Perfect Pass 3 event version 9

[alex38]

Like @Windsurfnut asks, maybe if we knew what was happening with each adjustment (like a ski?) we could dial quicker. Albeit, if someone had just told me about the current background settings I have right now I would be set.

[skiboyny]

@BraceMaker I thought that perfect pass sold the rights to the drive by wire to ZO. I didn't know there was a time stipulation based on patents. Do you have more info on this?

[Killer]

I have an 01 SN gt40. Zbox 9.1.

 

my settings are:

Kx +

Zbox 08

Crew weight 250 with a spotter or without.

 

Ball 1, 3, exit is:

08 50 35

 

On A1 I am getting 16.95 +/- .01 with perfect gate and 1ball speed. On C1 I get slower times by .02-03, hot 1 ball and overall poorer feel.

 

I think I'm dialed in now.

[BraceMaker]

@skiboyny - I didn't mean to imply that I had direct personal knowledge of the internal workings of the PP/ZO agreement.

 

However patents of the nature that protect goods such as ZO holds for its technology are only good for 20 years from the priority date on the application which originally was 2004 for ZO. So the question becomes did PP enter into something that is legally binding perpetually or is it an agreement based on the enforceability of their patent against infringement.

 

If it is perpetually binding then when the patent expires a third party could enter into the space and compete with ZO using DBW systems - perhaps even a company like Mercury Marine which has a speed control product and also is still selling inboard drivetrains - maybe a company like Malibu might want to distance themselves from PCM at the same time as distancing themselves from ZO and could get a 2nd speed control option into the market.

 

If its not - I think PP has done a pretty good job of making updates - I for one agree fully that what is missing in speed control is a user calibration mode where you could push the button and have it "relearn" the engine and responsiveness such as swap in a new prop or go to a different elevation you could let the system relearn how to react to the skier.

 

 

[Tom351]

From the Zero Off website FAQ:

In May of 2008, Zero Off & Perfect Pass signed an agreement that states:

 

1) Perfect Pass will not offer drive-by-wire systems to boat OEMs beginning 2009 boat model year.

2) Perfect Pass will not offer retrofit systems for 2009 model year for drive by wire applications.

3) Perfect Pass is licensed to sell Star Gazer to its existing customer base until the beginning of 2009 boat model year.

4) Zero Off will not retrofit mechanically/servo driven applications.

 

So it sounds more like a "treaty" than a patent issue, the big question is obviously if there is any end-date to the agreement.

[Keith_Menard]

The issue I am having is my 34mph is bang on...32 is fast. I have thought about setting up 32 N and 34L so I can adjust them both.

[GAJ0004]

I have the surge problem solved. I am still trying to tighten up the buoy times.

[GAJ0004]

At the moment my settings for 34 normal are 45 25 and 31.

 

[skiboyny]

@GAJ0004 wow! Does that 45 give you a good 2 ball? Are you sure your baselines are right? What does your overall time look like with those settings? Generally lowering the 3 ball number as you have done will stop the surge.

[GAJ0004]

Overall times are have been between 17.02-16.98.

 

[Windsurfnut]

I find it very interesting(odd) the deviation in Ball 1 and Ball 3 adjustments from stock settings that is being reported to fix the surge. Seems like with the stock settings at 34mph N for example are low at ball 1 and so high at ball 3 that the surge was built right from stock.

I wonder if the stock settings are more directed to older carb boats with lower HP and perhaps longer throttle reaction times or even larger heavier boats that require such an agressive change to get good times? I would think that a boat like a SN 196 with GT40 is a relatively light boat with relatively high HP that is pretty reactive to throttle input, has a decent HP : Weight ratio and therefore surges with such agressive settings?

 

[Deanoski]

I feel lucky have z box in a 1990 SN 351 all we did was set it at kX plus put 180 lbs crew weight in and ball times are always within 01-02 go enough for me I don't even notice any difference when skiing behind my buddy's SN 200. it made a old boat ski like a new boat

 

 

 

[gpcarson]

Anybody use Z-box for jump and how do you like it?

[Keith_Menard]

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith_Menard]

.

[skiboyny]

Second screen looks nice. You have to look for common recurrences before deciding to do anything.

[Windsurfnut]

Second screen looks awesome

[GAJ0004]

 

 

[GAJ0004]

Almost have it.

[skiboyny]

Thats real close. Make sure to feather up to speed on the way to the 55s. First I'd go up to 45 on the one ball background. If that doesn't work out, I would try reducing crew weight or skier weight or both. If that's not enough take 10rpm at a time off baselines. I feel like you need to get the boat under control at zero ball and the rest might fall into place. Are you using z-box?

[Windsurfnut]

@GAJ0004 what boat/motor? Ball 1 @ 40 seems awfully high from stock. I can't get over the deviation from stock that some members are posting.

[GAJ0004]

@Windsurfnut, it is a 1994 Ski Nautique with the 240HP 351Ford carbureted with the 1:1 tranny. I had to turn the ball 3 setting way down to stop the surge from 2-3 ball. The 2008 version of Perfect Pass Stargazer which used the paddle wheel and the magnets along with the GPS. I had perfect times almost every time unless it was adverse conditions, then one day the master module blew up after 9 seasons when a safety switch went out. I had to replace the master module. I turned the ball one setting up to level out the ball 2-3 times.

[GAJ0004]

The lower powered boats need to be set to have more throttle response at the gate and ball one since that is the hardest pull from the skier. I was testing it one day and I could tell the boat was slowing down when the skier went from gate to ball one. I turned up the settings to stop it. It is less of an issue on higher powered since they have more torque to resist the pull of the skier.

 

[Windsurfnut]

I thought kx+ or ++ would fix/help that

[GAJ0004]

@skiboyny I don't have zbox yet.. I want to get this working first.

 

[skiboyny]

@GAJ0004 that’s a good move. I only recently installed and my stargazer was pretty close. I will tell you this z box will tighten up the times the last little bit. My 34 times were 1697 or 1698 most of the time with stargazer add z box 1695 on the money. @Windsurfnut Increasing kx would be a good move for that boat.

[georgea0731]

Found this chart and some guidance from PP. I just thought I'd share and hope it can help someone.

 

[georgea0731]

Keith, what do you have your PP screen display set on? Mine is more of a yellow backing and is harder to read.

 

[Keith_Menard]

@georgea0731 I have never touched that part of it, sorry :(

[Killer]

@georgea0731 I believe newer displays did away of the yellow hue. How old is yours?

 

You can change contrast and brightness in the settings as you may already know.

[GAJ0004]

I have been running on the same settings for a while. I am not getting the + or _ .01 on each buoy ,but I am still within tolerance. I have been running it at kx +. I am getting full course times of 16.98-16.99 most of the time.

[GAJ0004]

@"Keith Menard" I think you have yours dialed in pretty good. It looks like it is in the quarter mile per hour tolerance..

 

[Keith_Menard]

@GAJ0004 It is...but my ski buddy has his within .01 every time on 32 and 34...wondering if I should keep dialing

[GAJ0004]

 

[GAJ0004]

 

These are numbers I tried this past weekend and I had the Kx set to ++

 

 

[GAJ0004]

 

I ran a pass at 22off, 28off, and 32 off. I sent the numbers to perfect pass. I think this is as close as I can get it.

 

[skiboyny]

What happens when you drop the ball 3 background setting further? Maybe 15

[GAJ0004]

@skiboyny I have not tried it yet.

 

[GAJ0004]

I won't need to do anything on the lighter settings. The problem only occurs when my boat is under load. I may have to adjust the X and 36 MPH settings. No problem pulling skiers smaller than my brother and I.

[nam1975]

I’ve heard to use light or feather setting to help this as well. I did on my boat and it helped, at least the 1st sets a few days ago.

[skiboyny]

It does "help" but if you look at the ball times ball 1 (which is actually ball 2) is usually hot still. Kind of a tough thing for a lff skier.

[kylegansel]

Most of the boats on our lake with PP are simple. Put the throttle down and call it a day. My 05 Response I have (Installed PP in 2015 when I bought it) doesn't like to go way past the set speed otherwise it surges like hell. I never played with the settings much but if I get the skier up and throttle up to the speed it works just fine and maintains speed pretty well. Maybe I should play with the crew size settings a bit or something but I've got it figured out at least I think.

[Windsurfnut]

@kylegansel Interesting that most of your boats were plug and play. When ours was just Stargazer Wake S, it was quite consistent as well (perhaps not accurate). Adding 3 event and ZBOX and our 2-3 ball surge was noticeable as a skier and as a driver, and the course was difficult to ski. Returning to CLASSIC slalom resulted in a more consistent pull, felt slow and really had to work for the balls. With GPS Slalom, and zbox/ball adjustments, we get a consistent pull through the course, with noticeable throttle up when pulling across that makes getting wide much easier and smoother.

Its taken some time to dial in ball times, especially with a wide range of skier weights and levels, to get good times and a great skiing boat. I can now say that my 02 SN 196 feels just like the 2017 MC Prostar with ZO I also ski behind from pull standpoint. At least at our hack levels of skiing!

I still find the one end of our course, that has a 90 degree turn before heading into the 55's comes in hot. I've just learned to load the boat more on my pull out to help slow it down.

 

[kylegansel]

@Windsurfnut I failed to mention that most of us are skiing in "wakeboard" mode as we're not competing. We have a course but are all skiing anywhere from 15 off to 32 off (28 to 34mph) so the difference in the surging on my boat could be due to that. Maybe I should play with the crew weight a bit too. Maybe that would help but I'm not sure. Mine doesn't surge at a specific ball. It will surge after every turn when loading the line. It's uber frustrating if someone fly's past the set speed on my boat.

[Windsurfnut]

Oh ya, that would make a major difference! Wakeboard mode pulls very different then slalom mode. Running in RPM mode or Slalom Mode would give you much better pulls regardless of competing or not. We're course skier hacks too, and free skiing - no competing, and both benefit from a properly set up perfectpass system. I need all the help I can in the course, and prior to setting it up I would struggle on my boat, and be early on the ZO boat.

[kylegansel]

@Windsurfnut The problem with Slalom Mode is that you can set a speed for 33mph. It's 32, 34, and 36 right? I'm not sitting in my boat at the moment so I can go in and look.

[Windsurfnut]

ahh yes, the official speeds only - 30.4, 32.3, 34.2,36.

That was one of the major decisions for us to upgrade to 3-event was to get practice mode and be able to run passes between those speeds

[kylegansel]

@Windsurfnut So you upgraded to 3-Event? I'd actually have to see which version I have. It should be listed on the module correct? I see that 3-Event can be run in Wakeboard mode also right? http://perfectpass.com/?q=systems

[UWSkier]

@kylegansel yes, you can run the 3 event in wake mode. As @Windsurfnut mentioned, the practice mode in 3 event is great for making .1 mph incremental adjustments. I have a ski bud who loves to ski at 33 MPH.

[kylegansel]

@uwskier - I saw that I can actually upgrade my wake edition to 3-event for about $200. I may have to check that out next spring with PP.