2021 is my last year of USAWS

[The_MS]

But what is the problem and or issue that USAWS is trying to combat? Society’s problems or waterskiing problems

[MDB1056]

Sorry all but IMO this thread has gone so far off the rails it's ridiculous.

 

1. The SS training is a requirement for insurance coverage. Period. USAWS doesn't care if anyone likes it or not, or walks because they don't like it. It's a business requirement they need to have in order to do what they do. So they've added it. Check the box. Done.

 

2. To the main issue of why this is even necessary, which is people behaving badly, that's a 100% people issue, and a completely separate discussion.

 

Neither of these are skiing related.

 

Is this over simplification.............No.

[RazorRoss3]

I would argue that sexual abuse and predatory behavior may be an area of overlap between the two. Society has existed longer than waterskiing so I guess it started as a societal issue but it has clearly infiltrated our sport as well.

[klindy]

@jayski Good questions. First, understand that the SS mandate and the affiliation is with USA-WSWS and not with AWSA directly. That said, even if AWSA stepped out alone, there would be a mandate or strong "motivation" to have a program in place which does the same (or effectively the same) thing that SS does - so SafeSport would be a leading candidate for a solution. Could it be done without a program? Perhaps, but insurance would be either difficult to obtain or expensive which tends to close the loop back to where your question started. For several years there SS training was required for people (officials, coaches, others) who had potential contact with minor members. USA-WSWS made the decision to expand that to "all members" following the lead of some other National Sport Organizations and, anticipating that requirement at some point anyway. It this another hurdle which makes participating more difficult? sure, but the question is whether it's potentially worthwhile. I can't tell you how much lower our insurance premiums are because of this decision, I have no idea.

 

As for your first question, would it matter if any member had a better solution? The resounding answer to that would be YES! It would matter. But so far all I've seen are rocks being thrown at what's in place without any alternative presented. Including inappropriate "bend over" cartoons suggesting this is all some conspiracy or similar.

 

So, the question is real....kids aren't brought up the same as they were years ago. Clearly other sports have had REAL issues which were left unchecked for decades due to ignorance or lack of training or coverups. Either way, it involved 10's of thousands of REAL members of other organizations - I haven't heard one person deny any of the stuff that happened in the boy scouts or gymnastics or other organizations. It would be foolish to think we can operate without insurance coverage and equally foolish to simply think this stuff can't effect us. So what other option makes any sense?

[wawaskr]

Maybe we could get ex-govenor cuomo to throw in some insight on the societal issue? ;)

[mfjaegersr]

Until such time you're able to remove the 'people' - particularly those who behave badly - element from skiing, this (need for SS training) 'issue' and waterskiing will continue to be related, despite those of you that don't want them to be.

 

So many posts in this thread are just cringe-worthy IMO; too many folks simply can't see past the mirror on *this* - and likely so many other 'IT's NOT ABOUT (JUST) YOU!' - issues. As if YOUR parents hard coded you with 'there's no 'I' in team, so just focus on the ME part!'.

 

SMFH....

[BS74]

For many of us it's not the safe sport issue alone it's a culmination of things that awsa has done over the last 25 years .I gave up my membership after 2008. Looking back over the last 13 years of awsa only reaffirms that I made the right choice.

[jayski]

@klindy thank you for being upfront and transparent with your answer, a lot of other NSO's are NOT like that, or even engaging in this or any manner with members.

 

There is no simple answers to resolve this type of issue, but I think the membership is torn with the overabundance of rules and regulations and it's honestly draining to those of us who do more than just compete. Just competing and being a member is easy, this mandate is nothing much but...Putting on a tournament, running a site/club, officiating, and competing is a large endeavour, do it multiple times a year and some things like this just cause some to have their cup runneth over...there is a resounding call from members who work their butt off for the sport for ease and simplicity and at every turn it seems more rules and restrictions come forth.

 

I think the time has come to step back as an organization and have a change of focus, a change of outlook, and a change of delivery to the membership. I would expand but this is probably not the place to take up space with that.

[dave2ball]

I have worked the streets for over 25 years, and to think taking this course will stop predatory actions. Well WRONG. These classes show the predators what there potential victims know forcing a different path. Parents seem to use ski schools as babysitters during the summer. Possibly freeing up the parent from any responsibility or inactions. It is the parents responsibility to show there son/daughter what is right and wrong. It is not the responsibility of the LOC or any of the tournament skiers, judges so forth to police a problem that is not there.

 

[skidawg]

To require everyone who’s a member to take safe sport training is ridiculous, to require those who desire to coach and train children and under 18 teens, good idea. Why should joe blow ( 55 year old skier watch this just to be allowed to participate). This sport is shrinking yearly and USA ski just keeps making it more appealing to not show up every year with more rules and regs. Safe sport has its place but not in this manner

[klindy]

@dave2ball let’s say I agree with you. How do you propose to compel “the parents” to take that responsibility? How do you change the lack of guidance that you referred too? Again what I’ve heard over and over in this thread is “it ain’t my problem, don’t force me to do anything I don’t want to do or disagree with”. So how do you propose to change the behaviors of those parents that you feel are not doing what’s necessary to avoid this issue? If your idea is to ignore it until someone else solves it, I think there are plenty of highly publicized examples of how that won’t work.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@klindy I think most are getting lost in the weeds with all the bitching and moaning. The real issue, as I see it, has little to do with if Safesport good, bad or indifferent, but with the tremendous frustration of JUST ONE MORE MANDATE that the membership had ZERO input on. The perception from the trenches is “Safesport is now required. Your king has spoken, thou shall comply.” Obviously a piss poor way to run an organization, especially one so dependent on dedicated volunteers.

 

So a few things to consider:

 

1. Most understand the liability issue as real, whether we like it or not. So USAWS/AWSA/USOC has a liability issue. Did ANYONE sit down and consider “ok we can address this issue with Options A, B, C, D or E”? Anyone? Bueller? Nope, Safesport to the rescue! We’re done!

2. Assuming Safesport is the best option – a big if – Did USAWS/AWSA communicate to the membership, ok we have a liability issue, here is what we are doing about it?

3. If I recall correctly the “law” driving all this, there was nothing about 100% compliance. So did ANYONE at USAWS/AWSA give any thought to requiring for select members (coaches, clinics with kids, etc) to take safesport vs 100% of the membership? It seems to me compliance could easily be met with less than 100%.

4. No one wants another Nasser or Smith scenario and many would like to see something that would be effective at preventing it. There is a very high degree of skepticism that Safesport training will have much if any effect. I don’t have an immediate solution, but this seems to be just one more kneejerk reaction to a real problem that won’t do squat to fix the underlying concern (oh except provide some small liability protection for the organization and its leadership)

 

My $0.02

 

[dave2ball]

@klindy you can’t compel or change the way somebody parents. It is not my job or anyone else’s job to raise somebody else’s kid. Nor is it my job or anyone else’s job to police a tournament for bad sexual behavior by predators. For once people need to stand up and accept responsibility for there actions and accept the responsibility for there minor kids actions as well.

Nobody is saying ignore the issue, what happens when you accuse someone and the turn out to be innocent or they are dating. Will I get sued? Or banned by SS or placed on probation? Where is the line drawn for getting into personal affairs? where are those answers?

You cannot change the mindset of theses type of people.

[ForrestGump]

#personalresponsibilityfixesalotofthingsinlife

[MrJones]

Again, I've typed several things and deleted them. I'm definitely getting better at this!

[MDB1056]

@Bruce_Butterfield - redundant. Already said over and over

[lpskier]

So we could do away with Safe Sport training if we adopted Sharia law, where the penalty for pedophilia is death by stoning. That just might do the trick but it could get messy…

[Horton]

@dave2ball I don't exactly follow all of your above post but your comments about ski schools I think are dead on. Not all schools but some.

[MillerTime38]

@klindy is there actually any proof that safe sport training reduces the risk of child predators running around within an organization? It’s weird this is a very popular thread but I haven’t seen any actual data, how effective is safe sport training? How many child predators were caught due to safe sport training? The reason why I left cooperate america is because I was tired of the CYA (cover your ass) but it seems that this is exactly what this requirement is for people that just want to compete in a waterski tournament, what’s next if I go play a round of golf I have to be safe sport trained because their might be an adolescent on the same golf course.

[Dirt]

We had a usaws member murder his spouse. Should we be required to take domestic violence classes and anti-murder non-violent crisis intervention classes?

[buechsr]

Posts from presumable adults, complaining that they’re asked to act like adults by complying with such burdensome requirements like watch an hour long video, is…ironic. The wakesurfers will give less pushback.

 

Actually, the people upon whom the irony should be evident, likely won’t get it. Instead, I’d suspect they will continue to bark about the good ol’ days when they wielded leadership in USAWS.

[ForrestGump]

Obviously, you're just a better human than I am.

[BS74]

@beuchsr

Let me suggest to you that they were the good all days and it went away when we let the other sports share in our revenues so a few could go to the Olympics. How about the hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in building a lake and for Hall of Fame and then walking away from it. I can give you a long list of AWSA screw ups but that's not what this thread is about. Since your profile is hidden I don't know how long you've been around, but I have since 1977. Could someone tell me what the financial status is of this organization?

[The_MS]

So there is a 3 round C event. Starts at 8am and done by 3-4 pm. I guess they think I won’t notice some perv grabbing some kid and taking them to his van for an hour unless I sit down for 90 minutes and Woke up. Just type your answers and hit enter and all is now good. (Where does that info go and who has access to it) What’s next, equity training? Will I have to sit through a session on why my whiteness is preventing black/brown people from waterskiing. It sounds far fetched but it won’t be long folks. Here come da fuzz

This is not my employer, in fact I pay money to belong. I pay to ski events, I pay Florida to ski events and I volunteer to help out. The board makes the rules and I decide if I want to join.

[rfa]

.

[The_MS]

I have just been handed another reason to quit. Florida just doubled the state federation fee from $10 to $20. They also moved the due dates to after nats. So out of state skiers that attended our May event now have to pony up again for our sep event.

 

[bigtex2011]

yawn....I must not be 'Woke' enough. because all the complaining is making me tired.

 

[Horton]

@The_MS OMG $10!

[bigtex2011]

@Horton I want MS to run 39 and I'm going to give him $10 in shiny pennies :smiley:

[bigtex2011]

fun fact.. did u know pennies aren't made of copper anymore. apparently they were made of copper in the 'good ole days'

[The_MS]

We’re not all rich California people.

They still make pennies?

[markn]

Another good book as a reference...."The High Cost of Good Intentions". I'm with @The_MS

[dave2ball]

.

[thager]

Apparently @dave2ball is having a period?

[The_MS]

I get it, it’s just 10 bucks more but the cost doubled.

We’re they loosing money and voted to double it?

Im not sure why I complain because up here in the far west panhandle, we totally benefit from the Florida ski Federation. How do I sign up grass roots guys now with all the fees and rules on Safesport? Pretty easy for them to stay at home and ski and not sign up for an event.

 

[Horton]

@The_MS I have been petitioning AWSA, USAWS and the Florida Fed to add any all and all new fees and requirements just to get you quit before you run 39 in a tournament.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Horton you are wasting your time. @The_MS will never run 39 in a tournament. - 2 years in Florida on a near perfect lake didn’t help.

- He will never stop drinking beer.

- He ain’t getting any younger

- He would rather bitch and moan than anything else.

[The_MS]

@Bruce_Butterfield

It’s only been a year.

It’s not the age, it’s the miles

[escmanaze]

Outsider's perspective here. It does seem like a bit much to ask every single person who wants to ski in a single tournament to take an hour long course and pay an additional fee to do so.

 

If you're already struggling to get people to show up to an event, adding in something like this certainly doesn't help. Yikes.

 

As a person who has often been on the fence about maybe going to a tournament and I just never have quite had enough gumption to go for it, putting this one more obstacle in the way seems to make it even less likely.

[klindy]

@escmanaze WHILE YOUR point is taken there is no additional fee whatsoever to taker he safe sport training. Free. No cost. Zippo. I

[Horton]

@Bruce_Butterfield

[The_MS]

The additional fee @escmanaze os talking about is fees like the Florida waterski fee. There is no reason they could not have set the deadline at 12/31/21 for this year and then go with the after nationals time frame next summer.

@klindy USAWS pays to have a safe sport program and that in the end is passed on to the members through the membership cost. Nothing is free

[DFWskier]

I've wondered what's next? Will boys/men division skiers be allowed to compete in girls/women's divisions?

[lpskier]

No one has raised the point that we have already paid the $10 fee for calendar 2021, and they are then charging us again for the half year (end of Nationals-12/31/2021) I already paid for. I’m going to send Kyle/Brenda a check for $10 for the half year 1/1-end of Nationals 2022 that I haven’t yet paid for. Then next year I’ll pay $20.

 

Can the Florida Federation prevent you from skiing if you don’t join? They aren’t the sanctioning body. What actual authority do they have?

[klindy]

@The_MS please show me where USA WsWs pays ANYTHING to use oe be a part of safesport. You guys keep making stuff up.

[The_MS]

@lpskier I was wondering the same thing. The majority of the skiers at our fall event are out of state skiers. It may like taxation without representation.

[JackQ]

@lpskier, I am with you. Florida Federation should be a separate thread, but I am more perturbed that they changed the “ski year” and the amount without notice. Major foul!

 

Should have been, we are changing to price for next year on 1 Jan, then the year will start in for 2023 after the 2022 Nationals. For the folks that ski one or two tournaments a year this is just another disincentive.. Poorly executed at best,

[RichardDoane]

@The_MS age plays a bigger factor in diminished return scenarios; remember when you used to get out of bed and nothing hurt ?

[The_MS]

@klindy What I do know is that someone is paying Safe Sport some how and some way. They don’t work for free. Last time I checked, they have a payroll and they are not volunteering to work for free. How did the relationship start and how do they get paid?

[coach3]

Well, I got through it. Lot's of clicking and saving and sending. It was long and repetitive also. Some good stuff, and some politically correct philosophy. Ehh, it's done, and move on.