2021 is my last year of USAWS

[Wish]

Seems to be 2 camps here.

 

1. The ...just do it ya big baby cause it’s a good thing and you have too.

 

2. And the ....stop mandating perfectly reasonable adults to do stuff unnecessarily for CYA purposes.

 

Pretty sure that both ends of this extremely wide spectrum sadly won’t get solved here...ever. But feel free to continue till it gets closed. I’d like to say it’s been educational but...meh. Entertaining perhaps.

 

[dthate]

Okay upfront, I have not been paying family membership for a couple years, so I am not in a position to comment, ha but so what.

 

What are y'all going to do when you are given a vaccine mandate to ski?

[gjohnson]

It really seems to be more of a post about hating the government. Safesport didn’t drop because of an over reaching government, but because people suck that had the power to stop the abuse. And the people who suck because they believe the sexual predators or the gaslighting that happens on the predators behalf. Victims matter, but nobody really cares beyond lip service.

[6balls]

Everyone here is qualified to discuss sexual predators and how to better ourselves to help stop abuse. Lots of complaining...any ideas?

[BraceMaker]

@dthate been vaccinated since December 29th so.... Probably just go ski?

[The_MS]

@6balls watch season 2 episode 5 of Mr Inbetween. That is my idea

[dthate]

@BraceMaker that is fantastic if it is your choice, but very different if it becomes another mandate.

[BraceMaker]

@dthate as opposed to the other vaccines I am mandated to be up to date on? None of which are my choice? This isn't something new.

 

Flu

MMR

TDAP

Hep B

Varicella

Meningitis

COVID19

 

 

[dthate]

Who mandates those vaccines?

[unksskis]

@dthate Most likely the employer of anyone in the healthcare industry, usually following State, and then National guidelines and regulations.

[dave2ball]

Vaccine mandates in Florida most likely will not happen. Being that the governor has sign an order stating you cannot ask for proof of vaccination. This is a subject for another thread.

[dthate]

@dave2ball I agree and it is completely unconstitutional, even tho some judges are ruling otherwise.

 

What if the USOC decides to protect us and compels the USAWS into a vaccine mandate for tournaments, clubs?

[RazorRoss3]

This thread is heated enough talking about existing regulations. The discussion of speculative vaccine mandates, their constitutionality, and the political undertone that goes alongside all of it is a thread to itself. It is also a thread that @horton would likely kill off since it would not be skiing related and would with certainty cross the “no politics” rule.

[dave2ball]

@dthate it won’t fly here in Florida can’t speak for other parts of the US. It is unconstitutional And many will apply for religious or medical exemptions. It may collapse the sport. Besides we are outdoors and not sitting on top of each other Who is going to police it?????

 

@RazorRoss3 i totally agree.

[ral]

Interesting to see how two drastically different and seemingly unrelated “mandates” are preceived as potentially having the power to collapse the sport…

[dave2ball]

@ral

If the membership does not like the new rules or mandates then they have every right to not to renew their membership.

And they should not be judged for their actions.

[Horton]

OKAY NEW RULE: no non-water ski politics or vaccine politics allowed.

[dthate]

So not being political, just looking at the actions of the governing bodies that affect our sport, and how all "mandates" are related, speculative or not, they seem to be popping up everywhere.

The USOC who has a governing position over USAWS, conspired with USAG, and FBI to hide and cover up the actions of Larry Nassar's sexual abuse of so many young women, when they had testimonial evidence, Mckayla Maroney, (I do believe the girls that were abused) he went on to abuse 70+ more girls / young women. So they come up with safesport "mandate" it on us and keep covering up. Oh look squirrel.

They did not protect the olympic gymnasts, we all need to pay attention and not let abuse happen.

[ScottScott]

@Horton Thats a NEW rule?

[Jody_Seal]

Yes the rabbit hole is deep on this one.

I don't think that this thread has gone off rails. I think it is the only discussion that really has any

Relevance to the future success of USAWS and how its interactions with member sport divisions as well as general membership are affected.

 

What I know and believe is government needs not be In this sport. The USOC is funded by the government ( not directly but of funds from government grant process). You take their money they make the rules. It is known that because of mass pullout of waterski industry, sponsorship moneys provided by the USOC offsets a sizable spendeture for USAWS that other wise came from the sports industry financial support.

 

Mandate!! Yes of course let's mandate a government ideology and indoctrination as outsourcing of personnel responsibility has become the norm in today's society.

 

"It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for their actions!"

Ronald Regan.

 

 

It will be interesting to see if the 30-40% membership walk. I really don't see that as an impact on usaws because there are enough very high income individuals that don't have a problem contributing big money to keep them afloat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The_MS]

It’s not a Vaccine. It’s a preventative shot. Do not compare

[JackQ]

@dthate, you need to do your homework. This question was settled by the Supreme court in 1905. Justice John Marshall Harlan Harlan, “upon the principle of self-defense, of paramount necessity, a community has the right to protect itself against an epidemic of disease which threatens the safety of its members.”

 

Sort of like having laws against drunk driving, If you drive drunk you are much more likely to kill your self, but you put me at risk as well

[dthate]

Hmmm no, laws created by a representative governing body to curtail possible dangerous actions by some, is not same as compelling an invasive injection a foreign substance into someones body. Judicial activism is similar to mandate, no representation.

 

I am not trying to provoke wrath, just thought, and that should be okay.

 

If our governing body hands down a "preventative shot" mandate what would happen?

 

I just checked USOPC are mandating "fully vaccinated" as of Nov. 1 2021.

"Effective Nov. 1, 2021, the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Committee will require all employees, athletes, contractors and others to be fully vaccinated against COVID-19"

A one hour class / video and $20 bucks or whatever is a bit different than an injection of?

 

And once again would there be any representation, for the skiing constituency?

[JackQ]

The decision in 1905 from the Supreme Court was in reference to the mandate for smallpox vaccination. Fortunately for us, the mandate and compliance of our forefathers eradicated the disease.

[The_MS]

No relevance to a 1 time vaccination. This is a flu shot

[markn]

Not so certain it was compliance to a vaccine mandate alone that made smallpox the only virus to be completely eradicated. It never mutated and killed (along with itself) most of the hosts.

[Mrs_MS]

@The_MS

Wonder when the people with 3 jabs will be pissed at me for only having 2?

[skidawg]

USAC doesn’t require every member to take safe sport training. Period! Anyone in a coaching position, doing clinics or working with minors has to under go a background check and safe sport video training. Junior cyclist who age out (turn 18) who will still train around minors have to watch the vid… basically… if you’re going to be coaching and training children or minors then you take the video if you’re going to ski participate etc. no video should be necessary this one vac fits all doesn’t really work in the real world

[ski6jones]

Get out of here with your reasonable solutions @skidawg. That kind of thinking has no place in this thread.

[bigtex2011]

yes, tell us more about cycling. seems like a super honest bunch. Hardly any bad press, cheating and general rule breaking has been done in the cycling world. well, at least they don't have to watch a video. good for them

[bigtex2011]

Im sure the cycling organization usa-international intergalactica org .net.com is too busy doping and blood letting to have time for a whole 1 hour video

[bigtex2011]

@Mrs_MS I guess it depends where they jab ya :)

[BraceMaker]

@The_MS vaccine vs preventative shot....

 

It is both. The meaning and method of vaccines has shifted over and over, smallpox vaccines were strains of cowpox another virus that worked, Koch had a serum for tuberculosis called tuberculin that was terribly unsafe but is the basis for the subdermal TB test we all get today.

 

Any preventative shot that primes the immune system to recognize an infection is a vaccine. Anyone saying otherwise is just flipping to old dictionaries and saying see this isnt a killed virus or a weakened virus so its not a vaccine is just being silly.

 

Quite a few of our vaccines are actually vaccines to a protein, sugar, or calsid this is similar to what a covid shot is - the vaccines for shingles whopping cough, hpv hep B etc. are this type of vaccine. We still call them vaccines because they are.

 

Oh but a phone is plugged into a wall and you crank it and someone on the other end plugs you into a switchboard what you have is a mobile communication device on a cellular network its not a phone.

[lpskier]

I just hope all you guys that are quiting are:

a) in my division; and

b) higher than me on the Ranking List.

It simply accelerates my “success through attrition” scheme.

[BS74]

@lpskier : That really the way you want to win? I ski very competitively with the top skiers in my division(Men 9) but no way an I going to a regionals with only 6 skiers in the southern region, and maybe 7 or 8 skiers the nationals. When they went to five year divisions along with all the other BS awsa has done in the last 25 years I paid my last membership in 2008.

[lpskier]

@BS74 I won M6 slalom and overall at regionals and lost a three way run off for fourth in M6 slalom at Nationals. I think I can hold my own.

[skidawg]

@bigtex2011 back away from tha banquets big boy…doping is a whole different subject…but usac has a good track record of dealing with N8 style shenanigans…they usually get it squashed before it gets started…the shotgun effort (one size fits all will only drive away membership who are already fed up with yearly snowballed rules and added tournament regulations

[bigtex2011]

@skidawg HAHA. It was almost an out of town chris episode last night.

[BS74]

@lpskier : Didn't criticize your skiing, point is that it's a lot more fun winning or placing when there are a lot of skiers. I've taken 1 thru 5 places in S. reg and MW, and several top ten finishes and a 6th in Nationals(men 4 with 65skiers), just saying I think it's a lot more satisfaction when there are lots of skiers. which is why I don't go now.

[BraceMaker]

@BS74 so take leadership figure out how to promote getting the training done and move on

[BS74]

@BraceMaker , I have no idea what you mean by your comments! I did move on, I dropped out awsa 14 years ago. Also, FYI, I was a member for almost 30 years.

[vtmecheng]

Anyone leaving the sport because of having to watch a video about child abuse prevention is not a loss.

[BS74]

@vtmecheng : You seem to think it's just one thing, a movie, it's a culmination of things over a long period of time. So, please don't point a finger at us as being "losers," take the time to go back and read 20 + pages of threads before you make stupid comments!

 

[The_MS]

@vtmecheng I am sure that you would be more then willing to contribute a bit extra to USAWS this year to off set any losses they get from reduced membership. Of course that’s assuming that you are a paying member. I’m sure your probably a rated official and attend many events throughout the summer.

[markn]

Holy crap...Another non-member (based on profile) @vtmecheng saying good riddance to several individuals who have contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to the sport for many years. People like @Jody_Seal , @The_MS and several more. Having worked tournaments for several years as a senior driver, senior judge and skiing knowing the time, energy and effort given to support the sport, it is people like @vtmecheng who just piss me off and who's opinion on the subject holds no validity.

[BraceMaker]

@markn you're targetting the wrong side. you arent getting the general membership on board most of the sports younger members including damned near every professional skier has come out and supported this. Many of the top female athletes have shared personal stories. The young ladies and young men who compete for the US national teams at worlds and junior worlds arent griping about this.

 

so @vtmecheng isnt a target. if anything a non member supporting this is a potential member to join (sport needs)

 

so go ahead tag any current member of this forum who skis OM or OW and ask them to weigh in. They already have but if you want clarity bug them.

 

As a sport I don't think anyone specifically wants to lose members. But I do think its hollow threats and the future of the sport supports generally the concept.

[markn]

Honestly, making the claim the pro skiers are in support of this mandate is kind of like asking Delta Airline employees (for fear of being fired) if they support the vaccine mandate. No data to prove it, but bet several conformed to keep their jobs. Further, the "young generation" is rather accustomed to conforming to loss of freedom in exchange for supposed security....kind of like a lot of the population.

[markn]

@Horton my apologies to your sir. I think I drifted dangerously close to breaking your rules. Won't happen again. Sorry.

[ToddL]

An all too common fallacy is to focus only on the final straw and not the pile upon the camel's back.

[LeonL]

I finally have to comment. Lots of threats to "just quit" back when DMV checks were mandated to keep your driver's rating. As it turned out, I don't know of anyone who actually gave up their rating. There are a lot of things I'd rather do with 90 minutes of my life than watch the subject video, but in order to ski the one or two tournaments a year that I've been doing for years, I'll suffer through.