the dismissal of charges from Link 2.

 

The suit says not properly marked or they were confusing. I guess the guy can sing but not read.

 

We always had the tubers wear USCG approved vests on the tubes. Crazy stuff happens and they all want to go higher and faster. I remember about 40-years ago cracking the whip on a tube and I shredded one of those old white vinyl jackets. We laughed when we read the label that said impact resistant to 50 mph.

 

Many in America always want to blame someone else for their mistakes. This is just one of those.

[disland]

In the Navy we used the Navy issue kapok life jacket. This is the only type that will save your life if you are knocked unconscious, period.

 

 

 

[Than_Bogan]

@disland. Very true. But just out of curiosity, is that guy a super-hero of some sort? He seems to be able to hover in mid air?

[dvskier]

@Than_Bogan He's straddling the mooring lines.

[dave2ball]

This is a very sad case. There are many things that are not mentioned. Such as was the person face down? If he was face down in the water unconscious it is very unlikely a CGA vest would of made a difference. Did the vest fit him correctly? May people who wear this type of vest don’t understand that they will loosen up in the water. Was the vest on him when the body was found?

This is a tragic accident. I would say can’t fix stupid really doesn’t apply in this case.

[ScarletArrow]

It's my understanding the tube flipped over with the rider on it.

 

The rider was knocked unconscious, sank and drowned.

 

My assumption is that the vest actually came off.

 

The basis for my assumption is my own experience, in a major crash almost two years ago my vest came almost completely unzipped as I laid face-down unconscious in the water.

 

Are the new style competition vests safe enough?

 

As skiers, we generally don't like tubers because they mess up the water, but really most are just reckless and have no idea the danger that is posed when whipping someone (usually a child) at a high rate of speed.

 

Water skiing has inherent risk to it, but it's generally done in a controlled environment.

 

The contradiction of tubing is that while it's the easiest, it's likely to be the most dangerous.

 

Solution - take your kids kneeboarding.

 

You can still buy your 200k boat, but it's much safer.

[Chef23]

@ToddL Eagle makes a vest with more flotation and good mobility. We have a couple of them around the house that my kids out grew.

 

It is a tragedy but if the kid was knocked unconscious it is on the driver. I am amazed at how fast I see people whipping tubes around.

[lpskier]

I used to wear a pull-over best until it came up over my head and arms in a high impact fall. When I needed it most it was there the least. Last time I wore that one.