The rise and fall of water skiing

[ALPJr]

@MattP that looks really cool. Are there cable parks like that in the USA?

[Jetsetr]

@DW Have to disagree on the comparison with short track racing and MX.

 

A Modified or Sprint car (I owned/drove sprints) doesn’t cost anywhere near what skiing does. I’m not talking WoO level but a “hobby” racer can get into sprints for less than 25K. A good trailer 5K or less. I ran a weekly local program with a tow of 50 miles total, April-October.

 

When I ran sprints every year I broke even on expenses (I GOT PAID) unlike waterskiing you only get paid if you’re a pro (and ya gotta win or place).

 

Dollars to play DOES factor into participation, and skiing is expensive to compete. Fun skiing different story. Outboard and some Dick Pope’s and away ya go.

 

I think if you look at the income metric of competition skiers vs hobby racers you will see there is a VERY wide margin.

JMHOYOMV

[braindamage]

Here’s an idea. Create a freestyle class of skiing where the course changes every Tournament, there are jumps between the buoys where tricks can be done, have a section where there is rough water, and add a water half pipe where big time trick air jumps can be done.

 

I think the narrow focus of chasing buoys at a high level as the only goal limits the exposure and is difficult to compete against the easy of surf or the big air of wakeboarding.

[Horton]

@braindamage

 

[yardsale]

Skiing died for the same reason stand up jet skis did. They're hard things to do. They take strength, effort, and athleticism. Most people aren't like that.

 

 

[Jetsetr]

@yardsale spot on. Raced Stand-Ups in the early 90’s. Was a top 5 rated amateur rider in APBA. I raced my Mod 550 against 750’s. I did well because of all the training: gym time, running, lifting and riding the boat in Lake Michigan at least 4-5 times per week.

 

The sit downs (i.e. wave couches) totally decimated the stand up classes. All you need was big $$ for a big motor.

 

Still have my Mod 550 and a upgraded 440...going to drag the 550 out this summer for cross training.

[chrislandy]

I had an epiphany over the weekend whilst talking to another parent at Rugby, there is a lot of talk about the cost of "normal" sport too.

 

Costs have gone up for ANY and EVERY sport / enthusiasm.

 

Go back in time 30-40 years and people had multiple activities they took part in, some where they were top or close to in each activity, some just took part in multiples because they were fun.

 

Take hillclimb racing in the UK, in the grassroots categories you used to be able to turn up in your daily runaround rear drive ford escort, compete, then drive it home and to work the next day. Nowadays, even for entry level competition you need a car just for hillclimbing with roll cage, weight reduction, harnesses, prepped engine, competition suspension, data logging, specific tyres etc etc and the list goes on

 

Come back to the present, for the average joe, to be any good at anything whether it's grass roots hillclimbing, cycling, waterskiing, rugby, photography etc etc you need total an unvarying focus on that ONE activity with most, if not all the "play" money going on that ONE thing, hence the decline in participation in a lot of sports / activities and the growth of others.

 

To grow our sport again, we need to change the minds of the various governments (especially here in the UK) with regard to skiing on public water etc, governing bodies being more flexible and encouraging. Here in the UK the BWSW have a fantastic programme where you can ski at any affiliate ski club at an initially highly discounted rate to to try it out before joining a club, but it's not advertised very well outside of people in the know.

 

We need a positive outlook on the sport and actively encourage knowledge, participation and advertisement of the benefits of skiing, whether its traditional slalom, trick and jump or wakeboarding etc... The important thing is to take it outside of the current pool and bring it to the people, electric boats for the green thing, system 2 type mobile cables for in town / city comps on rivers, advertise, advertise and advertise.

 

Get it in front of people and participation will increase, sponsors and TV will come back and we can get back on the upward curve again

[ForrestGump]

For me, it's not at all about the $. I make plenty of money to competitively ski when and where I want. It's about the fact that USA Waterski and AWSA have done nothing to entice me to come back to competitive waterskiing. I'm not even talking about enticing me to participate as I once did as a driver, judge, and scorer. Waterskiing went stagnant with no progression(other than mfr technical) or plan to progress.

[Swerve200]

Water skiing is/was a boomer sport. The youngest boomer is now 55. The only possible way that water skiing comes back in a big way is if the millennial generation takes it up in droves - don't see this happening. Just enjoy it if you still participate - recreation or tournaments - doesn't really matter - do it for your personal enjoyment.

 

Talking about how to bring the sport back is as productive as trying to get it into the Olympics.

[ski6jones]

Has there ever been a study of the personality types involved in skiing?

 

It would be interesting to see how that breaks down. Seems like some people ski and are immediately bitten by the bug. Very quickly they'll start making sacrifices to ski more often. Freeing up time, buying equipment, etc. They could end up either rec or tourn skiing but they are going to find a way.

 

Others ski and are more or less indifferent. They have fun, maybe come back if invited, but can essentially take it or leave it. We will never build the sport with these people.

 

What personality type gravitates toward skiing, and would it be possible to target those people with advertising, etc? We need to identify those people and get THEM on the water. The sport will do the rest.

 

Using myself as an example I'll ski until I'm no longer able. Quitting is not an option. Those are the people we need to find.

[jayski]

@ski6jones the awesome type of people ski and are OCD about it...ask me...I'm a living expert!! :D

[thager]

@ski6jones Problem is all those people are our age!

[ski6jones]

Someone in need of a college thesis could do this. Avid skiers are addicts in the truest sense of the word. If skiing killed you like drugs or alcohol we'd all be dead already.. There must be some common character trait that predisposes people to favor activities like skiing. Study everyone regularly on this board versus some control group and see what it looks like.

 

It would be interesting if nothing else.

 

[VONMAN]

@ski6jones 100% correct, skiers are addicts. How else does it make sense that we enjoy this sadomasochistic sport of water skiing. We fall and crash at high speed, take hits from the boat that can break ropes and bend handles for what? The high you get when do turn around that ball that no one thought you could make. So we cheer and fist pump only to pay for it latter at night when the pain reminds us that we are only human and the boat doesn't care. We play over in our mind the great day we had with our ski Bud's on the lake. We also can't wait to do it all over again. Hopping that tomorrow that you feel pain free to do it all over again, but get to the next ball that alluded you today.

Barefooting is the same, been there, done that. Moved on. My advice to anyone that thinks they want to learn. I tell them "I'll run the boat up to 30mph and you jump out, if you are still jonesing to learn OK"

Hi I'm Ernie, water ski addict since 1981

[smilinjim]

This will help grow the sport...

 

AWSA Regular Driver Rating Downgraded Effective 1/1/2020

 

I have been an awsa/usaws member since 1985,

I have records of driving since 2003. (around 127 events)

I have been chief driver about 1/3 of those events

I have also organized and participated as an instructor in drivers clinics.

 

After going through the long process of obtaining a senior driver rating the reward for

not being able to participate as a driver enough over the past 3 years is to be down graded. First back to regular now to assistant.

(The only missing requirement this last year was 6 events as a driver. I only had 5 and that is because out of region I wasn't "in the club" and didn't get credit)

 

The Ski club that I host at my ski site has always required participants to be USAWS members. The goal was to get them lots of quality water time and maybe they would show up at an event since they were already a member. Only about 1/5th of the skiers ended up interested in tournaments. Needless to say the experiment is over and the membership requirement will no longer be needed at out site.

[MattP]

That's unfortunate @smilinjim .... Did you not get credit when you drove or were you not asked to drive?

[unksskis]

We have lost a lot of good drivers recently, and even more judges. Work is getting harder, and the supply of resources is getting smaller.

[smilinjim]

@MattP I offered to drive but apparently some events don't give you credit just for being available. In region if I am at an event I can get credit for being available. I heard that offering to assist if needed this is now a standard practice although it may not be widely known.

[The_MS]

Same issue at our lake. We would need to host multiple events in order to get any home owners to participate. Most are family’s that don’t like to leave on the weekends. The Minnesota event calendar is basically full, so getting skiers and promo boats to SE Minn is tough. Due to injuries and other issues I have lost my driver and sr judge ratings.

[JeffSurdej]

@smilinjim hate to hear and see this. Happens all to often to too many. I would highly recommend you apply for a hardship ASAP, seems your situation would warrant it and you can be reinstated, I also believe that as soon as you fill that one missing requirement you go right back to being a regular and you do not have to start over.

 

I always battle in my head with these requirements, on one hand they are good to make sure our officials are up to par and our skiers are receiving the best, on the other hand sometimes fulfilling the requirements doesn't guarantee that. You can have someone knock out their 6 requirements in 2 years never pulling anyone into short line, then you have others that are chief driving events all the time but dont have time to do 6.

 

Personally I have had to give up my scorers rating and going after a drivers regular because it so hard to be a 3 event skiers and go after multiple 3 event officials ratings, especially in tricks where you only have 10 trickers and you are one of them and you are pinning for a few others, there is now way you are going to get calling time and driving time and scoring trick time as well.

 

Anyways new starting in 2020 we have shifted all officials renewals to 4 year cycles in an effort to give officials more time to maintain their requirements, this way if you have a year or 2 that you are away from the sport you have a few more years to knock out your credits. I hope this will help retention down the road

[Horton]

Potentially this should be a new thread but whatever

 

This really sucks but is not black and white. The requirements for being an official at any level are published. If you (we) think those requirements are right or wrong that is yet another conversation. Should we give a grace period for officials that have held a level for some number of years? Maybe. Should we have some sort of Fast Track to regain a lost level? Maybe? I thought there were hardship allowances for this sort of thing but IDK. I am sure we need structure and rules and then we must live by them.

 

On one hand I want to say this is all stupid. If you have been a high level official for so many years the requirements to keep that level should have more flexibility. On the other hand, I know more than one official who holds that a Sr rank because of years invested and are seriously incompetent.

 

I have heard high level conversations about making the rank of Sr Driver about skill and not about years invested AND demoting all but the very elite. This would mean far less Sr drivers but a higher quality pool of Sr drivers. That sounds great until you insult / demote all the hard working drivers who have done a solid job for years. As a skier I want only the best when I ski. For the sport as a whole we need to not disrespect those who feel they have achieved something with their officials rank.

 

It is easy to outline some of the problems but the solutions are not obvious.

 

[elr]

@JeffSurdej - why can't we retroactively go to a four year cycle for all officials?

[smilinjim]

@JeffSurdej I initially looked into the hardship...

 

Excusable conditions:

• Medical problems ‐ major injury or illness, surgery, pregnancy

• Military duty

• Temporary job assignments lasting two months or more over which you have no control

 

Inexcusable conditions:

• Non‐awareness of renewal requirements

• Personal error in record keeping

• Lack of tournament attendance due to other personal activities

• Absence due to school

• Failure to attend a drivers' clinic

 

Unfortunately my excuse falls in the Inexcusable conditions... multiple family weddings 2 summers in a row and your own site to manage and prepare for events don't quality as excuses for not participating enough.

 

At this point it is too much effort for me to bother with.

 

We may come up short on rated drivers this summer for hosting an ELR event.

I certainly won't put a hack driver in the seat for a record just because the have a rating. Not fair to the skier that is paying the extra for that level of event.

[JeffSurdej]

@smilinjim maybe the route is not a hardship but rather a missing credit that you deserve based on being available to drive but no seat time was available, perhaps that CD owes you credit which you have until May top clean up any missing credits

[smilinjim]

@JeffSurdej Just sent a note to the CD for a couple events I was at in FL. We will see how that avenue works.

 

[ALPJr]

In many amateur and scholastic sports officials are fined $$ if they do not fulfill mandatory requirements. In basketball we must complete ratings on other officials, attend meetings, complete trainings, pay annual dues, etc.

[BraceMaker]

@ALPJr but those are typically paid officials - I don't know why people do it but I have co workers who officiate high school Basketball and they do get paid per game + a meal.

[smilinjim]

@JeffSurdej is there an official amendment to the rules for getting credit for being available to drive? The 2012 drivers manual says SOL if you didn't get in the seat unless you were the Chief.

[JeffSurdej]

@smilinjim let me find out, I have a wierd feeling that this was passed for Judges but not drivers and scorers but I could be wrong, Ill find out. I think it was passed that drivers could get credit for driving practice before tourney in case there was not enough tourney seat time

[ALPJr]

@JeffSurdej ever considered paying officials a modest fee per event? Higher level events higher fee. Offset the organization’s cost with a small increase in skier fees?

[unksskis]

From what I've overheard, those requesting hardships were not granted. These are fantastic drivers, who no longer drive. Thanks to all that drive, but there are plenty that simply have the rating, and shouldn't necessarily be driving all abilities, they're just the only rated ones anymore, with better drivers sitting on the shore or at home.

[ALPJr]

@BraceMaker I do it for the same reasons as waterski officials- love the sport, being in the game, on the court. Then there’s the ancillary benefits, meeting like minded people, working hard and trying to get better, staying fit and having fun. Trust me, it’s not something to do if the focus is on making money.

[RAWSki]

It is sad to have heard a over several years at events where we attended or provided a boat. That there are rated drivers that no one wants to put in a boat AND there are quality drivers on shore ----that for one reason or another cannot drive. It's tough putting on a tournament and I appreciate everyone that works them and provides their personal time to make them happen. Is it spring yet!?

[Horton]

I think the most recent Distance From Center dovetails with my original post.

https://distancefromcenter.com/index.php/2020/41-distance-from-center-episode-35-the-olympic-dream

[disland]

Suggest we lighten up the hardship guidlines and give ability for EVP's to grant waivers. Everyone knows who the guys are who can drive and who the guys are who do the minimum to keep their ratings but dont drive enough practice

[ntx]

The worst cases are in jump. I know too many jump drivers who want to pull high end jumpers in tournaments but do not pull any practice. They keep the sr jump driver rating by pulling a few tournament jumpers. They are the same drivers that say you can't pull tournament slalom unless you drive practice into -39. I call BS and whatever. Why are high level jumpers asked to deal with the risk of putting up big scores behind drivers with no seat time but have a rating.

[coach3]

fast track back seems like a simple solution.

[Jody_Seal]

Showcase and Exposure for 3 event waterskiing can still be seen in different parts of the world. In the next 6 days nearly a million people will have the opportunity to spectate the worlds best in the sport.

Moomba continues to be successful in its 60 years.

3 event skiing is alive!

 

 

[One_Ski]

Somebody must have decided that trick skiing was waaaaay too exciting with all those jumps and spins, so they had to tone it down. They succeeded. The addition of toe passes made a marginally entertaining sport no longer marginal. Personally, I'd prefer they bolt the handle to the trick ski, and just drag it through the course.

[ALPJr]

It sure as hell hasn’t fallen in Melbourne

[MISkier]

We are missing an opportunity. ESPN looking for programming:

 

https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-releases/2020/03/when-you-needed-it-most-espn8-the-ocho-returns-on-espn2-sunday-march-22/

 

I have to believe we could bring the same or more value/interest than putt-putt golf and axe throwing.

 

Somebody call ESPN and send them this year's Moomba webcast.

[Kimbymon]

@MISkier I was going to suggest that someone tell ESPN to rebroadcast "Hot Summer Nightz" .

[unksskis]

Best hope is they rebroadcast Freddy's record jump, as part of wakeboarding X-games reruns

[mtnskiskate]

Our country has changed due to social media and the pressure to have the coolest stuff even if it is beyond your economic reach. Kids don't want junky boats that are falling apart. Social media and advertising don't show anything other than $100k wakeboats. My first boat was a tri hull Orlando Clipper with a 135 hp Johnson. We drilled a hole in the transom and mounted a 1" piece of galvanized rigid for a pylon. We watched ESPN Hot Summer Nights every week. We made a homemade slalom course with 2 liter coke bottles (painted orange) and concrete blocks. We had NO money but we improvised. This would never be allowed today on a public lake nor would anyone attempt it for fear of embarrassment from their peers. Also, we knew that it was going to be a long road to shortline in those days but we had the time, the focus and the drive. We all watched as wakeboarding took over because it was EASY. Now we have wakesurfers with 12 people in the boat, we can have you up and going in 5 minutes and even if you can't let go of the rope, you still get your trophy and post it on social media ( I am at 56 still an avid East Coast surfer and the line up out there is getting older because like 3 event, surfing is HARD and takes a long time to master). Maybe the lack of attention span and the fear of sucking at something for a long time has pushed our sport into the shadows. Add in the public lake problem, the cost of a decent used boat ($20k), a partner who is willing to put in long hours between driving and skiing and you have a very limited amount of young people to recruit. Look around at the young people on the starting dock. They are all your kids and grandkids and our skiing population is pretty minor. We had trouble getting people to watch in the 80s and there was a whole lot less to compete with then. Someone wrote that it's a country club sport and they hit it right on the head. A basketball, a pair of sneakers and a hoop if you're on the lower end of the spectrum. Fellas, don't look for a big resurgence, just be happy and go ski.

[Horton]

i think with all the arguments about SafeSport mandates my original post at the beginning of this thread is again relevant.

[thager]

Meh...

[ski6jones]

Relevant. The current cultural backlash can be added to that list, brought to us by USAWS.

[RichardDoane]

the SS mandate, background checks, and now additional burdens being loaded onto LOC’s are definitely pushing our sport down the path of destruction

[A_B]

When corporations want to strengthen, they focus on their core buisnesses. They need a clear vision that is communicated to the lowest level employee. "We want to grow" is not specific enough. People need to understand why "we can't stay here and need to go there", but "there" needs to be clearly defined with a path that is gerenally developed by a team, and not one person.

 

What is USAWSA's core business? What are distractions to the core business? What demographic do we want to grow? How do we reach that demographic?

 

A successful corporation does not get distracted by flashy stuff. What is flashy stuff? IMO chasing the Olympics and wakeboarding are flashy stuff. I bet 90% of waterskiers have no idea what most of the wakeboard manuevers were called nor do they care. Wakeboarders and surfers are viewed as a nuisance, like kneeboarders were back in the day on rivers. So let's put oil and water together in an organization...

 

What benefits do non-tournament skiers from being a member? There are more of them than tournament skiers.

 

What benefits do tournament skiers get from membership, aside from being allowed to ski in tournaments?

 

I assume private lakes will remain a core resource needed. Should there be a lake owner membership package including benefits that clearly address one of the concerns they have? Liability is likely at the top of the list. I am not talking about logging every pass in a book kind of stuff, that I refuse to do, but what can be provided on a pool basis to help open their lakes for skiing on a day to day basis?

 

The Safe Sport stuff has been thrashed enough elsewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

[swbca]

Wouldn't it be great if we could sell this fact to the Wake-Boat Buying households >>> Water Skiing Slalom is the single best "lifetime" activity you can do behind a boat. Like Golf and Alpine Skiing you can maintain 70% of your performance from age 17 to 75. BOS probably wouldn't exist if this wasn't true.

 

The good M1to M9 Trick Skiers go from 8000pts to 2000pts if they still ski. The physiological changes with age affect tricks much more than slalom. The recreational kids behind their $130k wake-boats may have no lifetime future in wake sports. (not counting the environmental pressures they leave in their wake)

 

As families age, they well never outgrow the Ski Boat. There are many recreation slalom skiers on my lake that are over 50 with ski boats boats, not wake boats. There is a group of 60+ skiers that take one of their boats to a nearby man made lake most weekends to work on the their slalom course skills.

 

Competitive Skier visibility in the community is important to keep the sport alive. It started with our Ski Nautique and 2 nationally ranked skiers on our lake of 100 households. That contributed to a ski-boat fad of 30+ boats and brought more people of all ages into slalom skiing.

 

For all the money going to Wake-Boats, Ski-Boats are a better long term investment in family water sports.