Trying Gopro again

[Keith_Menard]

After some abysmal experiences with various gopros over the years, I am taking the plunge and trying the 11.

Any tips or tricks for using it for ski coaching?

[scuppers]

Just last week on. YouTube I saw a side by side comparison with a new IPhone 14 and I thought the IPhone performed better. Figuring out the mount (maybe a ski dock) may be a challenge. I have a GoPro 8 with all the stabilization and GPS activation but I’m not really that crazy about it. You might check it out for yourself.

[pregom]

@scuppers - suggesting an iPhone to @Keith_Menard is like suggesting to him to love snakes...

[skimtb]

Do you have a spotter to video or need a pylon Mount?

[jhughes]

GoPro is really not the right zoom level for waterski video from the pylon, it's incredibly wide angle. If that's the reason you got a GoPro you have the wrong tool for the job. WakeEye plus cell phone plus pylon mount is what you need.

[twhisper]

I shoot all my videos with a GoPro and a Wakeye. Works great for what I do with it, which is watching my own videos to learn how I can improve my skiing or using it as a coaching tool.

There are different levels of zoom settings.

[BrennanKMN]

The digital image stabilization improved greatly in the Hero10 or newer. The 9 wasn't bad as well. If you're comparing it to anything older than a Hero9 that doesn't have the newer image stabilization or zoom, I would recommend the upgrade.

I have mine setup with the GoPro Labs firmware, GPS auto record, custom date/time based file naming, auto power on/off and the 1.3x zoom. I record in 1440 or 4k as well, so I can also digitally zoom in later if needed - although I have yet to find the GoPro too far away at 22 and shorter.

Just start the boat, the USB is connected to the boat power and the GoPro turns on and does its thing. Turn the boat off and the GoPro turns off. I set it up to be completely transparent and no work to use otherwise it'd never get used.

[gcam4]

The best I can tell, they removed the narrow lens option on the hero11. @Keith_Menard I am in the same boat as you and was waiting on the 11, but I may purchase the 10 because of that. Can anyone confirm they removed that lens option? Also, has anyone used any of the other options out there? DJI OSMO action (they just released the 3)? Insta360 one rs? I know the GPS trigger may be an issue, but maybe the other players have an option and it is just really hard to find the info on it.

[Maxsend]

@gcam4 you are correct, the Narrow lens has been removed from GoPro HERO11 Black. Nevertheless, the same FOV can be achieved with HERO11s Linear lens and 2.0x zoom. Alternatively, you can over capture with a wider FOV and crop it down in post (app). With 5.3k resolution, you can make these adjustments in post and maintain the imagine quality.

From my experience with the Ski-Doc, you need a reasonably wide FOV. Wake Eye is better, but not available.

Is there something you want me to test? I have both H10 and H11 and can do side-by-side tests tomorrow.

Here are a few clips from another post.

2.7k 60 FPS with Linear Lens + Horizon Leveling, HyperSmooth On:

30% zoom at 28 offhttps://gopro.com/v/dMoeVlrv6l0gd

30% zoom at 32 offhttps://gopro.com/v/qznw80w0O0dnL

30% zoom at 35 offhttps://gopro.com/v/RoKQa9pnpVqz1

And yes, I work for GoPro :)

[owennibley]

@Maxsend I like how stable the gopro makes it. I tried skidoc with phone setup and it was horrendous.

The only thing I don't like on your videos you posted is it's hard to see the details on the skier. Is that because of the FOV? Is the H10 better for that? If zoomed in more is it still clear?

I was 2 or 3 clicks away from purchase of the H11 but chickened out because I didn't know for sure if it would work how I wanted it to.

[Maxsend]

@owennibley when using a ski-doc with more zoom, the skier will go out of frame. Holding the actual camera is the only option for zoomed in footage. Here's what happens with too much zoom - https://gopro.com/v/qzw6LWywWo42E

As for quality, the example above was captured at 2.7k, but you're not seeing source quality through this web experience.

I video every set (and payback on a laptop/desktop), which has been extremely helpful. Without a GoPro and ski-doc, it just wouldn't happen. I also use the beta firmware with speed triggers, to start and stop recording for each pass.

[skimtb]

I’m pretty happy with GoPro9 at 40% zoom, although we do handheld. Also, I’m looking at on computer screen, which is surely helpful vs a phone.
Also x2, use “shotcut” free software to make slow mo videos for fun. 0.3x is pretty nice. 60fps seems to be enough for that.

[Cnewbert]

@Maxsend I modified my ski doc so it both tracks the skier marginally better and it puts the optical axis of the lens in the center rather than off to one side, eliminating parallax. The result is I can use a little higher digital zoom on my GoPro 9 and get equal coverage left and right.

[MichaelWiebe]

All done with a GoPro 9, GPS automatic start/stop, and a SkiDoc. No complaints at all, except for my skiing.

[503Kento]

In upgrading from a GroPro 7 to a 10 (courtesy of the BOS/GiveGo/GoPro drawing) I realized that the stabilization is so good, it actually inhibits the SkiDoc’s ability to keep the skier in the frame. When I first tried the 10 I thought my SkiDoc was getting stuck or something. With my 7, I could zoom to almost 2x with the 10 I can only do 1.4 which starts to loose the skier at -32.

Apparently, the stabilization algorithm sees the rapid swing of the camera from one side the the other as something it needs to dampen thus making it look like the camera is never pointing far enough out. I have confirmed this behavior by turning off all stabilization which allows the skier to stay closer to the center of the frame but suffers from the shaking like a phone.

You can also see the effect by the manually pivoting the SkiDoc quickly while you watch the screen. You will notice a lag in the image when you stop at max rotation.

@Maxsend Anyway, maybe with a QR configuration, to tone down the horizontal swing stabilization?

[gcam4]

@Maxsend what is the max zoom on the 11? I cannot find that info anywhere. I just want to make sure I can zoom in as much as possible without loosing quality. I would prefer to not have to post process as I am always limited on time!

I tried out my neighbor's hero 9 and was really impressed with the image stabilization. So I know the 10 and 11 would be subsequently better. I just want a simple solution for recording, which the go pro has.

[Maxsend]

@503Kento The different levels of HyperSmooth, require different levels of cropping/zooming. The more stabilization required, the more the FOV is cropped-in. This allows the stabilized frame to bounce around the total FOV to deliver a stabilized image.

The different levels of HyperSmooth also behave differently:

• AutoBoost- maximum stabilization with dynamic cropping (meaning the amount of crop will change based on the stabilization needs), not recommended for pylon mounts.
• Boost - maximum video stabilization with tight cropping
• HyperSmooth On - maximum video stabilization with minimal cropping (recommended for pylon mounts).

The QR config won't change the stabilization behavior.

Once you decide on your resolution (5.3k, 4k, 2.7k) and lens (Linear or Narrow) with "HyperSmooth On", then adjust the zoom level to meet your preferred FOV.

[Maxsend]

@gcam4 The H11 has 1.4x zoom with the Linear Lens. I'll shoot a sample tmrw and report back.

[gcam4]

@Maxsend thanks for looking into this. Be great to see the difference between the two. What would the equivalent zoom be for the 11? The 2x you mentioned earlier?

[Keith_Menard]

@MaxsendThis is pretty amazing! https://gopro.github.io/labs/control/custom/

It would be great if you could store a couple of these IN the phone, but I would be curious what you would use for all the video settings on an 11.

[gcam4]

@Keith_Menard you can store them in the phone with either the app or the website. The app allows you to label them but the small amount of time that I have used it, I found the website easier to use. Just save into your photos as a screenshot and make them a favorite.

[Keith_Menard]

@Maxsend For 15 off pylon mount I was going to try this:

[Maxsend]

@Keith_Menard Those settings should capture a skier at 15 off. Testing is the only way to know for sure. In my experience, HyperSmooth "On" is good enough. "Auto" will likely crop more than necessary.

When using QR codes with speed controls, make sure to set "Camera auto off" and "Screen Auto Off" to "Never". There's a weird bug that requires the back screen to stay on. I set "Display Brightness" to 10% to reduce battery drain and overheating.

Camera PreferencesGPS - OnDisplay Brightness - 10%Camara auto Off - NEVERScreen Auto off - NEVER (THIS MUST BE SET TO NEVER) You can set the display brightness.

Delayed ActionsStart at GPS Velocity - 46 start, 46 end (=29mph)REPEAT COMMAND - Check

[swbca]

I have considered switching to a GoPro many times but don't want give up the Narrower angle of a phone. This is a video frame from an 8 year old Samsung Galaxy S5. It has no stabilization issues like the newer phones I have tried.

But it skips some frames because it can't process the panning fast enough. I might try a newer phone using the cable-loop stabilization mount discussed earlier in this thread.

If I could get rid of the skipped frames with a newer phone, I would be able to preserve the "normal" focal length view. GoPro owners have given me the "shutup and ski" routine when I talk about preferring a narrower view, but I can ski and like a narrower view video at the same time. When a GoPro owner showed his video zoomed-in in an earlier thread, the video was very soft focus. Not sharp like this frame from an 8 year old phone.

I have a featherweight Nikon digital SLR that will mount on the Wakeye. I am going try that next week, hoping it doesn't break from the jerking around caused by the rope snapping tight.

(This is my M7 friend who just came back from world tournament) Video frame with old Galaxy S5

[Keith_Menard]

@Maxsend Is there a creator site where I can do all those settings?

[Maxsend]

@Keith_Menard There sure is. See my post here for instructions and links.https://forum.ballofspray.com/discussion/comment/434352/#Comment_434352

Here's the webpage were you can create configurations:https://gopro.github.io/labs/control/custom/

[Keith_Menard]

That is the one I am using, but I don't see where it will allow preferences

[Keith_Menard]

nm

[Maxsend]

@gcam4 I shot a couple sample clips with the HERO11. Since it's a new, larger sensor it'll take some testing to find the best zoom level. Below you'll see the Linear Lens at both zero zoom and full zoom (1.4x). Full zoom with the linear lens is too much, so it's clear that the narrow lens isn't needed.

I did my best to generate slack and test the stabilization :smile:

H11B, 5.3k (16:9) ,60 FPS, HyperSmooth On, Linear Lens

No Zoom28 off - https://gopro.com/v/Lv8WLgzeWbBMy32 off - https://gopro.com/v/Db2W41e19NXKE

1.4/100% Zoom (full zoom)28 off - https://gopro.com/v/eQkGmK2BDoXEk32 off - https://gopro.com/v/8vD4P7PO0qP4E

[gcam4]

@Maxsend thanks for doing that! You just barely go out of frame.

[gcam4]

@Maxsend I just got an 11 and setting up my qr code. I do not see the zoom option anymore. Am I missing something?

[Maxsend]

@gcam4 congrats on your new camera. Zoom isn't available for all "Lenses."It's available for Linear and Wide (Narrow isn't available on H11, and isn't needed with Linear and zoom).

[twhisper]

@Maxsend 6@32'?

[gcam4]

Thanks @Maxsend Zoom wasn't showing from the get go and then I had Linear+HL selected which got me puzzled. Switching to Linear shows zoom as you have shown above.

[Slalom.Steve]

Hey @Maxsend, my HERO11 is coming in the mail tomorrow, just wanted to check in if you've discovered anything new/useful for pylon-mounted ski recording since these last posts? I'll be using a Wakeye mount. And a couple specific questions:

1. In the Labs QR generator, what are the "Camera Mode" settings (1st line/option)? The word "endurance" doesn't show up anywhere in the HERO11 manual.

2. For the "Preset" options (2nd line/option), it seems like those are just "all-in-one" settings that would adjust the rest of the options (ie, from the manual: "Cinematic captures stunning 5.3K high-resolution video (4K in Extended Battery Mode) at 30 fps. This preset uses the Linear digital lens.") I assume I just don't select any of those options, then? Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I selected "Cinematic" but then manually picked 4k60fps, which is in conflict with the Cinematic preset?

3. For the GPS speed activation option, I assume the HERO11 is the same as the 10 in that I need to keep the LCD on, and thus should also set the brightness to low?

Below are the settings I've got prepped, let me know if you see anything amiss:
Thanks!!

[scoke]

@MichaelWiebe

 

 

Cool video and gorgeous lake. Where is that if you don't mind me asking? state or name of site? can send PM if you didnt want to share.

 

[Maxsend]

Hey @SlalomSteven I don't have anything new to report, but I did create a doc to help inform folks like you. There are a few critical settings that must be followed, like Screen Auto off, GPS, Repeat commend and Camera auto off. Also, you don't want to use "set date and time automatically", that's for another purpose. The data and time on your camera should be set automatically when paired to the GoPro Quik app, so you should be good. 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q9n76tuTqR5B3-KAaBUY0XBo1Qybe1d7HXowh9fCYQM/edit?usp=sharing

[03RLXi]

@Maxsend thank you. My wife gave me a Hero11 Black last summer and I used it on skidoc just with standard settings, no speed activation,etc. Got some good video however often observer would forget to turn it on or off. I was reluctant to play with config too much  (#) but now with your clear guide I'll give it a go before our waterski season starts in a few months.

# Config and editing had been difficult, mainly due to no internet in the area, only have old slow laptop & iphone 6 with limited storage

[BGrow76]

@Maxsend Every time you ski and want to record do you need to point the camera at the QR code or just the very first time?

 

[MichaelWiebe]

@scoke Deland, FL.

[Maxsend]

@BGrow76Yes. To activate the speed trigger command, you need to scan the QR code after powering on the camera. I bookmark the URL in my browser and scan it. It's really easy. Alternatively, you can print the QR code and scan it, which works better in direct sunlight.  

[Maxsend]

@03RLXi There's no need to wait until ski season. Test it in your car and see how it works. Have fun. 

[Fastguy888]

I have the 11 and like the fact I can mount on my Bimini or mirror and capture the whole course without a follow device; then at 4k I can zoom in and use editing software to give the follow effect for Vertical Instagram etc and still look good. This one was in the widest Superview but can capture whole course also in just Wide view that is a little tighter. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CvDbIEtA16e/

 

[Hucklefin]

@Maxsend 

Sorry if I missed it, but what pylon mount do you use? Your videos looked really good, others I see with a ton of vibration and basically unwatchable. 

[Slalom.Steve]

3 hours ago, Fastguy888 said:

 can zoom in and use editing software to give the follow effect for Vertical Instagram etc and still look good.

@Fastguy888 - What editing software do you use to get a subject-followed crop?

[03RLXi]

I'll have to buy https://gopro.com/en/us/shop/mounts-accessories/usb-pass-through-door/ADCOD-001.html to get it to run long enough for lake sessions as we can be there 2-3hrs waiting for turns and there's no way the crew will remember to scan code after swapping battery. If I buy that the door and cable I can power on GoPro and scan QR before they even enter the boat then know it's set and all auto speed start/stop for the whole session. 

Looks like may have to add this power setting into the QR code too. I think keeping battery in and changing setting will be best option as keeps GoPro going when boat off between runs.  https://community.gopro.com/s/question/0D53b000098jyurCAA/i-have-read-that-running-an-external-battery-with-the-internal-removed-helps-keep-my-hero-11-cooler-but-the-hero-11-tells-me-to-plug-it-in-a-5v2a-power-source?language=en_US    

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by 03RLXi

[KRoundy]

@Maxsend Thanks for posting that link to the document you made!

[CReckard]

Am I understanding correctly that the camera won’t remember the settings and you must scan the QR code every time you power up the camera? 

[BrennanKMN]

17 minutes ago, CReckard said:

Am I understanding correctly that the camera won’t remember the settings and you must scan the QR code every time you power up the camera? 

You can create a file/script that lives on the root directory of the SD card and it will run it on every boot. Just copy the long text string that is the output of your desired QR code. Then you need to run a QR code to tell the GoPro to look for your script.

 

Quote

• BOOT=!Lscript - A command to run automatically at boot. For safety, this should only be a load script command, so that the command is dependent on the SD card presence. e.g. !MBOOT="!Lboot" Then you can place whatever command you need in the boot script with !SAVEboot="your command here". See an example in IMU Triggers for Drones
  • An inventive use of oMBOOT="command", 'oM' commands do not survive power cycles, so this is not a "boot" command, but this style of command will run as a subroutine.
  • e.g. !10:00NoMBOOT="!SM3D4H5!R" <- Wake at 10am, then motion capture continuously.
  • vs !10:00N!SM3D4H5!R <- which will wake at 10am, but only motion capture once a day.

I have mine all setup where I just turn it on and forget about it. It has my custom recording speed presets, video format, file naming convection and even displays my name and phone number on each boot incase I misplace the GoPro.

[Slalom.Steve]

@BrennanKMN - Next level!! But sorry, can you clarify the specific steps a bit more? My GPS setting QR text string is oSoB1oC!SK48-47!R , so I put !SAVEboot="oSoB1oC!SK48-47!R" into a .txt (or something else?) file on the SD card? What do I name the script file, and what QR code do I show the GoPro to get it to look for the script every time on startup?

Thank you!