AWSA and USAWS, One size fits all

[Jody_Seal]

Before I go in with my dissertation i would like to thank BOS for allowing and providing an avenue for AWSA members to openly speak their minds, offer suggestions as well as even bitch and rant over issues with in the sport. Thank you as AWSA does not have a platform outside of trying to deal with the powers to be within..

 

AWSA and USAWS, One size fits all.

I received  a copy of the new water skier over the weekend and read through the rag. nothing new, typical information basically akin to bend your knees, same old content that the rag has been printing the last 25 odd years.

But what struck me was a article written by the new executive director for usaws. in the article Mr. Michael and i quote, "to put it simply, we need you on the water and we need you teaching first timers how to enjoy this great sport. and after that, I am asking for your help in getting these new skiers to progress and even join a team or enter a tournament.. And there we go;:)" you are all now appointed to our new membership committee

 

Well i have a few questions:                                         Why? why be on the membership committee? how does it benefit me? dont get me wrong, i have and continue to introduce as well as reintroduce  young and old alike. so far none have decided to join a team nor enter a tournament.. yet some do come back just to ski....it does nothing for me as a member of awsa, yet awsa and usaws make it more and more unattractive to be apart of.                                     some of you may know i do online tech work now for Nautique parts.com as well as ski-Dim (Cheap plug). at least once a week and sometimes more then once a week i am recognized and i also recognize old friends and ski acquaintances. in conversation with many of these customers the topic of tournament skiing comes up. i often ask are you still skiing? 90% of the time it is yes. are you still entering tournaments and again 90% of the time it is no.. Why one asks. most the time the answers are internal politics, excessive rules as well as just the over the top costs to participate. i also get, i like to ski rather then sit around and watch others ski.

I now ask, be apart of what? Where again are the benefits to being a member of AWSA. Volunteer hours of time as well as spend my own money to attend what is referred to as competition that in reality is not. spend and donate to others advancement yet not be either recognized or are belittled because your talents do not come up to what some in the organization say is their standard.

What benefits the membership if we are on the membership committee? What benefits the Organization if we boost membership and how does that benefit existing members? i will stay away from the protection scam they are running. you know take USOC money's and pay it back to the the safe sport mafia. about the only members getting any benefits are the 6 or so "Elite Athletes" who get their health insurance paid for.

Where the one size fits all comes in is is this the business model for AWSA? "you are all now appointed to our new membership committee" Now this might work for the Toad group of enthusiasts but the three event crowd i think are happy with the current direction as a failing sport and have managed to whittle down the AWSA membership so as that the affluent have it all to their own. kinda like polo ideology. 

"you are all now appointed to our new membership committee" If this is Mr. Michael's business plan the organization is truly doomed! 

There will be an addendum for sure as i type slow and currently need to move onto other aspects of  the daily routine. I am sure some will get butthurt as well as some will chime in with their assessment. What would you like to see the organization provide for your participation in either three event or Toad water sports? What could they provide other then "you are all now appointed to our new membership committee" ??

 

[The_MS]

Its as if they are a government organization. 
Get politics out of skiing and maybe it will still be a sport in 20 years. 

[unksskis]

It was an underwhelming introduction, drop of an opportunity to first introduce oneself to the membership and set/manage expectations. 

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal 

First of all "I love you man"

Look, either you want to be a part of and participate in USAWS or you do not. If you do then we need new members and participants. The "how" is another discussion. How to keep a struggling organization afloat is a complex problem. I do not disagree with all of your criticisms but I am unclear on what you think is the correct action. 

If you are simply over it and done with USAWS then I am not sure why we are having this conversation. If you want to see USAWS survive then I do not see how you disagree that we all should care about new members and participation. 

[jayski]

@Horton maybe they should focus on those they lost and then worry about introducing new...and how about getting the large amount of home owners/casual skiers on all the lake developments to actually get a membership...and stop 'taxing' and depending on the dwindling tournament skier group...

[Horton]

@jayski I do not disagree with your premise. "HOW" is a puzzle.  I have sympathy for anyone trying to crack that nut.

[MitchellM]

I'm an avid tennis player.  The parallels between the tennis world and waterskiing are interesting.  Millions of people play tennis at all levels as a recreational sport.  These folks don't need to join a society to play a friendly game.  However, if you want to compete, you must be a USTA member.  They have a hold on that aspect of the sport and are responsible for rankings, etc...

How many folks out there like to ski with a recreational intention only?  Take the family out on the boat and free ski while enjoying the water.  This is probably the vast majority of skiers.  We don't all want to compete.  No need for those folks to join and support USAWS.

At the end of the day, these governing bodies and our "elite" athletes are the ambasadors for our sports.  The do need to step up and encourage participation at a grass roots level.

[buechsr]

The USGA has 700,000 members.  Exceedingly few of those play USGA events. USGA members feel a benelovent calling to support the organization that supports their sport.  I’m sure “Some” people justify abstaining from joining based on what the USGA (doesn’t) do for them, but not a single one of them would criticize the President of the USGA for encouraging members to expose new players to golf or encouraging competitive progression.  Many in waterskiing have and do the same, with or without supporting USAWS. That’s their prerogative.  Personally, I respect the tall tasks USAWS must deal with and will gladly pay my dues long after tournament admission is needed.  

1 hour ago, MitchellM said:

I'm an avid tennis player.  The parallels between the tennis world and waterskiing are interesting.  Millions of people play tennis at all levels as a recreational sport.  These folks don't need to join a society to play a friendly game.  However, if you want to compete, you must be a USTA member.  They have a hold on that aspect of the sport and are responsible for rankings, etc...

How many folks out there like to ski with a recreational intention only?  Take the family out on the boat and free ski while enjoying the water.  This is probably the vast majority of skiers.  We don't all want to compete.  No need for those folks to join and support USAWS.

At the end of the day, these governing bodies and our "elite" athletes are the ambasadors for our sports.  The do need to step up and encourage participation at a grass roots level.

You’re right, there is no “need”, but they should feel a modicum of a calling.  

[Jody_Seal]

John its time to change your catch line, I love you too but you are part of the problem in the sport with that type of come back or response.

what the problem is one size fits all! that means that the direction of AWSA is same as wake,barefoot,any of the toad watersports. well the dynamics of AWSA is far different then that of the walley sports. 3 event is competition or at least should be. the dynamics of the other sports are to each individually separate also.

What is the business model for AWSA when you get the off the wall directive as posted above it will not work when the exodus and bleeding of membership has an impact on offering potential skiers into the sport. we put a ton of time , effort and money into a junior development programs only to see the youngsters go away after they are no longer a junior only because our pro level is really not a pro level. our organization will call skiers pro's but in reality there is no support nor want to have an impact as to supporting professional 3 event skiers. no professional backing, no business model.

there is not a drive like other sports to stair step to the national championship. nationals are really the only competitive event for amateurs in the usa. leadership with in the awsa continue to believe that everyone gets a trophy with the rankings ideology. one does not have to beat an opponent to get to the championship level. all one has to do is go to a setup tournament and get their rankings score.. Oh an go to a BS mandatory regional s again as a participation event at least for the most part.

To many age groups for the amount of members in the sport. men women 1&2 have the same set of competitive parameters. same with men 3&4 (at least in slalom an tricks}. same with juniors, 5 age divisions has depleted the overall quality and level of performance overall.

getting new skiers into the sport under current over the top policy's, rules and politics has shown to be fruitless. let alone getting previous skiers back in the mix.

Sadly the obvious escapes the leadership and for the most part the leadership is happy with status quo. ok well this would not be right with out some ideas. lets start with a business model:

What are the long and short time goals?

What are the demographics are you targeting?

How can it be made to be more enjoyable as well as more accessible?

what parameter's policy's need changed to achieve these goals?

how can the cost to participate be brought down?

 

And for Horton, no i am not over it i am over the sweat equity with no foreseeable benefits. i am over the anal policy's and rules that exclude participation and or stymie participation. and yes been there done that but will do it again if there is a set of goals established other then financing some skiers "score"

more to come......

 

 

 

Edited April 30 by Jody_Seal

[Horton]

@Jody_Seal I do not disagree with many of your points. I think anyone paying attention can see the problems. I just don't know that anyone has solutions. 

Let's take the rankings list. I 100% agree that it has changed the culture of the sport. Tournaments are often just trials. How are you going to put the toothpaste back in the tube?

At most tournaments in SoCal, I am either the best in my division or I get smoked by 4+ balls ( Larson ). For me, the rankings list keeps events with not enough good skiers interesting. I ski against my score. That is not the way it was 35 years ago but that is where we are today. Would you take the rankings list away? If so when I go to SoCal the tournaments are going to be very uninteresting for me.

Now that I am in NorCal there are some really solid guys in my group and we are competing with each other. At NorCal events, I am stoked if I get a good score against my average AND I am trying to beat @Mateo_Vargas @schroed & @grubbs.

 

Too many divisions? Well yea, I am 100% on board that we F***ed that up and could fix it. When there are not enough kids to fill a podium at Regionals then the division has the wrong age range. 

 

These are the kind of things that can be addressed but "How can it be made to be more enjoyable as well as more accessible?" Now we are in the land of Unicorns and Lollypops.  It is a huge problem for the sport but I am pretty sure it falls under "It is what it is"

[ETskier]

The vast majority of amateur golfers and tennis players who do play in tournaments and leagues play by handicap, many on teams, even flighted by ability.   Bowling too. Pros play straight up scratch. The 1 good thing about our ranking system is we already have a handicapping base to work with. My favorite tournament last year was Travers Grand Prix pro am. I was skiing poorly and wasn't going to set a PB, but all I wanted to do was bring in points for my team. FUN. 

[DvarianDan Johnson]

• What's the value proposition of membership/joining? 
• Same as @MitchellM noted in tennis - it's only if you want to compete
• So what's the value prop in competing?
• Opportunity to become an elite athlete
• So what's the value prop of becoming an elite athlete? Certainly not making 7-8 figures
• Reality checks along the way include extensive training costs, fewer tournaments, lower participation, higher tourney costs, extended wait times, etc. etc.  

There is no compelling value prop here.  From all indicators this is a dying model.  It's not complicated. Kudos to @Jody_Seal for putting this back on the table . It's not popular but its real.     

[The_MS]

700,000 USGA members.  I wonder how many have to complete safe sport training prior to playing in the local club championships 

[Horton]

38 minutes ago, DvarianDan Johnson said:

So what's the value prop in competing?

Same as any amateur competition. Why do anything? Why play tennis or ride bikes or play basketball. 

[ETskier]

One value the old AWSA provided was the Waterways Committee.  We are at a crossroads now with local, state, and even fedearal lawmakers being asked by the public to look at banning or severely controlling lake rights for us. We ARE going to get caught up in the wake board, wake surf backlash. We need our organization to get out in front of this to separate traditional water ski boats.

[CharlieThreeThree]

Quote

Why? why be on the membership committee?

Has it occurred to you that you can politely decline and let that be the end of it?

[DvarianDan Johnson]

2 hours ago, Horton said:

Same as any amateur competition. Why do anything? Why play tennis or ride bikes or play basketball. 

Organization membership isn’t required for most other amateur events . Can join community leagues, intramural events, etc.  We need to stop trying to justify

[buechsr]

3 minutes ago, DvarianDan Johnson said:

Organization membership isn’t required for most other amateur events . Can join community leagues, intramural events, etc.  We need to stop trying to justify

Just as no one is required to join the pickleball association to join the YMCA and play, no one is required to join USAWS to ski a non sanctioned event.  

[MitchellM]

You need a USTA membership to play in sanctioned tennis tournaments.  Local club events don't have this requirement.

[WiscoSkier]

4 hours ago, DvarianDan Johnson said:

• What's the value proposition of membership/joining?     

Not that it’s a huge value but membership does offer discount for many different things through perkspot.

Now also think it could be better and I feel like an easy incentive for USA waterski would be having more manufacturers provide discounts

If you search the word “ski” on perkspot 5 things show up. 
 

1 for snow skiing

1 for USA waterski apparel 

1 for skidim (boat parts)

2 ski manufactures. (Only 1 with discounts for non collegiate skiers)

I feel that membership could be incentivized  with additional discounts from the companies we are already likely spending money with.

 

[buechsr]

3 hours ago, The_MS said:

700,000 USGA members.  I wonder how many have to complete safe sport training prior to playing in the local club championships 

Although I posted that membership stat, that’s an inaccurate comparison to the issues raised in the opening post.  Opening post dealt with why would one benefit by USAWS membership.  The overwhelming majority of the 700,000 USGA members see no direct benefit whatsoever.  It’s just a benevolent gesture of wanting to belong to an organization that supports what they like.  No USAWS member has to take safe sport, Only if they will be competing.  Notably, cursory web searching suggests all affiliated with “First Tee” must take safe sport…as well as US soccer, usta etc.  

…but is this another thread about safe sport?  Or the direction of USAWS?

 

[jjackkrash]

I suspect the USGA has a lot of members because you usually need a USGA GHIN handicap to reliably gamble with other recreational golfers.  

[buechsr]

1 hour ago, jjackkrash said:

I suspect the USGA has a lot of members because you usually need a USGA GHIN handicap to reliably gamble with other recreational golfers.  

https://support.usga.org/membership/#:~:text=A Handicap Index® is,visit usga.org%2Fgetahandicap.
 

Apparently, not.  See link.  
 

in my experience that’s done through your state association, and per the above link at the bottom.  
 

In reviewing what USGA membership “does” for you, seems remarkably lacking yet money pours in for the benevolence of golf programs and education.  

not a response to your post jjack, but USAWS is not a charity.  That said, if we collectively look at USAWS through the lens of “what  do I get out of it?”,  that’s short sighted for the sport.  

[jjackkrash]

It's been a while since I carried a handicap, but I was under the impression that the USGA/AGA were integrated.  But, sorry for potentially erroneous side comment, carry on.  

[buechsr]

34 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

It's been a while since I carried a handicap, but I was under the impression that the USGA/AGA were integrated.  But, sorry for potentially erroneous side comment, carry on.  

You’re a plus 2, right?  👍🏻

[unksskis]

Typical thread that veers well beyond the point of the OP and into arguing over other sports’ applications.  Go golf, go play tennis, but nothing is comparable to the situation at hand. Jody is expressing how the membership is tired of the same old, and providing specific inquiries and concerns as to why aren’t there more specifics.  
 

what does bringing new people to the sport do?  What value does it bring? What incentive does it provide? 
 

This was KevCo’s opportunity to engage, and the choice was telling everyone to go pull some more people.  

[buechsr]

7 hours ago, unksskis said:

Typical thread that veers well beyond the point of the OP and into arguing over other sports’ applications.  Go golf, go play tennis, but nothing is comparable to the situation at hand. Jody is expressing how the membership is tired of the same old, and providing specific inquiries and concerns as to why aren’t there more specifics.  
 

what does bringing new people to the sport do?  What value does it bring? What incentive does it provide? 
 

This was KevCo’s opportunity to engage, and the choice was telling everyone to go pull some more people.  

Other sports’ governing organizations are not “comparable to the situation at hand”?  I disagree.  Everything is comparable.  In fact, comparisons to healthy organizations are wise to make. What are those sports and organizations doing?  It’s wise to study and emulate, just as in any other facet of life: skiing, parenting, career, etc.  

One example of a sport that has come out of nowhere to now be particularly prevalent, is Pickleball.  I just went to USA Pickleball’s website. It is dominated with requests for tagging it in social media and introducing others to the game.  Of course it should.  That’s the mission.  How is that so different than a simple request from Kevco in our monthly/quarterly whatever magazine?

In the original post, many grievances were aired.  Subsequently there has only been 1 concrete “fixable” complaint, which related to the thinning of divisions, essentially to (once again) tinker with the size of age groups.  People obviously have different opinions on that so that is not an actionable gripe unless the rules committee considers those tweaks.  

Other than that sole example, the OP, and other subsequent posts, generally disparaged Kevin Michael’s encouragement of members to get others skiing, and somehow twists that into rhetorically asking what does membership “do for me”?  

If any skier, competitive or not, USAWS member or not, can’t appreciate what Kevin was saying, we think differently. If current or “former” USAWS members are concerned with the expense of tournaments (sanctioning, officials, etc) surely they/we can appreciate that more revenue through membership better offsets the expenses of the organization.  What was so offending for Kevin to try to encourage USAWS members of the vital role of sharing the sport with others?  It doesn’t mean every new skier has to join USAWS, it just means the larger pool of skiers will organically create new members: a benefit to the organization, current members, and hopefully the future ski careers of new members.  

It’s not 1995.  IF people want to wax poetic about the good ol days, that’s fine, but all I’m reading herein is complaints.  No concrete suggestions are being made.  It’s just like the safe sport conversations.  All complaints, no solutions (because there were no alternatives), other than dropping your membership.  If you’re inclined to drop USAWS over a video that you could watch while changing your boat oil, fine.  But there is no utility in complaining without offering any concrete solutions to that which is being complained.  I’m not suggesting anyone keep their thoughts to themselves, far from it, express away, but coupling them with solutions makes it far more productive.

As far as I’m concerned, there was nothing wrong with Kevin’s appeal.

[JeffSurdej]

A lot of good thoughts and ideas in this thread, I always love these discussions but we need to be a little realistic.  Our sport will never be huge, let's just face it.  I am not saying it can't grow and be better but we are naturally hindered by so many factors out of our control, factors that will always prevent it from being like other popular sports.  Our sport was destined to shrink from the 90's no matter what anyone did or didn't do.  And I always laugh at the comparison to the 90's, which was for sure our time, ESPN, huge crowds, but do you realize back then we only had 25,000 members of which 15,000 paid just for the boat insurance.  So it's not like we were at 500,000 and shrunk to 14,000.  USGA might have 700k members but how many play golf recreationally, 50 million?  

We have a great sport, but politics and policies will always play a role as they do in every sport and everything in life,  I am sure the 90's of waterskiing had plenty of politics.  

So what can we do to make it better?  I think we have to change how rankings work.  Having a rankings list is important but when its made up of just your top 2 scores, and not based on competition, or some handicap, or how you did at Nationals, then it creates all this technology to assure scores around the world are the same.  The problem is how do you create local competition when you can only fit 30-40 skiers in a weekend spread across so many ages and genders.  The problem I see with rankings is that you only change your average or move up if you PB, I want to be able to go to a tourney, have a decent score and have it have some effect on rankings.  I want some skin in the game each weekend.  Honestly, if it wasn't for senior worlds I am not sure I would still be competing, our sport is so boring, we need competition every weekend on the water right at the event, I don't want to have to worry about getting a PB, I want to win or lose even if I don't ski great, I just can't figure out the way to make that happen outside of handicaps, anyone whos ever been to a handicapped event has the time of their life.  So maybe we need to bring on handicapping outside of a few LOC's doing it themselves.  IDK.

[Jody_Seal]

3 event/AWSA can not be equated to any other sport or programs. except with the Safe sport extortion. 3/ event is a sport dynamic all its own, how other sports are organized and run for the most part can not or should not be emulated. no other sport requires or utilizes multi million dollar facilities for true amateur competition.

@JeffSurdejHow come you did not bring those ideas to the table when you were president of AWSA? the level 10 mandate you were pushing took a number of great   skiers and pushed them out of the sport.

"So what can we do to make it better?":

1. eliminate the safe sport mandate for all members/skiers. most every member/skier will agree that anyone coaching, chaperoning juniors or jr team personnel should maintain a level of education pertaining to the overall safety of junior participants.                                                                                                                   if the organization wants to install a similar requirement for judges and drivers, put together a presentation with the mandatory officials maintenance clinic's, use that as part of required officials maintenance.

2. establish a membership pricing scale that is not a one size fits all. many many officials have not been on the water for a long time, especially older scorer's. there are officials in this sport who really never learned to ski yet provide excellent ability as an official. why charge them $90 a year to volunteer a couple times a year?

3. Jeff said it, the ideology  has changed as has the membership numbers. this is not the early 90's when there there were 110 mens 3 at a southern regional's. It is time to re think the competition groups. be realistic in abilities as these skiers from the early 90's are the biggest age groups in the the organization today, (men 6,7&8). for example, combine men1&2 call it men's division, same with women's 1&2. these are probably the smallest two divisions today in our organization and they compete under the very same rules. combine men 3&4 allow the current men 4 to jump under the same rules as men three and combine them. our age platforms, rules  and policy's have not kept up up the technology or the athleticism of today's competitor.

4. Does the leadership / membership really want to see  some growth? any Growth in the sport? i dont think so as reading into our past AWSA president's comments. However if the organization truly wants to see growth and returned energy into the sport it is time to create opportunity for the many many skiers that continue to operate on public waterways as well as even on private ski lakes. one only has to peruse Facebook, Instagram and the other then Ball of spray internet forums that are available. this is a gold mine of skiers that may want to participate in the AWSA but avoid the entity due to the many reason listed above in other comments. create or utilize current platforms that encourage membership growth and or membership sustainability.

5. if the organization wants to publish a magazine then for god's sake come up with new content and information. the hired gun executive directors first  attempt at an article was not one that inspired members for sure! get regional information in the pages. try some lifestyle articles. highlight in the trenches skiers and officials. get the magazine into the mainstream news stands... something different then the same old bend your knees articles..

 

 

I have more but again type very slow and type poorly, so off to the lake for some on the water fun... it's a trick day..

Too be continued.

 

 

Edited May 4 by Jody_Seal

[The_MS]

People don’t believe that we will ever achieve what was happening in the 90s again however everybody wants it to be like the 90s again.  I seen nothing but solutions offered in these threads, but people keep insisting that no solutions have ever been offered.

[Jody_Seal]

Just now, The_MS said:

People don’t believe that we will ever achieve what was happening in the 90s again however everybody wants it to be like the 90s again.  I seen nothing but solutions offered in these threads, but people keep insisting that no solutions have ever been offered.

Nailed It!

[JeffSurdej]

@Jody_Seal Jody, Jody, Jody.  I assume I am the past president you are referring to saying...

4. Does the leadership/membership really want to see some growth? any Growth in the sport? I don't think so as reading into our past AWSA president's comments. 

You were on the board with me the whole time I was president, do you honestly think I didn't want to GROW membership?  I busted my balls 40 volunteer hours a week trying to make the sport better and grow.  I felt I was transparent and listened, and god knows I tried a lot of things. Did they all work, hell no, was L10 a bust, yes, I admit it.  Thank god I didn't get the ED job, you would have had a field day on here with me :)

Now enough trashing and on to your reply which is spot on BTW

1) Safesport-I agree, coaches, ski schools, jr dev only...I am actually shocked this didn't kill membership more

2) Sliding scaling membership-freaking love this one, this was actually a proposal of mine when interviewing for the ED job, but yes Anna Gay who skis 25 tourneys a year should not pay the same as the guy going to 1 or 2 every year

3) Divisions-yes time to rethink them all

4) We have to find a value proposition for non-competition skiers

5) Magazine-couldn't agree more, go all in or get rid of it

Why didn't I bring this up more as president, probably b/c I was too busy putting out fires like grievances, lawsuits, and so much other BS that leadership has to deal with day to day.  And like you said many times, I don't think the issue is leadership as much as our current membership, our membership doesn't want the change, they like the sport as is.  

[jjackkrash]

7 minutes ago, JeffSurdej said:

 I busted my balls 40 volunteer hours a week trying to make the sport better and grow.  

Jesus.  I wish I could get 40 hours a week out of paid employees.  Thank you for those hours.  

[CharlieThreeThree]

Quote

Safesport-I agree, coaches, ski schools, jr dev only...I am actually shocked this didn't kill membership more

Do any of you work for an employer? Clicking the next button a few times once a year is way less than what the rest of the world has to do for work. If you really believe that this endangers the sport then maybe you're the problem. 

Has anyone considered talking to and figuring out what the younger folks actually want from the organization? Or do you just assume that since you're older and you've been around for a while that you know what that generation needs? 

[Horton]

Participation in the tournament skiing has gone down dramatically in the last 50 years. USAWS may have been mismanaged the whole time but USAWS leadership is not the one of the top 5 reasons for the decline of the competitive sport.

 

[Cooper_Trelawney]

@Horton I'm one of those skiers who competed in a lot of tournaments in the 80s and 90s in my teens and early 20s and haven't been in a tournament since 97.  My biggest reason was my career just didn't make it possible (geographic location, working weekends,  etc).  I'm curious to hear your Top 5 reasons for tournament skiing decline over the past 50 years.  TIA.

[jjackkrash]

I am pretty far removed from the upper echelons of elite skiing and the inner workings of the organization.  But from my perspective, the most important thing the organization provides is objective safety standards, training and oversight on these standards, in conjunction with a path to semi-affordable event/club insurance.  Without these basic things, the sport would be nearly impossible to underwrite without paying through the nose through something like Loydds of London.  In this modern world, there would be no such thing as organized 3-event waterskiing without semi-affordable insurance.   I think when proposals on how to "fix the sport" so to speak are thrown out you can't lose site if this core function.  

So, can affordable club insurance be obtained without participating in safe sport?  I don't know the answer, but if the answer is no, there's no point in complaining about it.  It's not realistic to think you can organize large sporting events without affordable liability insurance.  

 

 

 

[Jody_Seal]

1 hour ago, CharlieThreeThree said:

Has anyone considered talking to and figuring out what the younger folks actually want from the organization? Or do you just assume that since you're older and you've been around for a while that you know what that generation needs? 

great question and yes they have. and when many of them were stepping into leadership roles they were squashed and replaced with the elderly.. take rule's committee for example, look at the board. driver committee  if it were not for the aac representatives the rest of the board and committees would be eligible for medicare, or are! no that one dont fly either... the grip is tight among the seniors!! like it or not this sport got old!!

[Jody_Seal]

Lets be real, USAWS/AWSA has become a welfare institution. when the average cost of the new boat platforms are better then $100K. When ski prices are on the verge of gouging we see where the old guard has been all but forgotten in the organizations investors/sponsors. When this happens that a organization cant hold their own and need outside semi government help. Why? is this intentional or just plain bad business? I would like to see how the grant propositions/requests look like. are their not any conditions of foreseeable growth with these contractual agreements? it's a scare tactic, kinda correspond with the bottom line of the books?

@JeffSurdej yep! but a lot of misdirection and failed delivery..

 

 

[Drago]

10 hours ago, CharlieThreeThree said:

Do any of you work for an employer? Clicking the next button a few times once a year is way less than what the rest of the world has to do for work. If you really believe that this endangers the sport then maybe you're the problem. 
 
I’m not at all against SafeSport, but it creates a huge barrier to pulling in new members. We used to pull 3-5 people into a tournament during practice or even the day of the tournament. That's impossible now. SafeSport should be for coaches, appointed officials & Camp directors

[Statefarm]

“A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they shall never sit.” — Greek Proverb

[Interjon]

Here's a question.  I am 4 years new to the sport.  I love it and spend too much time on this site (and ski as much as I can).  However, I will never likely compete in a tournament.  For those like me in this situation (and there are probably many), is it good for the sport for me to join AWSA and others?  Please let me know.  

If so, I will make it happen today.  I want to be a contributing member of the community.

[DvarianDan Johnson]

@Interjon - the only thing you CAN'T do without a membership is compete in sanctioned formal events . So if that's not in your plans at all  - from my chair there's no compelling reason to join. 

[Horton]

@Interjon Yes I think so. Without a national organization the sport would lack any structure and would unravel faster. The personal value of your membership is questionable ( if you do not compete) but if more skiers joined it grants the organization the chance to do good for the sport.   

[buechsr]

3 hours ago, Interjon said:

Here's a question.  I am 4 years new to the sport.  I love it and spend too much time on this site (and ski as much as I can).  However, I will never likely compete in a tournament.  For those like me in this situation (and there are probably many), is it good for the sport for me to join AWSA and others?  Please let me know.  

If so, I will make it happen today.  I want to be a contributing member of the community.

Absolutely.  There's strength in numbers, however small we may be.  Plus you get a magazine, lol.  That I actually like.  Last month had article on Jaeden Eade, and articles written by Corey Vaughn, Seth Stisher, and Chris Rossi.  Personally I fail to see the criticism in the magazine content.  It's far from bend your knees articles. 

[DvarianDan Johnson]

Yes remiss of me to not have mentioned the still ongoing magazine, but in all honesty are U getting anything there that isn't readily available here (BOS), Spraymakers, FPM, Rob H videos, etc, etc.  Doubtful any new pearls of wisdom from the mag.    Membership if you're re not competing is of course being reconciled to the fact that you're mainly just supporting the greater good with your funding.  

[buechsr]

19 minutes ago, DvarianDan Johnson said:

Yes remiss of me to not have mentioned the still ongoing magazine, but in all honesty are U getting anything there that isn't readily available here (BOS), Spraymakers, FPM, Rob H videos, etc, etc.  Doubtful any new pearls of wisdom from the mag.    Membership if you're re not competing is of course being reconciled to the fact that you're mainly just supporting the greater good with your funding.  

Allows me to tell my kids to put their phones down and read something with a straight face, so as to not break my own house rules which are admittedly enforced too infrequently.  

[ETskier]

@Interjon  Supporting membership is only 20 bucks.