Custom Synthetic Leather Noose Eliminator

[Drago]

@OB-- I have a spine. It's simply not why I waterski. And especially not why I go to a forum.If I want to argue all day, I'll go down to the shooting range and bring up ObamaCare.

I stopped looking at Nichol's cuz of TW and some guy that knew exactly how to ski better than anybody. Literally took over the site with pages and pages of BS.

I wanna learn something, like you helping me figure out my GT40, and TW doing the water filled buoy test, and hopefully someone can learn something from me.

[h2oski]

@brewski Just sell the material, hardware stores sell gromet kits. Many of us make our own and it would be nice to be able to purchase the material in the color we wanted. Those of us making our own could post pics of how we set ours up in case someone was interested. It seems like the patent holder is more interested in litigation than selling the product

[ToddL]

Well, I finally got to ski with my Bruce Noose Eliminator this past week. All I can say is I never knew it was there. It didn't ever get in the way, I never bumped it, it didn't distract my eyes, I never felt any drag or air resistance, etc. At the end of the set, it was still in the exact same position and looked like it did before it ever touched the water. With my USGear handle there was no issues attaching or removing the handle from the tow rope.

 

I was really hesitant about using any type of handle guard. Now, I'm sold.

[Brewski]

This is the one I made for my new US GEAR Handle. Funny thing IT DOES NOT NEED ONE to keep my head out. It is a 12" handle and the triangle is short/tight so my head will not even fit though. Yeah I got a big head but it is nice to know that a manufactured handle is pretty safe.

My patent attorney friend says that the TW arm guard patent is too narrow and that my "No Noose" is made from flexible materials and does not infringe on his semi-rigid patent but that does not stop him from suing me. So they are still not for sale. If we write our own patent then we have grounds to go on but I am not ready to spend a ridiculous amount money like TW did to sit on a patent and not produce them.

[mwetskier]

ive been told tw has built and delivered many hundreds of his patented arm guards to customers all over the world so i dont know where to get the idea he is sitting on the patent and not producing them. he built every one my brother and me have ever had and his customer service is said to be un matched so your post just sounds like sour grapes to me.

[Brewski]

My Barefoot Handle

[Hipsup]

I've seen a TW armguard and it is a nice well made product. The fact is that no-one can say with any degree of certainty whether any guard would prevent an arm through the handle or not or indeed whether a home made version is any less effective.

 

However, what I can say with a degree of certainty is that any well secured guard would lessen the chances of putting your arm through and DEFINITELY prevent your head going through and for that reason alone any version is better than none in my book.

 

 

 

 

[AKShortline]

@OB Thomas Wayne is one of my main ski partners and a very good freind. I cannot agree more with your statements.

[AKShortline]

@Hipsup TW tested many designs for many years before coming up with the product he sells currently. I was there and had many of the prototypes on my handles. Trust me, there is a much higher "degree of certainty" with the Armguard. There is a reason for most details of the Armguard's design, most of which are for safety. I WILL NEVER SKI WITHOUT ONE AFTER WATCHING WHAT HE WENT THROUGH! Niether would you.

[Horton]

“If” I understand what is going on this makes me extremely angry.

 

We are talking about a safety device. We are talking about something that could have saved Brett Yeager’s life. We are talking about something that may save a life tomorrow.

I do not care who manufactures it. If TW launches a web site and makes his product available tomorrow I would have no choice but to promote it. I have used TW’s product and like it. If @Brewski launches a product I would do the same.

 

If TW makes his product only for the few skiers who can find him and is going to threaten @Brewski with a lawsuit for trying to market his product then next death is potentially on his hands.

 

Let me rephrase: If TW prevents a safety product from coming becoming easily available that is indefensible.

 

Someone is going to forward this to TW or he will read it here => TW bring your product to market or get out of the way.

 

[Brian_M]

I don't understand why TW doesn't just charge @brewski a licensing fee. I think @brewski product is superior in many ways to the AG. TW doesn't appear to want to market his product. Why not let @brewski do it and sit back and collect royalty cheques? Monetarily, I'm sure TW would be ahead of the game with this type of arrangement.

[Brewski]

@mwetskier no sour grapes brother you like to twist things around to a defensive/offensive competitive nature, and I am not going down that road.

To give everyone else an inside to what I was saying: There seems to be lots of people on this post saying that the arm guard is not a priority for TW and he/the arm guards are hard to get a hold of. It could be that there just is not the supply and demand that he expected when he started it all, and it looks like that could easily be the case with any product in this arena as anyone with some glue, a pair of scissors and 3rd grade education can easily make them at home. So as a person with the ability to think outside the box I look down the road that TW is paving and see the market for this product is not worth venturing any deeper to produce it as a commercial unit.

@Horton I totally agree with what you say about the next death being on his hands if he does not make them available and restricts others from providing devices that cold be saving lives then he will be the target of a large number of lawsuits the next time someone gets hurt. And YES it only takes a few minutes and a dollar bill to open a website or at least put them on Ski-It-Again........

 

 

 

 

[scuppers]

@Horton - I am very impressed by your stand here. I always figured you would error on the side of political correctness but you really surprised me and stood up for what you believe in. I think your position is a correct one. Great Job!

[Brewski]

@OB websites are NOT expensive. When we first started this on BOS mwetskier said he would give my information to his friend (TW) and did not give me any information on who he is or what product he was making/selling. I told him at that time I have NO intention of making these for a living, just for saving lives and I would be happy to help someone already in the industry produce them. IF mwetskier would have passed on the info properly and in a timely manner as he said he would, instead of starting shit as he has done, then none of this would be going on. So, @mwetskier you can be pissed at me for posting this but you said to me and I have it in an inbox that you would get us (TW and I) together to talk not start shit as you have done.....

[Brewski]

@scotchipman THANKS FOR POSTING TW'S INFO

HERE IT IS AGAIN IF ANYONE WANTS AN ARMGUARD : TWCUES@CGI.NET

I hope he sells millions and skiers are safe everywhere.........

[mwetskier]

@brewski - you are telling an in complete story i told you i would pass your information and linx to the thread on to tw and i also told you he was out of town at the time. i passed on all your info to tw thru my brother and as far as i know tw did get back to you. i dont know what crap you say ive been talking i am not in the middle of this at all. i think the real problem is you thought you would just do your thing and no one would care and now your mad cuz tw does care.

[Wish]

Sooo.. there's this option to PM someone. Just sayn.... Good read though.

[Brewski]

Sorry @mwetskier it just seems like you were always bashing my product and then TW starts his endless rantings on e-mail and again I am not mad, I did not start this as a business, only as a hobby to save a few necks so again Look at your last sentence it appears again you are poking to start shit.......

 

[Horton]

@brewski @mwetskier

 

I don't know who started it or who said what. I do not care. I am not going to go re-read. What ever the pissing match is - it stops now. .

 

Agree to disagree or debate like you would in a professional setting or take it somewhere else.

 

My forum. My rules.

[mwetskier]

i am not connected to tw or the arm guard in any way other than i know the guy thru my brother. i use the arm guard and i believe the facts ive been told about why its safer than other ways of trying to make safe handles and thats it. any thing else is between tw and brewski and i dont want to be drug in to it.

[Horton]

@OB Ok. I see where you are coming from. You are right, I do not really see this as business. This is about safety. TW has the first rights to the idea so he should get the first shot at the profits but if he is going to sit on it and someone gets hurt that is unacceptable.

 

If there is a death next year like Brett Yearger's are we going to say that if these two guys had communicated better it could have been prevented? How stupid do we all look then.

 

If TW really cares about this he should see this as motivation to market his guard or if he is not going to do it he should allow others to do so. Perhaps he can name his price per unit and take the money even if he is unhappy with how it all happened.

 

The current state is that the guys that read this thread know about TWs product and the rest of the skiing world might stumble on it. One way or another a safer handle is a good idea.

 

[Than_Bogan]

@Horton I like your response to OB's critique a lot better than your previous post on the topic. It's easy to forget that everything costs some kind of resources, so the basic thesis of "anybody who doesn't give away something that could save a life is evil" is not one that can hold up in the real world. But I now understand that you don't hold that belief. I appreciate the clarification.

[Brewski]

@Horton, @mwetskier, @EVERYONE ELSE Sorry for pointing fingers and ranting. It is not like me but I don't like being called a thief especially when I took NOTHING from anyone on this design and I am basically GIVING these things away. It is all here in the posts. The cost of the leather alone is more than I charged for the unit. I was just trying to save a few necks and do something fun besides look at casts of peoples feet all day. Anyhow I am done with it. If anyone wants custom ski boots contact me but forget these NN things.......

[gator1]

While it has been enormously entertaining to watch as you guys work your way through 200 years of patent law and capitalism theory alow me to point this out: if you want to save lives and avoid injury have your usa waterski group mandate use of arm guards. Would make a lot more sense than mandating driver background checks.

[Bulldog]

@gator1 Nailed IT!!!! Nicely put.

[Brewski]

Yeah @gator1 it is a growing concern in the sport. There are many aspects of safety that could be addressed in 3 event and barefooting as well at not only the national level but world level also.

This one being the most serious and if something got implemented it could get the whole safety ball rolling a little stronger than it has been in the past. Not that there is not great procedures in place in case something does happen but in the world of preventing it from happening in the first place.

I believe the triangle needs to be closed in all competition world wide period. The head comes close to that triangle so many times and all it takes is that one second for something to go wrong and it is lights out brothers and sisters. Now having said that, may be it should ultimately fall into the hands of the rope and handle makers to provide them. It would be a win win for everyone. They would have an immediate add on every product they produced in the past, and would be an upsell on all new handles. That puts more people to work, boosts the economy and TW could get Royalties or sell rights etc. but the real win would be that EVERYONE would get to keep their coconuts and ski another day and that is the only reason I ever made the NN's to begin with....

[mac]

@brewski, does the law allow you to give your Noose Eliminator away at no charge? Recipients will most likely want to make a donation to you for your time & "safety" concerns/efforts...

[Wish]

Still think they are so artistically beautiful with seemingly houndreds of color and texture combinations that placing them on a handle, if you so chose, is almost a waste. They belong on a wall. Not sure which way I would go. But, I'd pay a fare price just to find out.

[JJVDMZN]

@Brewski, sell it as"Vented panty fronts" we will send you templates of our "panties".

 

I'm new in Slalom skiing so the first pic I saw looked like kinky undies, only noticed later that it fits on the handle...

[MattP]

@jjvdmzn I think you win the award for the oddest post of the year. I don't know how to respond. You do you sir.

[chris_logan]

I second @MattP

 

[Brewski]

Now this post is going somewhere~!

[Brian_M]

To avoid serious abrasions, do not use plastic zip ties on your "vented panty fronts"!

[kona]

haha pretty much sums it up.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmFXEcI_AA4

[kona]

Ha

[kona]

haha pretty much sums it up.

 

 

[kona]

Whoops

[Brewski]

Miami Nautiques sells a hard plastic version. miamiskinautiques.com/Custom-Ski-Handle-Guard-p/ski_handle_guard.htmnull

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/mtyq5.eu2fn/v/vspfiles/photos/ski_handle_guard-2.gif?1378023447

[Brewski]

Paul Jager's sells 2 different hard plastic ones: jagersport.com/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=283

http://www.jagersport.com/images/B52%20(4).JPG

jagersport.com/product_info.php?cPath=89&products_id=245

http://www.jagersport.com/images/jagerguard.JPG

[Brewski]

In Tow's Version: intowtournament.blogspot.com/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1HpOWNqdhGU/UWiTdM3h_jI/AAAAAAAAAQQ/7j9k8nVlQWk/s1600/INTOWSpectraHandlewithCrossBar.png

[jipster43]

I have loved my FM arm guard, but changing ropes can be a pain - even though the arm guard is very pliable. I feel very fortunate that I jumped on the chance to get one of Bruce's Perforated Panty Protectors. I'm sure that it will provide all the protection with none of the hassles while looking fashionable enough for the runway. I'm sporting the Apollo Ono Red and will spend the winter learning how to lace and knot the bugger to my new US Gear Gordon Rathbun Pro V Radius handle! Merry Christmas to me!

 

Thanks Bruce!

[SkiJay]

@Brewski‌ Are you still interested in making your awesome noose eliminators?

 

I've been buying Arm-Guards from Thomas Wayne, or maybe I should say "trying" to buy them from Thomas, and I'm getting really frustrated. It seems as though now he figures he has the market all legally tied up with his patent, he doesn't seem to give a flying fig about timely delivery. My last couple of orders have taken upwards of a month for delivery after payment, and this is only after I've had to send him a series of reminder emails.

 

This is a safety item, and if TW is going to take his own sweet time delivering these safety items after he's received payment, it's only a matter of time until someone gets hurt while waiting unnecessarily long because the patent holder has a captive market. I'm not sure this is how patent protection is supposed to work.

 

Maybe ask your lawyer if TW's lack of market response opens a door for you, or offer TW a couple of bucks from every unit sold. I want to buy some of these beauties from you!

 

src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5017617/uploads/FileUpload/2e/05d8e6e04dc9c3e5a1ccb3a0214099.jpg" />

[Brewski]

Yeah, I am still kinda interested but the whole process to get an attorney to do our own patent and or fight TW; who in every threatening letter he sends to me seems to be a RAH, ends up costing more $$ than its all worth. That money is needed to market the product and get it to the customer not spent tied up in courts fighting a fool, so we threw in the towel. I want to save necks but not at the cost of my own. REALLY SUCKS. You should approach John Horton about this the whole thing, it is really bullshit and TW's negligence to get them to folks, someone should sue him.......and that's where I will leave it........ANYONE? ATTORNEYS? Jump on it. In 2 short weeks of making them they are now wanted world wide, in big demand, and instead of saving lives the projects sits idle..........

[ToddL]

Resurrecting an old thread. This is my current handle. I've had it and used it since 2013. Handle guard was installed that year and is still in like new condition.