Looking for an older boat

[scorban2]

@BraceMaker which of the two do you get wet more often?

[dave2ball]

91-94 MC Prostars are great skiing boats. Great wake through most to all line lengths. As you go shorter 32 or shorter you may have a spray issue. If you can find one with an LT1 with a power slot that is the best power plant combo in that era.

 

[Kwoody51]

I had a '95 PS 205 and the wake on it was amazing, hardly noticeable! As others have mentioned the 205 lagged the 190 by a year for hull changes. So a '95 205 will have the same hull as the '94 190.

 

205 can be a bit pricey though, I've rarely seen a 94+ 205 that didn't need major work (like interior) for less than $12k - I'm in MN but have been watching national listings for over a year. 190's seem to fall in your budget as the closed bow limits them from being a choice for traditional boaters vs slalom purest.

[foxriverat]

Here's a 93 190 in SW MI $10000

[foxriverat]

Sorry about long link. Couldn't get shorter to work on my phone fixed

[scorban2]

@foxriverat That's one of the main ones I've got my eyes on.

 

I also found another one on SIA yesterday (though a bit far of a drive) that tweaked my interest. One concern is that it's got one of the wakeboard poles on it that's attached/replaced the pylon. Should I be concerned about damage done to the pylon/mount from having one of these on the boat?

[dabeej20]

I have a 92 205 with 750 hours that I might be willing to part ways with. pm me if you would like more details. Located in Central Indiana

[swc5150]

@scorban2 That's a clean '92, and I wouldn't worry much about the extended pylon. I'd just check the pylon U bolts, to make sure they're tight. You'd also know if the pylon was loose of course.

[bananaron]

I picked up a 2001 196 in may I think the wakes are marginal at best.I sold my 2001 Gekko GTR and was probably in love with those wakes and it was hard to adjust.If you have young skiers the wakes on the older 196 are big.That 92 190 looks really nice and I have heard those are great boats.Ck out the Gekko GTR on Mpls.craigslist for 14,000 not sure you want to spend that much however if he wants to sell now you should be able to buy it for less.Great boat with the best wake out there.I just picked up a 2001 MC Prostar 190 and am enjoying the quality and pull.Good luck........

[Jody_Seal]

A fella just dropped off a what could be nice 95 SN with a Proski 305/5.0. Wants to sell but I am afraid he is buried in it by the bank. $9000 buy's it. will be more then glad to provide more info as requested.

[foxriverat]

Seems like all the decent priced Nautiques are in Florida Clermont Orlando

[6balls]

@bananaron what do you want for your 2001 196 (and other details) I know someone looking hard in MN if you don't like it. it may be speed and rope length for the critique of wake...as one who opens at 28 off and a friend who opens at 22...we prefer the SN 196 hands down to the Gekko.

For barefooting...gimme the Gekko wake over SN. Slower speeds longer lines I dunno. Serious about the family wanting a 196 of that genre, however, if you want to unload.

[bananaron]

@6balls My neighbor has the boat.I have skied it at all line lengths and I ski at 36 and do not like it.He has younger kids and at slower speeds the wake and spray is big.I love the wakes on the Gekko at all speeds and line lengths.The kids skied the Gekko last summer and prefer it over the 196.Have your friend contact me I think there is a 196 for sale in Nisswa if not I can find him one.............Ron 218-851-2801

[Wish]

@bananaron do you mean the yr 2001 196 or the SN 2001 from the 80s. I cannot imaging a yr 2001 having nothing but wakes that match current tugs. And if it does, something is not right. Gekko is ok...very small wakes but firm.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I've skied the TSC1 and TSC2 hulls many times at 15 off and 28-34mph. I find the wakes similar to my '97 MC 190 up until 34mph where the SNs are definitely softer. Surprised to hear anyone complain about the TSC wakes.

[escmanaze]

Here is a video of me at 30 mph and 15 off in a 97 TSC1 bubble butt. 99 things to complain about in videos of me skiing, but a wake ain't one. At least that's how I see the world anyway.

 

[escmanaze]

Here is a full 75 foot rope at 26 mph. It's a bit bigger, but still pretty darn good.

 

 

I certainly wouldn't pass up on a TSC hull for the sake of the wake being not good enough.

[6balls]

ski-it-again recent listing of a 2002 MC 19 skier with 310 EFI predator and pretty low hours, PP speed control, tower, looks to be in nice shape. If I remember right ballers is that the '91-94 hull?

[MISkier]

@6balls, the Skier 19 is the 95-97 hull. That is a great hull, less spray than the 91-94. You can also find it in the 195 and the SportStar.

[6balls]

@MIskier then sounds like a great bargain boat on ski-it-again....a 2002 with low hours asking 16.5K I think it was.

[scorban2]

I've come across a few of the 95-97 190's with asking prices that are not much more (some less) than some of the 94 PS 190's with EFI I've seen, and it looks like they are noticeably bigger inside. Seems like the consensus is the wake may not be quite as good at the 94, but still very good. Is the difference in interior room noticeable?

[hockeyref74]

My 2003 MBsport190 has same hull as 94 MC great boat best built boat on the market so don't over look them

[skiboyny]

95-97 PS-190 skis really well! The only knock is at 22 off where the wake is hard. 15 off is really very nice along with 28 and beyond.

[MISkier]

The wakes on the 95-97 are more firm, but they are low. Even the 22 off is among the best. I can name several boats newer than that with a much worse 22 off wake. I would take the 95-97 all day long.

[shansen345]

1991-1994 MC ProStar 190. All the 1994s have EFI, so look for one of those.

[Cent]

I owned a 94 and a 95 MC. There is more room in the 95. Just a general sense the interior is larger/ wider is how I would describe it. Also less spray in 95. Wake a bit firmer in 95 is my recollection.

[scorban2]

@MISkier When I looked through all the replies again I saw the link to the 97 Response you posted and also came across another 97 Response yesterday. That's pretty much the same boat hull/shape wise (SV23) as the earlier Echelon's correct? Other than EFI, wake and tracking should be similar, right?

 

Is the long line bump on those boats better/worse than the 95-97 190s? Chatted with an old coworker that's got a 96 MC he barefoots with, and he's going to give me a pull to try that out.

[MISkier]

I believe you are correct and the 1997 Response has the SV23 hull. I can't comment on any similarity or difference to the Echelon. The wake should be low, but firm. I would think it would be quite comparable to the 95-97 MC. Probably very, very close.

 

Let us know how that test ride with the 96 MC goes.

[DW]

@scorban2 : the Echelon > Response characteristics will be very close, the SV23 hull got some changes over time. Yes, the hulls on the Echelon and Response are actually the same (depending on year), it is the top deck that is different along with interior trim. The Malibu Crew website has the documentation for that.

[MDB1056]

Any tournament boat is not going to do well in chop so from my chair thats a non issue as that's where driver experince in getting through it comes in. Look at older tournament boats for how they perform for what you want, not the occassional chop. Im a HUGE MC fan and woudl encourage that direction for a few reasons, and would also encourage you to look at earlier years as well. My daughter purchased a 1990 prostar190 that we've been using a lot for the past year and it's a FABULOUS boat that in a course can perform as well or better than most new ones. Great wake for slalom at all shortline levels, very well made, Ford 351 is bulletproof, and the boat will last forever. My uinderstanding is that the 88-92 hulls I think were the same, with a change in 93. So I'd loook at Prostar 190's 88-94 if I were you. There are some screaming deals out there. The one my daughter found I told her if she didn't buy it I was going to. Great boat, original dual axle trailer, 550 hours, $6K. It was dirty as owner had been ill and it hadn't been cleaned up but it was very sound mechanically and cleaned up great! My 2 cents

[MDB1056]

@thager notes the 91-94 Hydrodyne as great boats. They are built well but as a 92 Comp owner I would caution they have wood floors & stringers. I'm just finishing up a replacement of my flooring and two outboard stringers and it's a HUGE job. My boat will be better than new when finished as everything is now epoxy resin sealed and completely waterproof. Leaky heater over time was the main culprit, so I do not recommend heaters s the cores can leak just like in a car, except in your boat it's much less detectable. Other than that great boats agreed and drive like a dream.

[Cent]

Regarding MC hills 88 to 94 are not the same. 91-94 are generally the same.

I much prefer a 90 over an 88. Engine placement was also modified in different years around 88. I owned and used an 88, 90, 91, and 94.

[dabeej20]

https://goo.gl/kqNBjm

 

Here is my 92 prostar link

[scorban2]

I've been doing some more research and have a few more questions for the group:

1) Carb'd boats have never scared me in my search, and I've been around them my whole life. However, a friend mentioned that he'd go EFI so that the acceleration is smoother, making it easier to teach new skiers. We've really never had that issue with our I/O's, so I was wondering if any of you guys fought that with carb'd boats?

 

2) I've considered a few Malibu's as well, and only personally have experience with a 02 SS LXI. The one thing that sticks in my mind about that boat is how loud it was riding in the boat (you'd have to yell from drivers seat to back seat). I've been in MC's and Nautiques from the era, both of which were nice and quiet. Is that pretty typical of the late 90s/early 00's Malibus?

 

While I haven't got to ski on the 96 MC yet (just getting over a sinus infection), I did get a chance to experience a TSC1 Nautique thanks to @Skoot1123, which I enjoyed. Should hit the MC by the weekend.

[UWSkier]

@scorban2 the Malibus from that era had optional mufflers. If they weren't ordered, it's straight tubes right off the manifold risers out the back. There are a number of things you can do to quiet them down for not much money. Should be able to install some slip-in stainless silencers and insulate the motor box for around $350 which would have it sounding pretty nice and quiet. For even more quiet, Malibu offers down-turned exhaust tips, which work well also.

 

While I like V8 rumble, I like it muffled somewhat. Ski partner of mine has an '08 TT, which is known to be loud. He put in fiberglass mufflers and it sounds fantastic without waking the neighbors.

[Chef23]

Regarding noise I have an 02 Response LX and it is not loud. I regularly drive 09 196s and a 2007 LXI and my boat is no loader than those. My boat is actually much quieter than my friends 2016 Prostar due to a fan on the Prostar.

 

 

[Intheday]

2001 Malibu response is quite, has good factory muffler. Love it nice to drive, comfortable only complaint would be low speed/idle steering.

[6balls]

Friend had a 2000 Response Lx and now a 2015 Txi. Never really noticed all that much from the boat in terms of noise but when he'd pull away from my dock the Lxi barked and the Txi is quiet. The Lx made a lot more transmission noise in reverse, too. A friend has a carbed Malibu Sportster from that era and she's very loud. The '08 MC mentioned above was really loud, too, like they cut corners that year and went un-muffled.

 

As for carb I'd get EFI if I could, but I don't think of it in terms of acceleration on a well tuned boat...just cold start up is tougher and need to let it warm up just a bit before first use each time.

 

[wski1831]

I have 91 Mastercraft. It is carberated, 1700 hours, I changed the carb on it about three years ago, runs like a top. The only negative of the carb is that it needs to warm up before backing off trailer as opposed to fuel injected ready to go. I like simple and dependable, the carb has been that for me.

[Shell]

92 Ski Nautique, awesome boat, mint condition, all original, added stereo and amp, Perfect Pass w/magnet timer . Runs perfect.990 hrs

 

[DW]

@scorban2 :

1. A properly tuned carb is smooth, no issue on acceleration smoothness.

2. As for exhaust noise, that all depends on the muffler system used, the standard Malibu inline exhaust silencers with straight tips can be somewhat noisy, if equipped with a silent rider muffler will be very quiet (as will anything equipped that way). Note that cabin noise and exhaust noise are two different animals, and quieted in different ways (insulation v. mufflers).

[BraceMaker]

@wski1831 - not to mention the MC facebook group and Owners forum have a member who's essentially the Guru of these carbs so when they go bad its an easy fix. Biggest thing is if you go to an older carbed boat you may need to convert the ignition to use perfect pass.

[scorban2]

@BraceMaker - Are you talking about an upgrade to electronic ignition over points? Didn't see anything about that on PP's website, but that's not an issue

 

@MISkier - I got a chance to ski the 96 PS last Friday. At ~32 mph and 15 and 22 off, the wake was quite a bit bigger than I expected (and bigger than the TSC1). He mentioned that his exhaust and shaft seal leak a bit, and there was some water under the battery when I hooked up the cables, so I'm wondering if there was a decent amount of water in the bottom of the boat. Is the battery compartment sealed from the bottom, or would that be indicative of water in the boat? I never opened the engine compartment to look (kicking myself now).

[BraceMaker]

@scorban2 - yes PP with the points set up is too much noise. By the time you get to 90's boats it should be fine.

[MISkier]

@scorban2, that seems surprising and the theory of extra water/weight is plausible. I know that, when we suspect a boat's acceleration or wake are not up to par, the first thing we do is run the bilge.

 

Seems odd that there was water in the battery compartment. It does make me wonder how much was under the floorboards. Always lift the motor box and look for water, spraying fluids, engine leaks, etc.

[BraceMaker]

nah the battery boxes have water in them because they don't have a drain hole - that keeps acid from running down into the bilge if the battery leaks.

 

If you want to keep the battery box dry or if you want to convert it into a cooler people will install a drain hole - and buy a battery box to contain your battery itself. Works well.

[scorban2]

The lack of hole in the battery box is what I was wondering about. It had been on a lift for a while, so I didn't think it would have been too bad. I wasn't looking at buying it (just a friends boat) so I didn't snoop around a whole lot. When it just sat in the water with no one in the boat, the swim platform was ~1-2" above the water, so I don't think it was that bad.

 

It also alarmed me how much it shook when we took off. He said his kids have hit a few things in the lake and the prop is a bit dinged up. I've read that can affect wake, but figured those effects to be relatively minor.

[BraceMaker]

Ya - if you want to buy one that vibrates DEFINITELY check out the underwater gear more than just accept that. For instance I would bother to bring a dial indicator and check for run out by the prop and between the strut and the engine. And if possible I would lift the rear floor and separate the shaft coupling. If there's minor run out and the coupling is close no big deal - but if the thing pops apart and has huge alignment issues or if you measure a big wobble you're buying atleast a prop and shaft - and if that doesn't do it you're doing a strut.

[scorban2]

Pretty much decided on the 91-94 MC unless I can get a tsc1 for only a bit more. Found a tsc1 nautique with 1400 hrs. Treated well, is there any issues buying a boat with that many hours? I was shooting for 1000 or less hours, but may be interested if the price is right.

[Beastmode]

I have both for sale - 93 malibu Euro and a 94 MC PS with PP asking $7500 for each. Both run great and solid hulls, just need some Upholstery work, but not real bad. I have run 35' off many times at 34 mph with the Mastercraft