2021 is my last year of USAWS

[The_MS]

The thread started with me being rightfully pissed about the woke training. Early on I asked “what’s Next” and look what has happened since.

Recurrent yearly SS for all

Background checks for judges

(Entering your Soc sec number and CC into the web site. Batcrap crazy)

The SS requirements for the LOC to put on an event

Who knows what is yet to come.

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@Horton early in this thread you made the comment "When and if it erodes my personal privacy or freedom in a real way I will change my tune."

 

Go read these requirements a few times and think about the real impact to you personally as an event host - both from additional work AND the risk if any little thing goes wrong https://teamusa.org/usa-water-ski/safe-sport/sanctioned-event-requirements

 

Are YOU willing to host a BOS cash prize, or any other tournament with these requirements and liability hanging over your head?

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Not to belabor the point, but if your LOC regularly hosts collegiate tournaments and its common for many of the teams to have freshman girls who are 17, just how far is the LOC now sticking its neck out to grow the sport?

[Jody_Seal]

@Bruce_Butterfield not to mention the underage partying that goes along with it!

[RAWSki]

I am just going to run tournaments with an age requirement of 21 and over. Get rid of all those meddlesome kids!

 

[The_MS]

That’s not a bad idea. Thanks to @Dirt I hate kids

[jayski]

@RAWSki @The_MS

 

The regulations apply to ALL AGE groups not just kids...we hyper focus on minors and it's portrayed to us in that manor but when @Mrs_MS grabs a handful of @The_MS or comments about him sexually during an event he could report her...or anyone that found it inappropriat ...sorry for using you two as an example...

 

Child sexual abuse

Sexual misconduct

Non-consensual sexual conduct

Sexual harassment

Intimate relationships involving an imbalance of power

[Stevie Boy]

Over the years, I have seen lake owners and various organisations organise and hold water skiing events, I have seen the enormous amount of work and expense of putting on such events, I have seen participants rip into the organizers, if something wasn,t quite right or the score wasn,t what they thought and I have often asked myself why put yourself through all that, you must be bonkers.

But I do know the answer, they are passionate about the sport, after reading this thread and looking at the direction things are going in.

How passionate are these extraordinary people, how far will they go before folding their hand.

[Drago]

@jayski Sorry but you’re just wrong.

More like a coach in a regional camp gathering all the kids into a dressing room, closing the door, and telling them all, “ok kids, we’re going to work on f-ing the handle!, let’s all practice that here!”

Btw, don’t hug my daughter or son when they pb, a fist bump or high 5 is fine.

[jayski]

@Drago on which part? Everything I have spoken off has come off the USA water ski site, safe sport site or IWSF site...feel free to disprove appropriately with more than "you're wrong", I have spent too much time reading all these Docs

 

Also IF you read all the docs the some of the wording is left in a definition "grey area"...and as a person who sat on a NGO board during the implementation of this type of program I can attest that your thought process and example of what is inappropriate is incorrect.

 

That may be what YOU feel is correct but the spectrum of what could be deemed inappropriate has no bounds. I am sure you are well aware of what level of actions and words some people find offensive and are willing to go to great efforts to ensure the world knows about their offence to it.

 

All this concern and new worry by members about appropriate vs. inappropriate and subsequent rules isn't for/about people such as yourself, one has to be EXTREMELY open to understand that in our hypersensitive society the possibility to get caught in a mess is much easier than one thinks.

 

Even your example of high fives and fist bumps could come across as inappropriate. We've all experienced the hyper positive enthusiastic adult who would probably dish out copious amounts of high fives and fist bumps to the kids, 99% of the parents would appreciate his/her enthusiasm but it only takes that one parent that get puts off by it and the poor bugger is now reported...and in our world it's guilty till innocent

[swbca]

@BigGerald3 Hey Doc, you will rarely know what the WTF is for. @Horton (BOS) should consider having both Negatives votes and Positive votes attributed. Maybe it would encourage an explanation of a disagreement with someone's post, rather than just throwing a cheap thumbs down. A better exchange of information from the experienced to the lesser experienced.

[Drago]

The mrsms ms example is wrong.

The kid walking by your car example is wrong.

Yes, someone can find that inappropriate and report it, but it will go nowhere.

I can sue you for anything, but that doesn’t mean I’ll win.

I know because I have dealt with a SafeSport sport for years and have to update every year and attend clinics where it is discussed. Fist bumps are specifically stated as ok.

 

[ski6jones]

@killer village comment above sent me reeling. I would have an expectation that someone would look after my children if I had a history with them and trusted them with my my life. Sorry, but there a precious few that qualify. Is the notion that tournaments should be able to fill this role? Not for my family, ever.

[ETskier]

Guys, can't we have a civil discussion without chastising each other? Please, speak your opinions without taking stabs at fellow skiers. As a society, if the 2% on the far left or the 2% on the far right get their way, we have totalitarianism. We in the 96% middle have far more in common than differences. Water skiing is a passion for all of us here. Can we fix the current association, or just start a new one?

[skidawg]

New one!

[thager]

Is winter over yet? Seems like forever!!!

[The_MS]

@thager 3 weeks until the solstice

[thager]

Damn!!!

[jayski]

Thanks @drago for clarifying my errs in examples if possible could you show me where it stipulates that those events and actions are allowed? I have read all the docs and cannot find anywhere stipulating what you have said. I have found definitive wording saying "celebratory actions are not allowed unless parental consent", and LOC's must provide designated changing areas...so once again you maybe versed in another sport but some of the things you mention are not stated anywhere, so just honestly looking for SOLID proof of what you are saying is allowable according to SafeSport or USA Waterski

 

Also thanks for reiterating and confirming that the scenarios can be in fact deemed inappropriate and can be reported to SafeSport, even if "nothing may come of it, it will go nowhere", but to the person that gets reported and will have to defend their actions and with the wording in USA waterski docs, the LOC also will have to answer questions in regards to incident...maybe this is "nothing" but to that innocent person that just got reported to SafeSport do we assume it's not a big deal to them?? No big deal to the LOC? are they going to keep track of LOC's with incidents even if they are all "nothing"??

[ForrestGump]

@buechsr I don't have a responsibility to anyone but myself and my family.

 

 

[ToddL]

I am still struggling with what my input to leadership will entail. I am a L1 Coach and trained driver, and I have been under both MVR and Background requirements for a long time. Thus, my personal impact is none. However, I am strongly opposed to our affiliation with USOC. I do not care how much revenue USAWS or AWSA have received as a result of that affiliation, it has bought more friction, difficulty, and problems to skiers, LOCs, and officials than that money is worth. USAWS needs to send an official letter of cancelation and sever all ties with USOC.

 

There are much better ways to ensure the safety of youth and vulnerable persons at our events. There are much better ways to determine appropriate roles for background checks. Nothing from USOC and subsequent controls seems to appropriately apply to the context and nature of our LOC-driven events. This has to stop now.

[scuppers]

Wow - there are way more libtards on BOS then one would imagine. Lets do less government and more parenting.

[ForrestGump]

We can disagree. No reason to use derogatory names, though.

 

[6balls]

@scuppers c'mon, dude. Name calling doesn't help. I'm a centrist so I get tired of the far right and far left calling me out when I'm neither polar opposite and see the value in a variety of viewpoints.

 

In this case as if I haven't effectively parented my kids or don't expect the same of others?

 

Taking shots at folks whose viewpoints drift from your own by calling them 'tards? Please. C'mon, dude. That kind of shit is uncalled for.

 

How do you feel when someone calls you a conserva-tard?

[scuppers]

I like it! “Dude”

[The_MS]

It’s not about right and left, it’s about what’s right and wrong.

[Drago]

If you reported to SafeSport, “this guy fist bumped my son after he ran a PB”, or ,”some dude was in his car and my daughter walked right bye him” they wouldn’t even look into it. That’s ridiculous.

Does it make me a “libtard” if I want to find ways to continue competition, especially for kids, being the alternative is sitting on a couch and looking at the phone? Nobody can handle stress or conflict or even losing anymore.They need to learn how to handle these situations.

Good call, @6balls :

I don’t particularly enjoy SafeSport, I do think you should be able to drop your kids off at a clinic and not have them creeped on. I also find it a small inconvenience that enables me to coach kids and hopefully make a difference. Or continue to drive and judge. I’m trying to tell you from experience it’s not that big of a deal. If this is your limit, fine. Honestly, a handle guard or helmet mandate would be mine.I don’t care about a background check, Apple and google probably know more about me than I can remember .

Also,Chuck, you don’t host tournaments or judge or score or drive. Are you just here to make fun of people? What’s your motivation ? Clearly not to promote tournament skiing.

[Jody_Seal]

Coming out of the ski or freeze tournament yesterday is was overwhelming as to how many skiers will not rejoin AWSA under the current direction and mandates that have been handed down. I would guess nearly 50% said no not coming back and another 25% on the fence. Now everyone of them said the would join /affiliate their selves with an alternative series, organization or what ever and as well as volunteer to make it happen.

 

I still hold hope that the AWSA leaders we voted in

will do whats right by their membership and squash this nonsense

[Golfguy]

The new regulations re SS say that the LOC and hosting club will be responsible to uphold SS rules. I think this places a great deal of liability on the host and the entire lake owner community. Unless I am reading the regulation wrong, I can't see placing all of the owners of the properties on our lake in this kind of jeopardy. I must either sanction my normal 4 tournament for 2022 or opt out. Can anyone shed light on the placing of SS responsibility on the LOC? Thank you

[teammalibu]

@ski6jones I cant even handle your dog, sure as hell not qualified to watch your kids!

[ski6jones]

@teammalibu but she LOVES you.

[The_MS]

@Golfguy makes a great point. It appears that LOC are getting set up to fail.

[6balls]

@scuppers I only called you "dude" cuz I'm a nice guy. Interesting that you "like it" when people associate your viewpoints and political persuasions as being retarded--or the connotation that you yourself may be retarded. Most others don't like to be called retards and consider it insulting. Do such insults fit with your value-system?

 

Further, you took a shot at a good chunk of people (on this website) with whom you presumably share commonality--a passion for waterskiing. Smooth move--your conscience not mine.

 

[scuppers]

@6balls - Give it a rest already.

[teammalibu]

@The_MS I am a Judge,Scorer,Driver,Safety,TC. whats that gonna cost me?

[dbutcher]

Unsanctioned tournaments can be fun too.

[ETskier]

Ski Freeze or Die yesterday was going to be my last tournament, and I am ready to quit USAWS. From talking with some folks, and from this thread, it appears an AWSA split will be discussed at the winter board meetings. Not holding my breath, but my membership doesn't expire until February. So I'll wait and see.

[ski6jones]

I did the 2 year membership last March. At least I'll have all those other USAWS benefits for an extra year since I won't be able to ski.

[ToddL]

@ski6jones they're "Perks"

[ski6jones]

Literally cited by "management" to make me feel better In lieu of a refund for that lost year of membership $$.

[The_MS]

@teammalibu it will cost you your life savings if you put your CC number in same web page as your Soc S number.

In reality, your membership cost should be 1/2 of what a non judge or driver pays and the members that are not judges or drivers should pay more.

[unksskis]

Again, @scuppers is not an AWSA member, and is only here pushing his political agenda and mentality. Throwing around generalizations about BOS and AWSA members as being "libtards".

 

Who would have imagined the day we would have these terms being posted on BOS and @Horton do nothing about it?

[Wish]

Agree, that level of insult almost boarders on being mentally challenged for even posting it. There are terms simply not used any more in public do to the stigma it casts on those with true cognitive issues. Now if you want to use the term retarded with the timing of an engine by all means. But I bet there is a skier or two on here that has someone in there immediate family that would find that word beyond offensive. Even if morphed into another word. No place for that here.

[The_MS]

Let’s get back to why SS is a bad idea and why the mandate should be reversed.

[6balls]

@The_MS is there anything new to say that hasn't been said? This horse is more dead than dead(it's more dead even than your beer thread, eh? Or that crazy Vapor thread from few years ago). It isn't just SS, right? It is SS, background, driving records etc. Either the existing organization caves on all of this (I have to think powerfully unlikely), or something new has to pop up in it's place that escapes the shadow of perceived liability.

 

You need to lobby, and if it doesn't work any/all that don't like the result need to end their membership, and then collectively decide what to do next in terms of any organized, amateur waterskiing sport.

 

The amateur-organized sport is at risk, the existence of new ski boats is at risk(IMO). This is true regardless of the side one takes on this as a skier--because there are a large number of skiers ready to leave.

 

How about a new thread? What do you proactively do, and who will participate in, creating something different for those that find the existing situation untenable?

 

This would hopefully get rid of unproductive insults and turn this from a complaint-fest into something productive. There is a lot of emotion here--I'm trying to be a voice of reason.

[Jody_Seal]

@6balls

In a protest it does not end till the protesters say it ends. Period! Hitting the opposite point harder now is crucial to the cause.

It is all pretty simple if your worn out over this thread, stop subscribing to it! There are a number of other threads and conversations on this web site that may spark your interest.

 

And Merry Christmas sir!

 

 

 

[The_MS]

@6balls This thread is far from dead. Just trying to keep it on track. Hopefully we have enough backlash to put a dent in the overhead budgets that they create. Loosing a few members is one thing but loosing whole ski clubs and sanction money is another problem they will have.

[RichardDoane]

I'm going to check with our lake insurance about being without USAWS membership. Liability coverage is all we really need. The SS mandate and background check BS is exactly that - BS.

[rfa]

@6balls, in my opinion, yes you are and have been (a voice of reason). But a new thread? Really? We are now on the 5th thread (to recap, "2021 is my last year of USAWS", "The politics/censorship poll", "Another platform, championship series other then USAWS/AWSA would you participate", "USOC - Stay or Go?", "Safesport comments from an EVP"), ALL started by the very first comment in this thread, 9 months and 35 pages ago. @The_MS posted at the time "2022 they are requiring Safesport training for all members. I’m done." A few posts later, he explained "I just don’t agree with teaching a almost M6 guy to be Woke."

 

"Woke", "liberal left", "sheeple", "Fidel Castro", "redrawn USA maps", "libtards", "mandates", etc, etc. are "emotions" (in my opinion) neither relevant to the subject matter, nor resolved by a new thread. They are the the essence of these threads. A sad but reasonable reflection of our society.

 

It was Safesport training not just for officials, but all skiers, then background checks and MVR for officials, then liability for LOC, ever evolving arguments, no solutions. Ironically, on the "Safesport comments from an EVP" thread, a new post just suggested that after all Safesport might have focused training more on skiers than officials..."JOE SKIER just showing up to ski and can lurk around the site all day...".

 

I commend your "faith" in the community...

 

[Horton]

@unksskis I would have to be willing to read this thread to find the insults mentioned.