Urgent Waterway Alert: Please Take Action

[ETskier]

The company I had come to respect the the most for answering our needs in a 3 event tow boat recently, Mastercraft, is selling us out for their surf and wakeboard boat business. It's inevitable,  we on the serious and recreational slalom side are destined for private ski sites. Just look at the rest of the world.

[ETskier]

It's a freedom thing, uniquely American. They are taking it away from  us. 

[ETskier]

The company I had come to respect the the most for answering our needs in a 3 event tow boat recently, Mastercraft, is selling us out for their surf and wakeboard boat business. It's inevitable,  we on the serious and recreational slalom side are destined for private ski sites. Just look at the rest of the world.

[503Kento]

If the regulators are coming for the surfers, it’s only a matter of time before they come for skiers. It has already happened here in the Portland OR area.  A major section of the Willamette river has a complete ban on towed water sports during the summer.  Where we ski, surfing and ballast is outlawed plus we get to pay an extra fee to participate in any form of towed activities. 

[jcamp]

On 12/15/2023 at 7:45 AM, 503Kento said:

If the regulators are coming for the surfers, it’s only a matter of time before they come for skiers. 

If they come for the skiers, it's BECAUSE of the surfers, the destruction they cause, and people's inability to recognize that we are different types of users and have different impacts. MasterCraft is actually fueling that misperception by trying to rally us all to the "watersports" flag. 

[slow]

That’s the most ridiculous panda I’ve ever seen. You’re in bed with Mastercraft and they live off wake surfing. Wake surfing is driving these bans right now. Public lakes are becoming a disaster  for 90% of the people using them due to wake surfing for both people on the water and homes on the shoreline..

[DW]

The 24-36 hour window has passed, could any of the initiators of the urgency warning provide feedback on what legislation / restrictions / actions have been taken?  Thx in advance.

[Mastercrafter]

Nevermind, decided I should just be happy today.

[MDB1056]

Whole thread is never mind……

[Horton]

I am not going to defend the original post in this thread. It was poorly executed, and I only vaguely understand where the wheels come off the bus. Sometimes when your biggest business partner asks you to do something you do it. I have not read most the abuse above because I consider it to be silly and myopic.

I am humored by how volcanic some of the response is. Must be winter.

Beyond how we got here, this conversation does bring up some interesting points of conversation.

2 things can be true:

1.      At your local lake the surf/wake boats are the bane of your existence as a water skier.
2.      Without wakeboards, tubes, surf, and whatever we would have far fewer ski companies and potentially no ski boat companies.   

I understand the visceral disdain some of you have toward surf boats. 10 years ago when I bought a house on a ski lake one of the other owners told the other owners to “F*ck off” if they did not like it and he went out and put a big surf boat on our small slalom lake.  I was so stressed that I literally lost sleep. To this day I think he is one of the most loathsome humans I have ever met. Horrible human. So I understand those of you who are irrational about is problem.

For many of you wake and surf boats mean shoreline damage, torn-up slalom courses and docks, local and state regulations, ridiculous loud music, and so on and on and on.  Yes, the list of grievances is legitimate.

If you have been around long enough you might even remember the decline of pro skiing from its high point and the rise of wakeboarding. Back in the 90s many of us went from being curious about this new wakeboard trend to resenting everything they stood for overshadowing 3 event skiing. They were tattooed, long-haired, loud music, pot smokers and we were mostly straight-laced clean-cut traditional water skiing.  Yes, these are silly generations but there is a thread of truth in it.

What most people did not understand at the time was that when HO was having tough times Hyperlight was paying the bills. When Connelly was having hard times CWB was helping pay the bills. O’Brien Wake absolutely paid some of Andy Mapple paychecks.  I am sure it goes the other way too. Wake and ski brands form the foundations of the greater organizations. The hard pill to swallow is that tubes are often the most profitable segment for these companies. 

An industry insider told me today that a large part of why the ski companies did not simply become wake companies in the late 1990 - early 2000s is because the guys who worked there were skiers. Not because skis were the better business. Today the wakeboard business is a lot harder but that is another tangent.

When we get to the boat companies the picture is more stark. Jim Ross ( @razorskier1 ) ran some sort of private equity fund & he told me a story years ago about meeting with the CEO of Malibu Boats. One of the takeaways from the meeting was that the ski boats were built to show product diversity to the shareholders. Now I was not in that meeting so it is hard to know exactly what was said but the point was that Malibu did not even view ski boats as a profitable market segment. Depending on who you believe Malibu makes between 15 and 30 TXI s per year ( =/- ). ( We lost Jim a few years ago and he is greatly missed. )

I am not sure what happens inside of Nautique but from the outside, you can see they make many times as many wake/surf boats then ski boats and MANY MANY x more money on wake and surf boats. They would not make the 200 or the SN if it was not profitable but I seriously doubt they spend any time talking about what is good for tournament skiing.

MasterCraft still has skiers on the inside like Freddy, Aarne, and Krista. Lucky for all of us the ProStar has proven to be a good business even if the bread and butter for the company is the big wake boats. Like it or not MasterCraft makes more ski boats than anyone and even at MasterCraft the ski boats are a small fraction of the production. 

We have to all remember that without the wake boat business, there would likely be no boat company.  

The future of slalom or 3-event skiing is wholly intertwined with wake and surf.

[Horton]

We are the WNBA

 

[MISkier]

I’m still not writing any letters that give up one iota of available waterway for ski boats and water skiing activities.  I’ll object to any legislation in our State that introduces or changes such regulations in any detrimental manner.

I already didn’t like the effects of Public Act 451 of 1994 on slalom course permits and was disappointed that previous collaboration (or lack thereof) between legislators and the water ski association allowed it to happen.  I’m not interested in giving anything else away.

I do fully support the 200 foot limit for wake boats and surf boats, though, if they want to draft it accordingly.  It could even be further for additional safety and reduced damage.

 

[jpwhit]

For the sake of discussion, let's imagine that a worldwide ban on any wake enhancing device such as ballast, surf tabs, surf gates, etc. became the reality and could be fully enforced. In such a scenario, I do agree it would cause profound changes to the entire water sports industry.

But I do not agree that it would result in the demise of the 3-event skiing. Would some of the existing boat and equipment companies go completely out of business because they couldn't adapt quickly enough? I think that's certainly possible. Could it result in fewer companies making ski boats as a result. Yes, I think that's possible as well.

I do not think it would stop people wanting to be out on the water doing water-based sports. Therefore, there would still be a viable market with enough revenue potential to fuel the rise of new companies to fill the demand for products. Change always tend to be a little scary and unsettling, but sometimes change is good and results in a better outcome in the end. 

[Dano]

There are so many issues on public lakes. From what I see in our lakes it’s a lack of knowledge, common sense, common courtesy, and basic driving skills that causes the majority of the problems.  Whether it be a surf boat, jet ski, tuber, skier, swimmer, etc…. It’s the humans that need educating, in how to be safe, and get along with others.  You can blame the boats all you want, but they have people operating them. Boating in my area at least is a free for all. Anybody can buy a boat, throw it in the lake, and run around WOT every which way.  They don’t even know or understand why others on the lake might be upset about it.  

[DW]

I hope, and I feel it is, that what the passionate members of this forum are saying is simply - please don't jeopardize the sport of waterskiing due to the bad actors of the surf sport.  It should be in everybody's benefit if the target audience is dealt with, not the entire industry. 

[jpwhit]

I tend to think the issue with surf boats is a bit different than with other water sports that have caused contention with other boaters and dock owners. There is effectively an "arms race" going on with surf boat companies to create bigger and bigger wakes. It's just like the megapixel race with digital cameras. The way you get people to upgrade to the newest boat, is to have a bigger and better wave than the previous model and your competitors. 

Especially with people that live on lakes, they recognize this trend, and they have to think when will it stop. And because nobody see's an end to it, I think it prompts people to feel like they have to take action. I also think that's why the problem can't be fixed simply by educating the boat owners. On the lake where I have a house, which is in a fairly rural area, for the most part the majority of the boat owners actually are fairly competent. But even with operated well clear of other boats and docks, the waves on the latest boats are still causing issues. 

I have wondered if it would be practical to put a size restriction on generated wave size. It would have to be done at a certification level directly with the boat makers just like emission controls are done for cars. The certification test would have to be based on measuring wave energy at a set distance from the source (boat). I think this would drive a more sustainable approach by the boat makers. They would have to focus on the quality of the waves produced instead of the size. 

[morfoot]

 Living on Lake Lanier which is north of ATL for almost 4 years now I have seen a so much in the time that I have lived there than in the 30+ years I have been an avid watersports enthusiast. Georgia does not require a boating license for anyone born before 1998. Those born after 98 have to take an online boating course which I assume is attached to your DL if pulled over by LEO. In my time as a FT LakeLife resident, I would love to see a Marine DL required by the state. I know some states have them and I wonder for those that have them do they educate Captains about etiquette when it comes to surfing? Some surfers have it but in my experience most don't. I just don't get it. Have any of you in states that require a marine license seen any difference in maritime courtesy??

Lanier is a huge lake and when I was house hunting, I wanted a home on open water so that I could just free ski right off the dock. I live in a quiet cove where skiing isn't allowed because of the close proximity to a marina and because our cove is narrow. Now that I've been there awhile, I'm glad I'm not. I've made lots of fellow LakeLife dwellers and several have a place on the main channel. They are looking to move to a quiet cove because they cannot simply enjoy their dock on the weekends. The dock is rocking and rolling from the constant pounding from surf barges and 45' yachts motoring down the lake. One has a X30 which he loves as he is a surfer and his daughters enjoy it too.  When he goes he surfs in Open water on the main body of the lake. It's a double-edged sword in his case. He does have serious dock maintenance at least once a year from the beating his dock takes. The boat is on a hydrahoist so it doesn't get damaged from the tidal waves sent his way Fri-Sun.  

Its a problem for us all as it has been mentioned here. Surf boats out sell ski boats by 10-1 ratio if not more regardless of brand. I've seen lots of new surfboats from the all barge mfg's but have NOT seen a single NEW ski boat from any of the 3 that still make them. Maybe because they're all on private lakes. It's something we all large lake skiers have to deal with but I do think education is the key and we try to explain it to all the thurfers we talk too. Some are understanding and work with us but many are just screw you bro. We're surfing and if you don't like it, ski somewhere else.  Shoreline trees are falling over everywhere and the ACOE and the Lanier Homeowners Association are sarting to put rip-rap around many of the islands to prevent more erosion from the huge waves from boats and constant weekend traffic. Many dwellers simply don't go out on the water weekends. Let the Weekend Warriors have it. You're safer that way.

[chrislandy]

42 minutes ago, morfoot said:

Have any of you in states that require a marine license seen any difference in maritime courtesy??

 

In France, you have to have a licence for anything over 5hp. It'a a theory and practical test where you have to demonstrate competence in maneuvering the boat, be able to identify things on the boat, flags, signs etc.

On the lake I go to there it does mean that generally people know how to operate a powerboat, the police will pull you and check for licence and insurance and if you don't have it, they will escort you off the lake. If you act like an idiot, likewise (jetskiers don't last very long)

   

[The_MS]

State and local elections are very important. You get what you vote for 

[tjs1295]

What a surprise it’s come to this. The manufacturers and owners are their own worst enemy. The “arms race” mentioned above is so accurate. How did anyone not see this coming? And the manufacturers shouldn’t worry too much in Wisconsin. Senate Bill 680 was created for them. No wake surfing on any lake less than 50 acres, stay 200 feet away from everything, and no local government can create more restrictive rules. 🙄

[sgregg]

52 minutes ago, tjs1295 said:

No wake surfing on any lake less than 50 acres, stay 200 feet away from everything, and no local government can create more restrictive rules. 🙄

Wouldn’t it be great if the manufacturers were lobbying for authorization to place a minimum of one slalom course on any body of water greater than 50 acres, stay 100 feet from shore, and no local government can create more restrictive rules 😉 

Edited December 18, 2023 by sgregg
Clarification

[Jody_Seal]

world games drops watersking in Lew of big wake sports...phfff! 

[DW]

@sgregg - from my original post, a Michigan legislator attempted to write a favorable ordinance in to law only to discover it would have limited his ability to ski.  Competence is not a requirement for a politician.

[MISkier]

This has some information on the proposed (and eventually retracted) legislation that @DW is mentioning.

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2019/03/25/michigan-legislators-proposed-boating-curfew-law-draws-criticism-he-clarifies/

Terrible bill.  Would have been catastrophic to water skiing in Michigan and would have affected many other water activities in all kinds of vessels that currently enjoy more access than proposed.

[VONMAN]

@Mastercrafter If I remember right the course my brother and I put up on Walled Lake, the permit was for 500 feet offshore. I thought that was a bit overkill at the time, but it was that or nothing. (1988)

It looks like the lawyers have decided to control another sport. The same thing happened to using springboard diving in public schools. The pools have to 20 feet deep and you can only dive off the end of the board, no flips, no forward back flips, jack knife or swan dives. No hurdle or spring bounce off the board. That was a sport I loved and truly miss.

Slowly you lose more of you freedom to enjoy life. Bit by bit they take more.

[DW]

@VONMAN - Hence in my humble opinion, the skier community should push back to avoid / minimize more gov’t restrictions to avoid losing the sport.

i sent my thoughts to WSIA, not trying to stop the education elements to the surf community but to not push potential legislation that limits the existing waterski opportunities.

[ski6jones]

It would be great if we waterkiers  had some organization to help sort things like this out.  On second thought it's probably better we don't. 

[The_MS]

@ski6jones an organization run by the government probably wont take action against the government. I mentioned this back in the SS thread. This is only the beginning.  Like @VONMAN said, bit by bit. 

[Horton]

from a boat manufacturing perspective, we must accept that ski boats and surf boats are intertwined. if the surf boat business crashes then three event boats may very well cease to exist. nobody wants to hear this but I think it's true.

 if the surf community is successful at putting their money and influence behind their agenda so they can survive. then we want them as allies not as enemies.

the other possibility is that the surf community is so unwise and that they get themselves kicked off every public lake in the country and they destroy their own community. if that happens then we are screwed anyway.

nobody likes what they're doing on the water but legislatively and in terms of the boat business, we are all in this together and they are driving the boat.

[tjs1295]

Didn’t these companies all make money before surf boats? Won’t they be capable of making money in the future even if the boats are regulated or eliminated? Or will these regulations really completely eliminate the inboard ski boat companies? Hopefully they’re being proactive, and not putting all their eggs in one basket. as I said earlier, these manufacturers had to see something like this on the horizon.

[Horton]

@tjs1295 the markets have changed. The industry has changed. Is like saying Starbucks could go back to only selling actual coffee. In theory, they could but I do not think it would go very well.

[tjs1295]

@Horton I get what you're saying, but wouldn't Starbucks still be pretty good at making money if the laws say all they can make is regular coffee? This topic makes it seem that if the ski boat companies can't make (or sell as many) wake boats, that they will all simply stop making boats, and cease to exist. I know it's a big wish, but is there even a chance that the regulations on wake boats would actually improve the numbers of people water skiing? Or are we saying that any new laws on wake boats will lead to the elimination of any human being being towed behind any boat on any object?  

[Horton]

@tjs1295

Currently, Starbucks makes actual coffee, all sorts of sugary drinks that might have some coffee in them, even more drinks that don’t even include coffee, plus muffins, sandwiches, cheese plates, desserts, and who knows what else. If you told Starbucks that they could only sell coffee they would have to totally redesign their business model.  Since they spent the last 20 years basing their operations on selling lots of stuff besides coffee my guess is they would go out of business if they could only sell coffee.

The boat companies are likely in a similar situation. Now let me say that I do not think the boat companies are looking at extinction any time soon. What I am saying is that in a doomsday scenario where wake surfing becomes a crime, these companies would likely cease to exist. I am also saying that the bulk of the revenue in these companies comes from the surf business.

There is a lot of conjecture here. All I am trying to say is that I understand how skiers really dislike what wake surfers do on the lake but from a wider view we need them.

[Horton]

17 minutes ago, tjs1295 said:

I know it's a big wish, but is there even a chance that the regulations on wake boats would actually improve the numbers of people water skiing?

I wish this was not crazy fantasy talk. I would like to think it could be true but I think there is approximately zero chance. 

[Drago]

1 hour ago, Horton said:

I wish this was not crazy fantasy talk. I would like to think it could be true but I think there is approximately zero chance. 

So there's a chance!

Circling back to the fact that slalom skiing is really difficult and surfing is pretty much the easiest thing to do behind a boat besides tubing.

 

[rawly]

If the R&D money could be used to eliminate the wake rather than enhancing it , we may have a better chance 🤷‍♂️ I know it can’t be eliminated , but more research could help the wake at the 15 off length.  Even the new Mastercraft has a wake that will disturb a newbie that just wants to fluidly link a set of turns. Progression from beginner to expert would be quicker if that pesky wake wasn’t in the equation. So many of us learned bad habits just to deal with that curb that was between our turns. The better you get , the more fun it becomes. Make it easier for the masses to advance and they might like it 🤷‍♂️  

[Horton]

@rawly I love you man because I know you're sincere but I'm starting to wonder if your kids have been slipping you magic brownies

[tjs1295]

Regardless of how this would impact slalom skiing, don’t the manufacturers have to do something to change the way these wake surf boats are made? I live in northern Wisconsin, where a lot of the smaller lakes are, so I can’t speak about other parts of the country, but I don’t see this battle going away by simply agreeing to 200 foot spacing and some education to purchasers. Studies like the one done at the University of Minnesota are probably just the beginning. And the Wisconsin conservation Congress did a statewide survey last spring, and nearly 66% of the people who responded want these boats regulated.

I’m not really for the boats or against them, I’m mostly curious about where this all goes. It’s a pretty hot topic where I live. There are a lot of people who are very passionate about preserving what they think the ideal northern Wisconsin lake getaway should be. That does not include loud music, or damage to the lakes, wildlife, and their personal property. And a lot of these people are, or were very successful in their professional lives that now have nothing better to do than to fight for what they believe in.

Then again, I know nothing about laws. So maybe if they pass the weaker law, that will be the end of it, and the arms race can continue.

 

 

[VONMAN]

I have a new student (mid 40's) I'm coaching. He has a son so he has a wake board boat. Needless to say we are using my boat for slalom skiing and one day we are out on Lake Weir (public lake) and a wake board boat drives by as my student is skiing. I hit the wakes first and my student doesn't let go of the handle at first. He lets go deciding that he likes his knees and ankles. We swing around and pick him up, and I swear to God his first words were "I never knew my Wake Boat wakes could hurt other people? Now I know why you hate them so much".

I've added his son to our training, he's a total beginner but he's loving it. Even heard him tell his Dad to sell the Wake Barge for a Ski boat. Two new skier's to add to the list.

I'm still trying wrap my head around how you would make wake/surf boats wakes smaller/tamer? Don't see that happening without restricting displacement and the manufactures just keep making them bigger.

[buechsr]

1 hour ago, VONMAN said:

I have a new student (mid 40's) I'm coaching. He has a son so he has a wake board boat. Needless to say we are using my boat for slalom skiing and one day we are out on Lake Weir (public lake) and a wake board boat drives by as my student is skiing. I hit the wakes first and my student doesn't let go of the handle at first. He lets go deciding that he likes his knees and ankles. We swing around and pick him up, and I swear to God his first words were "I never knew my Wake Boat wakes could hurt other people? Now I know why you hate them so much".

I've added his son to our training, he's a total beginner but he's loving it. Even heard him tell his Dad to sell the Wake Barge for a Ski boat. Two new skier's to add to the list.

I'm still trying wrap my head around how you would make wake/surf boats wakes smaller/tamer? Don't see that happening without restricting displacement and the manufactures just keep making them bigger.

Now imagine your Centurion being impaled on your dock from the same wakes.  A few posts ago you were alluding to lawyers taking away freedom?  Freedom is all well and good when it doesn't damage other people.  Then, the perspective (must) change.  I say that as a wakeboat owner, long time public lake property owner, and recipient of wake damage from totally ridiculous operation.

Personally, I lay substantial responsibility on the manufacturers.  Whereas the PWC industry knew they had to tone back the speeds of what they were capable of or else they'd find themselves in governmental crosshairs, wake boat manufacturers provide zero helm reminders (to my knowledge, and I've had 15+ wakeboats) to people of some basic damage/reputation mitigation.  Had we seen for the last 10 years some basic helm reminders to avoid shorelines, avoid boats at anchor, use discretion when using your $10,000 stereo, some face could have been saved that guns don't kill people, people do (wake boats don't cause damage, people do).   They've been pumping boats out to people, many with simply limited understanding of "most" people know.  And, as a result of clearly insufficient educational efforts, governments will start throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  Hardly a surprise.  

[buechsr]

To add to my last (since I can't edit for some reason), think about the Malibu bow swamping tragedy and resulting lawsuit.  Had there been a warning on the windshield saying bow capacity is x, or not for use when boat is in motion, 1) the incident very likely wouldn't have happened and 2) Malibu would have had nothing to worry about.  Instead, it wasn't even tested, nor warned about.

A simple "This watersports boat is designed to create large wakes and waves which can cause damage and injury to other boaters and shorelines.  Please do not use within (whatever) 500 feet of other boats, docks, or shorelines as doing so can cause irreparable damage".  It would have been that simple. 

The moronic wakesurf boat owners I see, I  don't think are doing so intentionally.  They don't know any better.  So who is the point of contact for educating them?  In my view, it starts with the manufacturers.  

[DW]

@buechsr - unfortunately, the US tends to operate on the reactionary side of the spectrum.  Many or even most warning labels are the result of the actions noted in your post, sometimes it can be very challenging to determine how something will be used ahead of time.  As evidence:

[buechsr]

7 hours ago, DW said:

@buechsr - unfortunately, the US tends to operate on the reactionary side of the spectrum.  Many or even most warning labels are the result of the actions noted in your post, sometimes it can be very challenging to determine how something will be used ahead of time.  As evidence:

Purpose is 2 fold:

1) effectiveness for some 

2) to save face with regulations by a preemptive attempt.  
 

While perhaps dumb, Subway accomplished both.  Quarter million dollar wake barge manufacturers are accomplishing (not even trying) either…and now soliciting “our” support.  Ironic, is it not?

[aupatking]

It’s a tough conversation, for sure. Waterski boats are made to produce small wakes. Surf/wake boats are made to put out giant wakes. At least wakeboarding took skill, to the point that any beginner to low intermediate would not even want the giant wake and 5,000 pound ballast. Surfers, well anyone can do that s#!+.

Unfortunately, it comes down to people. Stupid people, who put what they want as highest priority.  They are the “F off, I’m doing what I want” people.

my 26 foot fishing boat puts out ginormous wakes, even at speed. I’m hyper conscious of that on my river. Once I get to the bay, then the gulf, I could care less as my wake is smaller than the waves surrounding. Wake Surfers and Wake boarders do not show the same respect. My 26 though, no one is telling me I can’t plow like hell, and that’s a problem. 

Existing “you are responsible for your wake” laws need to be enforced before we add more crap laws. Maybe that’s what really needs to be said.

[Jody_Seal]

so you all know this is surfing.... trying to replicate that wave on a inland waterway is what is irresponsible by manufacturers as well as end users. 

Reap what you sew! 

[jjfresh]

On 12/22/2023 at 12:41 PM, VONMAN said:

I have a new student (mid 40's) I'm coaching. He has a son so he has a wake board boat. Needless to say we are using my boat for slalom skiing and one day we are out on Lake Weir (public lake) and a wake board boat drives by as my student is skiing. I hit the wakes first and my student doesn't let go of the handle at first. He lets go deciding that he likes his knees and ankles. We swing around and pick him up, and I swear to God his first words were "I never knew my Wake Boat wakes could hurt other people? Now I know why you hate them so much".

I've added his son to our training, he's a total beginner but he's loving it. Even heard him tell his Dad to sell the Wake Barge for a Ski boat. Two new skier's to add to the list.

I'm still trying wrap my head around how you would make wake/surf boats wakes smaller/tamer? Don't see that happening without restricting displacement and the manufactures just keep making them bigger.

Funny how this sort of thing happened to me.  I just recently started skiing.   We have a 2018 Nautique G23 and I liked wake surfing a lot (was never obsessed with it though).  Now that I like skiing...I'm completely different.  The wake boats are extremely obnoxious and have no respect for anyone out on the lake.  We will usually try and ski early on the weekends, only to find a wake boat surfing in flat water at 8am...it makes no sense.  I love my boat, but I'd much rather have a pure ski boat at this point than my wake boat, especially now that I've fallen in love with skiing.

[swc5150]

As others have stated, this was inevitable.  I live in WI and property owners are simply done getting their docks and shoreline destroyed.  I also don't believe manufacturers will stop building ski boats, but if they do, I'll continue skiing behind my bro's '12 200.  It's not like there's been a revolutionary hull since the TSC1 anyway.  Now get off my lawn!  

[Dano]

I do agree with @aupatking ,  just enforce the existing law “you are responsible for your wake”.  But in saying that it is also the exact reason we are having this conversation.  The question is who is going to set the standard for what constitutes a dangerous wake?   Surf boats in my opinion certainly create a dangerous situation for others.  But perspective is everything.  around here kayakers and SUP'ers will tell you how much they hate those guys in the ski boats the pass by at high speeds and nearly dump them in the lake.  even though the wakes they are experiencing are about as small as you can get. 

[Horton]

can we agree  to blame fishermen ?

[aupatking]

Again to agree with “this was inevitable”. They’ve created a very dangerous situation for everyone else on the water. I also believe there’s a distinct possibility that if surf and wake boats got banned that ski boat sales could go up. The manufacturers being so worried about losing their surf boat market is likely to kill them though. No legislator gives a shit about the difference between waterskiing and wake surfing. They are ALL going to get lumped together in any law and then the manufacturers lose 100% of their market.