Pro Star - Different week, different boat, same result.

[LeonL]

Well, last week I commented on the '14 Pro Star. Great screen. This week different boat, different state, still can't drive it! This time rudder torque was much less, but still a real challenge. Despite some comments from skiers that it felt good, boat crew commenting that they felt I was in synch well with the skiers, I wasn't so sure. I was able to review the end course video, and my assumptions/fears were proven......I was all over the place. I'm reminded of an old Jackson Brown song entitled "Cocaine". One section of the lyrics goes like this: "I've either gotta do more of this or less of this, I can't quite figure out which one." I've either gotta drive the PS more to get better or quit before the confidence level in my driving hits rock bottom, I just can't figure out which one! I don't want to sound like a bad attitude hater, just honest comments, and hope no one's feelings get hurt.

[Razorskier1]

Not sure what to say @LeonL‌ The rudders are pre-ground at the factory but prop selection has a big effect on rudder torque. My old PS had a lot of pressure with the four blade, switched to three blade and it was considerably less. As for driving, I have found it needs less input than it feels like it needs. I have found that I'm making very modest adjustments and driving better. That said, it would be nice if it was more intuitive to drive since many rated drivers will only see them at tournaments. Maybe talk to the boat owner ahead of time to see what they do?

[ForrestGump]

I'm loving our ProStar. And I'm a long time Nautique owner. Besides all the SN's and 196s I've owned, we're on our 4th promo 200 and this is our 2nd promo ProStar(sold the first one in only a couple of weeks). Honestly, I really like the way it drives, although at first it felt floaty. The driver is an integrated part of the pass and you have to treat it as such. Some of the drivers who drove ours this weekend commented on the rudder torque. But I like it. When the skier is at the apex, I can pressure against the wheel and point the bow as little or as much as I want and then block.

 

And as far as the amount of power out of the hole. It is what it is. At first I thought it was underpowered. Now I don't think so. I've found a way to get out of the water behind it and never get my hair or face wet. As the boat starts to pull, I press on the ball of my front foot and I pop out of the water as easy as on a wakeboard. We've got a ski partner who is like pulling a dump truck off the bottom of the lake on deepwater starts. He's fine getting up behind the PS, and in fact ran his 2nd ever 34/15 today behind it.

 

And you have to love the amount of room and ergonomics. I don't care that the ski racks cost $1500-2000. They are worth their weight in gold.

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s320/2gofaster/20140615_115754_zps9g1bgfb1.jpg

 

[6balls]

@shaneh agree totally on those racks...may be the single coolest feature of the boat...even with skis in the racks there is floor space to spare and I like a tidy boat. I'd like a smidge less rudder, and the big motor...then I'm sold completely.

[santangelo]

I've driven the 14' MC in two different tournaments. It was the same boat. One time it drove great and the other not so good. I learned there was weight in the very front of the boat on the time it didn't drive well. It tended to get chine locked. Couple that with a light to medium rudder and I simply couldn't get the boat to respond quickly enough to keep it straight or establish any sort of rhythm so you may want to play with weight distribution as well as rudder torque.

 

Really nice boat though. As fun to ski as it is to drive when set up well.

[gregy]

I skied behind @ShaneH‌ boat Friday. The driver pulled me up a little faster than I was comfortable with, I'm 185lb. I set in the boat with KC Wilson skiing and I didn't feel the boat being pulled around. I'll say this though, I skied two sets behind the a 200 then behind the prostar and both ski incredible, I can't see how anyone would argue about the wakes, they're both awesome.

[LeonL]

As to weight, the first boat had only 50 lbs. just to balance me and the boat judge. Boat two had 50 lbs in the nose and fifty on the pass side with a boat judge that weighs the same as me, if not a bit more. If any thing boat was worse. I forgot to mention the weight in the initial post. @santangelo, same feel as you, couldn't get quick enough response.

[webbdawg99]

@LeonL, your post perfectly reflects my thoughts on the new ProStar. I had to apologize to @OB this weekend for one of those missed 35's. I'm usually able to adapt to an unfamiliar boat pretty rapidly......but the ProStar left me baffled.

 

I commented to one of the senior drivers about my experience. He later drove the boat and felt the same way I did.

[Razorskier1]

I believe the boat is tracking better than you think it is by feel. The pylon isn't moving much. The boat does feel like it pivots more on the pylon than some others but small counters will prove effective.

[Chad_Scott]

Have skied and driven all of the boats. The new MC is a huge improvement to the previous model. My guess is they will still be working on the drive ability of the boat. Although it does not track like some of the other boats it is relatively easy to keep in the middle. My guess is those that feel it's very tough to drive are probably feeling some of the movement with he hull more of a roll than actually moving. The pylon is high and causes the boat to roll. I learned pretty quickly that it is best to not over steer the boat it may feel as though it requires more driver input but I found it was best to not work the wheel as much. The boat wants to go straight. On a positive note. It is a much better boat than the last years. The cockpit and the amount of room is very nice

[skiboat38]

I drove the same boat this weekend and didn't think it was all that bad as the feedback I heard from drivers last week. It does have a lot of torque on the rudder and the owner has worked on it three times. I did have a problem with my first 36 mph skier that was my fault as I over estimated the power and under drove the boat around the turn island barely making 36 mph before the gates. The boat is very loud inside and the torque is a pain, however I pulled some very strong skiers and had zero problems setting it right down the middle and giving the skiers a good pull. The boat does have the same old Mastercraft handling feel and the windshield sucks as the rope hits you in the back of the neck when the skier pulls out. Overall my opinion is it is a much better product than before and has an awesome wake but it has a long way to go. There is so much marketing goes on these websites. I spent many hours this week in all of the big 4 boats and they all have their good and bad points. Before making decisions on a boat it is best to get all 4 on the same lake and drive them pulling different levels of skiers.....there is one that is far above the rest but they all when set up correctly can get the job done.

[webbdawg99]

@Chad_Scott your comment about pylon height and roll makes a lot of sense. As I said before, the boat left me baffled. It seems that what the driver perceives the boat to be doing and what it's actually doing aren't the same...which leads to the frustration that I experienced this weekend. Thanks for the insight.

[LeonL]

@Chad_Scott‌, it's good to hear from someone like you about the PS. Good advice, but the video didn't lie. I was flat embarrassed. But you're right about the room and other nice features.

[Chad_Scott]

No the video won't lie. I drove it this weekend. I kept is straight but don't think it was my best days work on the wheel. MC did a great job making excellent wakes by lifting the boat up and out of the water. With a little seat time good drivers will figure it out I really found that less was more. Not to over react in the boat. By the end of a couple rounds it was getting better. This is the first shot at this boat. With anything new they will tweak and make some subtle changes to make it better. Great drivers like Chris Eller Will Bush and Greg Badal will continue to provide input and you can bet they will keep tweaking At least now skiers don't mind seeing it pull up at the dock drivers like myself will just need a little seat time in it to get comfortable.

[robscholl-OF]

Wow I read this thread and wonder if I am driving the same boat. I have driven all the big 4 boats in tournaments pulling different classes and I think @richarddoane‌ 2014 MC is one of the best driving boats on the lake. He has done nothing to it other than put gas in it. I say this as a guy that has been pretty critical of the MC in the past few years and am a Malibu guy.....OF

[ozski]

I've heard negative comments about how loud it is?

[DanE]

Some people bash and others praise driveability of the new PS, wtf?

Is there a consistency problem in manufacturing, factory setup or what?

[rq0013]

I think the boat is louder than our 08 197. We were thinking its coming from the gap between the motor box and floor, because the boat I was in didnt have carpet. Carpet might help what we heard.

[ForrestGump]

You stay ahead of the pass by under driving it. If you start sawing on the wheel, it will respond and send you boat guide to boat guide.

 

It's not THAT loud. It's more resonant. Easily quieter than our 200. You feel more of the resonance and vibration, though, due to it having less interior trim.

[LeonL]

@DanE, I sure didn't want to come off as bashing. Just presenting my observations as honestly as possible and actually trying use some level of tact. (Some might say I'm never tactful). Input like this, I would hope, will be used constructively. Whether by advise such as from @Chad_Scott‌ or @ShaneH‌, or suggestions on weighting and rudder adjustments, or even factory changes. I really desire ALL boat brands to provide the best possible driving and skiing experience as possible. Some folks are hesitant to start such a thread, but after seeing it, are willing to provide comments. Bashing was not my intent, but to provoke additional comments to see if there is a universal situation or aberrations. By the way, next weekend presents another opportunity with yet a third PS. That's if I'm scheduled to get seat time in it. There will be SN, CP and PS on site, so maybe or maybe no PS seat time .

[schroed]

I rode in the 14 for the first time as a boat judge this weekend. I didn't notice it being loud, but this boat did have carpet in it. Greg Badal was driving it at the time and he was keeping the boat very straight (there was a deviation meter in the boat so I could tell how straight it was) while at the same time giving the skiers great rides. One 34 mph skier even said if felt like 32 mph. So, he clearly was having no trouble keeping the boat well within record tolerance and giving the skiers a great feel.

 

Later in the day I skied behind one of my favorite drivers who was driving the 14 MC for the first time. I asked him how the boat was and he said "you're lucky you're not the first one I pulled, but I've got it figured out now". He then proceeded to pull me within 1 buoy of my PB, so I think he was telling the truth. He later told me that the boat had a bit different feel to it than the older MCs or other boats out there. He also said that he hoped more drivers would get time behind it because he thought that people would need to get used to it before they'd be able to give people great pulls.

 

So my opinion is that the new 14 skis great but takes a bit of practice driving to get used to.

[ForrestGump]

@leonl My perception after spending some time behind the wheel is that you want to be cognizant of where the skier is and when they're at the apex, pressure slightly away. Which is the way Chad always told me to drive from Day 1, anyway. It took me a couple of skiers to get the rhythm and figure out how much or how little I needed to be moving the wheel. The less movement, the better the path was. I feel that if you wait to counter when you feel the skier behind the buoy coming back in, it's going to be too late and you're going to end up giving the tail of the boat to the skier and/or being pulled to the skier as they come at the first wake. A 200 you can get away with that thanks to the keel vee. It's just a different rhythm you need for the PS. I think the boat drives better than it's predecessor. It's just different. Drivers are going to have to get behind the wheel in practice and get used to it. And there will be some who won't.

 

3 skiers this weekend had me verify the speed after their first pass. They all said it felt slow. It wasn't. I think the way the boat is propped puts it in the sweet spot where the ZO doesn't need as much swing in speed. I'll have to pay more attention to that as we use the boat more.

 

What I found interesting is it's dependence on weighting for a level ride. Even with 1 passenger, you almost need additional passenger side weight for a level ride. Even without, the skier didn't notice a difference in the wake. Just the driver.

[Razorskier1]

Agree with @ShaneH. The less input the better. As Chad points out the boat sometimes feels like it is moving more than it really is. The boat tracks mighty straight, but is high on the water and can feel like you are moving more than you are. Very small pressure away is all that it takes to drive a really solid path for your skier. I think the difficulty for me to start with was that I felt like it was moving and was over-steering. Less is more. Slight pressure and rhythm with the skier is all it takes.

[RichardDoane]

@leonl - there's no substitute for either end course video, or just having someone with a radio watching from the end of the lake, every boat does take some getting used to, resist the urge to over-correct and your path will be straighter, @ob - you should be able to run -35 even with a marginal boat path, stop blaming the driver and start skiing better !

[Jody_Seal]

I See OB on the Lake 38 running order. He will get another shot at a new 14 PS. Ha Ha so will I!

[Razorskier1]

@Jody_Seal -- interested in your impressions. And don't worry about @OB, he can run his PB regardless of boat path!

[E_T]

Y'all complain about a little hard to drive. Try hand driving a older boat. Y'all a bunch of little crying girls. Grow up and just ski

[skier2788]

@E_T‌ I was invited to ski with a guy at his lake last weekend. I showed up to a 79 stars and stripes mastercraft. I have nothing bad to say about the 2014. Boats have come a long way.

[jhughes]

@E_T true about the older boats. My 83 MC tracks like a rowboat and holds speed about as well too. Pulling a remotely skilled slalom skier on it is a comical exercise. I can't believe people hand-drove these at such tight tolerances, it's truly incredible.

[swc5150]

Jack Walker is shaking his head from above at us!

[Jody_Seal]

A few years back a few days before the Masters on Robin Lake Art Cozier had the 61 out and asked a few of us if we wanted to ski behind it. I jumped at the offer as did a couple other of crew. Art drove 34 MPH 16.95-17.00 nearly every pass By hand. The little boat did what it was designed to do...... However I thought the pylon might come out of the boat but Art assured me it was the nature of the beast! Boat tract reasonable however 35 off was as short as anyone got.

I hope to drive the latest production of the PS this weekend, at least will get in as a judge as I am the Chief Judge.

[gginco]

@Jody_Seal‌ Here in Colorado, we're loving the 200 we bought from you a few months! It obviously was one of yours as it tracks like a laser! Curious if you happen to know who signed the glove box cover? It's mostly rubbed off so we're not quite sure.

[Jody_Seal]

@gginco Chris Parrish matched his at the time world record with that boat in 2012 ! CP!

[MarcusBrown]

The ProStar is new. Sometimes new = different.

 

Sounds like some people aren't able to adjust. I've driven quite a few new ProStars through the course, and I have to say its probably the best driving boat I've ever felt. Lot of folks worked together to get this thing performing (at the helm) like it does.

 

Is it different? Yes.

 

If you really have a problem driving it, email me, message me, call me, and come to California....I can help get you up to speed.

 

And while you're out here, I'll sit in the boat and help you move better on your ski.

[Razorskier1]

I think the boat drives great! I was in a 2005 197TT before. My wife has been my primary driver for years. The first couple of days in the new PS she was not quite on her game -- it felt different. Since then she's nailed it. First time I tried 38 behind her I ran 5 and should have run it except I couldn't believe how easy it felt. Skied away from 5 but didn't have angle (my bad). I think you are going to hear a lot of skiers saying it is the softest and best feeling ZO pull they have ever felt as this year goes on.

[rq0013]

Yes the pull feels awesome. I set a pb behind it my third day and matched it the next day. It will be a 14 prostar or a txi for me.

[gginco]

@Jody_Seal‌ Thanks for the pic! That's awesome!

[Drago]

I drove the promo in Colorado at a jr development clinic ( thank you MC/ Jeff Thomas/Denver Ski Club for supporting jr skiing!). It felt like the tracking fins were further back= the front points a bit more and the tails wags less. Just confirmed that today with MB. So.... I simply blocked a little bit sooner, then you can let the skier establish their load and get the synchronicity going. Felt great. Just pay attention ;) Also, owner asked my 12 year old how it felt: he said ,"I didn't notice". Seems like a perfect answer.

Great ergonomics. Haven't been that comfortable in tournament mode ever.

A responsible driver pulls practice. Talk to the owner, get it out there, and embrace it. It works. It's really good.

[Bulldog]

What other sport would you have a person (@marcusbrown) that actually designed the product come to a forum and actually respond and explain how / why it works??? Thank you John for this community that allows for dialog like this. When $$$ allows the new prostar would be my choice and I have been a Malibu guy my whole life. This boat is incredible and will change the waterski industry.

[TFIN]

The way I assess the ProStar is maximum 'skier input' while still being locked into the center of the course. You can really feel where the skier is in the course and need to be careful not to overcompensate. This boat is your path of least resistance to better driving.

TF

[ToddL]

Tonight, I got to ski and drive the 14 ProStar for the first time. I had already skimmed this thread so I kind of knew what to expect.

 

Skiing - well, I exceeded my season PB off the dock and got a little further later in the set. Everything seemed, well slower and easier. It is a supportive type of firm pull vs. one that seems to punish the skier. What wakes? Great skiing boat for slalom.

 

Driving - I think it has been said well by others like @ShaneH and @TFIN. The boat tracks very well and requires minimal adjustment on the wheel. Seriously, very subtle steering is all it takes to keep in sync with the skier. Also, you really do feel the skier. I was able to comment to the observer about the skiers' mistakes without ever moving my gaze from the path to the mirror. I just could feel what was going on at the other end of the rope.

 

Controls - excellent! Two touches of the screen max to change anything.

 

Visibility from driver's seat - unbelievable. You can see the nose of the boat so easily and clearly that you think you could reach out and touch it. Plus the nose is lower so you can see directly in front of the boat while docking, etc. The seat seems to sit a little higher so you can really keep an eye on the skier as you circle them for a pick up.

 

Noise - I really didn't get a sense that it was significantly louder. Maybe a touch, but more resonant is how I'd describe it.

 

I asked the (new) owner, if he'd discovered all the little cool things designed into the boat. He said that everyday, he finds something new that was a well thought out idea for simplicity or convenience.

 

It just seems that this one took everything to the next level. I can't wait to ski/drive it again. Thanks @MarcusBrown and anyone else who had a hand in this boat's design!

[JohnN]

I had a chance to drive the new PS this week as well, and agree with @ToddL and @Drago - the boat tracked well, but it did have a different feel from past boats. Very good, just a little different. Loved the new dash (or lack of it) and especially the ZO display. No longer does it take an advanced degree to find all the necessary settings! Bow rise was minimal and visibility was outstanding, and I loved the machined aluminum bits and pieces. Getting the plug out from under the engine is a nice touch, and little things like being able to comfortably point the kids out to the side were noticeable. From watching kids at 15mph to 36mph/28 off, the wake seemed very flat and friendly to them. Comfortable and adjustable driver's seat for spending a long shift. A great boat, as always well sorted and dialed in (Thanks Jeff Thomas).

 

The only suggestion I would have on the boat is to alter the throttle by wire map to get full throttle sooner. At 36mph, full throttle seemed to only get part throttle at the engine for several seconds, then the engine would open up and occasionally was still accelerating when the skier was pulling out. I felt like there was plenty of power, but the electronics were holding it back.

 

Looking forward to skiing behind it this weekend!

 

[E_T]

@ob the easy fix is ditch the CPU and put a 750 holly on it!!

[Razorskier1]

@OB -- I tried the 3 blade and didn't find it appreciably different. I have a line on a non-approved Acme 3 blade that another owner is using that sounds like it might be the ticket. I think MC may need to revisit approved props. Also agree that the throttle position sensor may be not quite right.

[gregy]

Mastercraft should be able to adjust the Program for a faster acceleration ramp.

[racerdjs]

Mine pulls fantastic on the course. Please read my counter steering adjustment thread. I moved the steering linkage towards the rudder center (there are 2 available holes predrilled and threaded) and it now takes less effort and drives similar to my old 2011 Nautique 200.

[kurt]

I have just over 30 hours on mine now ,all in the course. The more I drive it the more you realize you need far less steering input then you think (less is better) , I think it tracks great and @tfin said it best

[racerdjs]

Looking forward to getting some hours on it.

[GAJ0004]

The new Pro Star slaloms great. If anyone says they feel a bump behind it they need their head examined.. Trick skiing behind it the table is smooth no prop turbulence, but the wake is very small, but I need more time behind it to find the right combination of speed and rope length to find the sweet spot.

[Chuck_Dickey]

I have 61 hours on my new ProStar 5.7L Promo boat and everyone raves about how well it pulls, drives and skis! Best boat I have ever owned, skied or driven. Thanks MasterCraft, Marcus Brown, Will Bush !

 

Anyone wanting to test it out can message me. My boat is in Newberry Springs, CA. on Cheyenne Lake.