Grow the Sport??

[dbaconaz]

 

We always talk about growing the sport of water skiing, and introducing new enthusiasts to the sport. Making your fist full pass in slalom course is amazing or landing and skiing away your first jump is something you will always remember! But why do we make is so hard on ourself to let the sport grow? Why do only those who can afford to live on private lake get that experience?

 

I live in Phoenix, AZ where you have beautiful year round skiing weather! We only have a few accessible public lakes that are accessible for daily usage, but also have 6 private ski lakes. As many people on public lakes know it’s almost impossible to get the counties to agree to place a temporary ski course let alone a jump ramp. Learning to ski on open water is where its at however to grow the sport you will want to introduce them to a course! Thats when you real “bug” sets it teeth!

 

But what about bring those of us who are not able to buy a million dollar home on a private lake, or buy a lot for thousands of dollars with a monthly HOA fee that I can’t afford only to have access to those ski courses and jump ramps? Myself like so many others love to ski the course and even hit the ramp and have been lucky in my life to work at ski schools to have all this availability. However here is sit today with no options to get a pull through a course! Every lake in this city you must own property to be able to ski. Sure I can drive to California and have that options but that is only something that can happen a few times a year.

 

I understand that every part of the country is different with more or less access to lakes. Washington has many lakes and you are able to get “memberships” for reasonable cost to access that slalom course or jump ramp. I understand that those who are able to buy a million dollar home don’t want random people skiing on their lake! Here in Phoenix they are doing everything they can to not grow the sport! Keeping people away from growing the sport. Why is it so difficult to run a pay per pass or membership options that will not break the bank!

 

I love the sport of waterskiing and all aspects of it! Hitting the lake doing some wake boarding and surfing is always fun! It’s accessible to anyone, but for those of us that want to push our skiing and grow the sport that comes with the challenge of the course! How can we as a community come together to grow the sport?

[Orlando76]

Real simple, despite what skiers “say” they DO NOT want the sport to grow. It’s an elitist sport for the elite and most of those people are over 50 and darn sure don’t want little kids to be around to experience skiing because they’re past that point in life. And the counties won’t budge or cooperate because the government does not want people to have fun. Damn I’m a ray of sunshine.

[BraceMaker]

There are a few ski lakes in this world that do a good job of "public" programming.

 

Out of curiosity do you search for and sign up for local events every year?

http://www.usawaterski.org/rankings/View-TournamentsHQ.asp?pvar=TourInfo&TourID=20W066&olrds=enabled&rg=1&sl=on&tr=on&ju=on&wb=&ws=&wu=&bf=&kb=&hy=&sExclude=

 

[BraceMaker]

Looks like about 6 events around your town yet in October.

[The_MS]

How much does water cost in the desert?

[dbaconaz]

yes I do try and sign up for the very few tournaments here in the phoenix area. However there are no places that you can even do a pay per pass in the area let alone join a club!

 

[BrennanKMN]

I run a course on public water. Nothing makes me happier than to see another boat out there with a skier either using the course or trying to learn the course. Heck, I even gave a pull to a guy the other week who didn't have a course capable driver. The more people that use the course and enjoy it the better for me. Then I have a group of people that will stand by my side and support the course should something happen with the permit.

 

Then there are the downsides. There are more people using my course! That means more people knocking off balls replacing them incorrectly or not at all. More people trying to ski after work when the wind is right. More attention on the course from the fisherman because it is like a mini 'race track' compared to the rest of the lake.

 

I love having people to share the course experience with, but I start to get a little frustrated when I spend an hour loading up the boat and driving to the lake to find 2 other skiers out there skiing. I (and many others) have a very limited window of time I am able to ski and going from having basically a private course (outside of the other lake goers making waves) to having to share with more and more people is difficult.

 

It is hard to share when the resources are limited. More courses means we can spread out the skiers. Few courses means more stacked up skiers causing people who are able to run to a private site.

 

My two cents is we need to have some serious representation from USA Water Ski or similar to help push to make getting courses on public water easier. I am lucky to live in a county that has lots of course permits, but many are not so lucky.

 

 

[klindy]

@Orlando76 Generally speaking, I'd actually disagree with your comment. I think that the majority of people (at least those involved in tournament skiing) would like to see the sport grow. That said, I would agree that many on private lakes would adhere to the "not in my back yard" philosophy. Meaning, if you want to grow the sport, advocate for a public course somewhere or build another private lake but don't expect two or three times the skiers at their private lake.

 

I don't mean to insinuate they are greedy or rude or anything else. It's just that they've spent the time, money and effort to build what they have and it works for them just as it is. Some private lakes I know of require long wait times between skiers. Others are just the opposite and are quite open for "club skiers".

 

@dbaconaz that said, what you apparently are finding is a market that has more demand than it does supply. The Phoenix area can probably use a few more ski lakes. Part of the problem is that the open land required to do that (and that's affordable) is likely well outside the current beaten path. So there's a risk to develop a new lake that is in the wrong spot for growth or doesn't have the demand to survive. There have been plenty private lakes developed around the US that didn't survive because they didn't sell enough lots (or memberships) to make it.

 

That leaves advocating for public water or some public-private partnership. Obviously there isn't a lot of public water in Phoenix so that's another situation where demand likely outpaces supply. Some kind of pubic-private partnership (in one form or another) doesn't typically start at city hall but rather it's a passionate skier (or group) who approach the city to "dig that lake in the new park just like this...." Okeeheelee in West Palm Beach, FL didn't just appear one day, it likely took years to make that come together.

 

So unfortunately that leaves you in a tough spot. Like has been already suggested, get involved in your local tournament scene. Volunteer, offer to judge, score or drive (assuming you have the credentials) sometimes there are practice opportunities if you show up to help set up for the weekend. Participating may open the door to a "club membership" or other "guest membership" possibilities (your mileage may vary). Sounds like you have the passion to find a way but frustration has piqued currently.

[2Valve]

Been skiing on a private lake for a long time and we raise our course on the weekends and during the week on occasion.

 

Our biggest advocates are those who come over to watch us faceplant and kill ourselves.

 

Yesterday morning a friendly group of 10 anchored just off 1 ball and even offered us breakfast afterwards.

 

We offered to take their kids through the course next time they're out. That's kind of how it works. You start with an interest, come over, check it out and hopefully the people that are "running the show" are generous with their time. In return, you support the skier's at lake association meetings and inform other "ignorant" lake owners that having a course on your lake only adds to the enjoyment for everyone.

 

Its a niche' sport. Always has been.

[Horton]

The west is hard. No two ways around it. I had to pony up a couple of hundred K for a place to ski. Personally I do take in strays all the time. This summer I have had college kids skiing at my house a lot. One the other hand I do have to explain to my non-skiing wife why there are college kids running through the house all day / all weekend AND why I do not just get my personal rides and then do other things.

 

Someone is going to suggest that I should let non-owners use the lake.The idea that the owners at my lake would let ANYONE drop their boat in and use the lake is a ridiculous. If you owned a house with a pool you would not let the neighbors use the pools like it was a public facility.

[Chef23]

There are a lot of great things about living in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area unfortunately easy access to slalom courses isn't one of them.

 

I am fortunate enough to live on public water with a slalom course. It is open to everyone. The trade off is the conditions are rarely perfect, there can be maintenance issues (we fortunately have a great group of people that contribute to maintaining the course) and the season is short.

 

The private lake issue I understand. As @klindy indicated these people have spent a lot of time and money to get them in a situation that they like and they are protective of it. If you spend a ton of money to have access to private water you generally want it to be available when you have time. If there are a ton of non-resident members there who are in for a much lower cost than homeowners it would be frustrating.

 

I have a friend with a private site and he is pretty willing to pull people but it is a massive drain on his time and resources. I know of a couple of other sites in the northeast with membership type of arrangements but it can run 4K+ for the year.

 

Without public water access for slalom courses it is a difficult situation. It is the biggest area that USA Water Ski may be able to help. I don't have any experience with getting permission to put a course in though ours have been in place for over 45 years.

[BrennanKMN]

The issue isn't private water. The issue is there are very view active courses on public water that can be easily used and observed by the general public. Private water will always be private and exclusive, that's the whole point.

 

We need to make course skiing available to the public. An aspiring skier isn't going to search out their local club and go for pulls, heck they probably don't even know that course skiing exists. They need to see a course in action on their local lake and are going to want to try too.

[Dockoelboto]

Full disclosure, I live on a private lake however I'm always happy to bring along guests/friends/random people I meet who are interested in skiing. I am a terrible skier but I really enjoy trying to get through the course - not that I can.

 

Personally I think a big way to build the sport is through tournaments. The big problem is that most people have no idea what that is, where/when they are happening and what to expect. Our lake hosts 2-3 tournaments every summer. I had never seen a tournament, nor even thought about it until I moved onto the lake. Watching great skiers is an amazing experience. The public is welcome to attend but does anyone show up? NOPE! The issue is advertising, no one, unless they are a part of the skiing community has any idea what is happening. Every time I have a friend over at my house and someone is out skiing the course they are amazed by it and are honestly interested in skiing. Washington state has many private ski lakes, many of which offer "reasonable" memberships. They also have regular tournaments but I can imagine that they rarely if ever have spectators.

 

Waterskiing has almost no TV presence and no advertising for the masses. Most course skiing is largely limited to private lakes. If we want to grow the sport, the general public have to know what tournament skiing is and make it enjoyable for spectators. If we create a positive environment and can then improve access our sport will grow.

 

Wakeboarding/surfing is more tolerable in rough open water and there is way more public awareness of those sports. If watersking wants to grow, we need to get the word out and make it grow.

 

Just my 2c.

[The_MS]

I grew up free skiing on lake Waconia until I was in my 30s.

@"Jack Kinne" and I went up in an air plane to find a location. We ended up putting in for permit and installing a course on Wassermen and taking over the permit and course on lake Auburn. Did that for years. Never once were any repairs or help given to get it up and running or put away in fall. Lots of time and effort into course maint. We let lots of people use them both. I finely was able to afford a place to ski on my own lake and now it’s all my fault that people can’t ski. If you have the desire to ski a course, put in the effort to make it happen or keep it down. Is this on Bernie or Kamalas pledge? Free course skiing for all if you elect them. Pay for it later.

[pmski]

I live on a private lake in Florida, for the last three years a friend and I have held a one month ski school every Saturday from 9 to 12 in the summer, it's a everybody's invited just show up we provide everything, mostly for the kids but adults too, the main reason I do this is because when I was young and didn't live directly on the lake my friends shared skiing with me, so I'm trying to give back, secondly I love this sport and want to share it, we have taught at least a hundred kids to ski, this year I have two brothers 13 and 14 both have that natural talent, and are eager to learn more, sine there first lesson they have progressed to slalom and are eager learn the course, on there last lesson they told there mom they want to buy new slalom ski's, I believe that's how we grow this great sport! I'm not sure who's getting more enjoyment watching them ski, them or me!

[dbaconaz]

@pmski I totally agree! I taught water skiing in the northwest for many summers! There is nothing better than watching the excitment of someone getting up or making it through the course or even over the ramp for that first time! It's hard to be in an area that does not have access to anything like that, and what is out there is not an option!!

[jercrane]

@MS I think your perspective and attitude are completely justified but also part of the problem ... if ...if there is truly a desire to grow the sport. The only way niche sports grow is through the tireless dedication and generosity of individuals in those sports.

 

I currently am dealing with this on both sides. At our lake my buddy and I have alone done everything for our current ski site. That includes the following.

- Applying for the permit every single winter and arguing with marina patrol about some aspect of the location or hours

- Paying for every single part

- Moving it 3 times because neighbors complained to the state

- Raising and sinking it manually every time we ski it

 

We have a reasonably good sized community of skiers on the lake. 30 some odd in the facebook group alone. Everyone wants to know when the course is available. When I asked for donations to help pay for it ... radio silence. When I ask for help repairing or moving ... radio silence. I definitely get the knee jerk reaction to tell them all to screw off and just go ski with my buddy and my kids.

 

At the same time in the past two years I have tried to join two private clubs that are within an hour of our full time residence (lake house is mainly weekends). Both attempts have failed miserably to get any traction. I'm willing to pay. I'm flexible on times. I can drive. I can fix/maintain a course. There just doesn't seem to be a strong interest to grow these clubs beyond the core members and their families. I totally get it ... I do. Pretty easy for those clubs to get out of control and make the experience less than what it currently is. It just makes pleas to "grow the sport" sound very disingenuous.

 

I want to find a way foster the early passion and interest my kids are showing in the sport but it is so hard in this environment.

 

I see both sides of it but in the end I come out on the side of making it easier for anyone to come ski.

 

That said I have met a ton of amazing and super generous people in this sport.

I'll keep dragging my muddy, weed covered, floating course off the bottom of the lake every weekend and begging for rides with my Venmo account in hand Monday to Friday. I hope my kids will do the same.

 

[The_MS]

I have an open invitation to all. If someone buys a 2018 or newer boat and is willing to keep it at my house, you can ski with me everyday. I supply dock, lift, course

and lake. You supply the new MC and up date it every other year and keep it on my lift.

 

[jercrane]

@MS I like how you slipped that MC specifier in there at the end. :D

 

Honestly that sounds like a pretty damn good deal to me if I was anywhere near you.

[jhughes]

To some degree it's how much you want to work and sacrifice for course access on public water. For years we dropped a portable course in and pulled it every time we wanted to ski the course. Early mornings on weekends, late nights on weekdays. And that's storing the boat in our garage, trailering it a half hour both ways, loading/unloading all the course pipes and crap. But we did it. We made it happen. I don't see many folks doing that these days, in fact I've never seen that outside of our own boat doing it back then.

 

What we need in my opinion is about 2 dozen more Okeeheelees scattered throughout the country. Dedicated but public ski lakes. Sheltered, club maintained, but everyone brings their own boats. How that idea only spread to 1 single spot in the entire country is beyond me but it seems like it would be a win win to do in other areas. Good parks/forest preserve revenue. How did they do it? How could it be done again?

 

Courses on public water are always going to suck to maintain and ski on, so again the Okee idea seems like what we really need. A perfect hybrid. Then you're driving a boating economy in the entire surrounding area. Boats in garages a totally common thing. People travelling there to train, feeding the local economy.

 

 

[The_MS]

@jercrane I would settle for any of them but we have MC now. They need to be ready to dump at least 150 hours per season on it.

Side note

We pull tons of guest skiers at our place. Many Ballers and local people. We even organized ski nights in the past.

[gsm_peter]

My 2 cents from Sweden.

There are about 66 clubs in Sweden, about 90 000 lakes plus coast. All cost and many lakes are public water.

Few public courses that I know of.

Our club run kids ski school every summer for 40 to 60 kids.

Any skier with a club membership are welcome as guest to ski free with own gas (resonable times).

Average membership in Sweden is about type 200 usd per year.

Club is for rent for events almost any day.

Do we grow the sport? Maybe slowly....

 

Btw.

U21 Worlds. Sweden men slalom places was 1,6,7,14,15,15. Six Swedes top 15!

 

Hope the sport will grow!

 

Hope to see some Ballers ski in Sweden in the future

[ski6jones]

Access is clearly the biggest barrier to entry in most places, followed by exposure as already stated. With that said I'm on a private site and had exactly zero people contact me through the ambassador program @Horton tried to boot strap a while back. Also very few of the non-skiing folks I've invited to ski have taken me up on it. I honestly think the competition for peoples time has gotten so much more intense than it was "back in the day" that we don't compete well with the other options out there. Reasons for that are mentioned above.

 

I frequently host guest skiers but rarely host a newb.

[Drago]

@dbaconaz for you, Firebird

[skiboyny]

The biggest problem is you need a fair bit of money to participate in any fashion. The guy with the most money will likely turn out to be the better skier. I just don't know how you get around that.

[scuppers]

@ms you are “spot on” with your post

Finally the truth!

[BrennanKMN]

This thread is going two directions. Do we want to grow the sport to bring in new course skiers or do we want to let all those that ski courses already get access to private water? They are two different things as far as I am concerned.

 

You don't grow the sport by having access to private water, that is how you make people already in the sport better. You grow the sport by getting lots of exposure. You get exposure on public water...

[coach3]

We have a sinkable course in a cove, public lake. It has been there for over 34 years. I maintain it, which takes a lot of work and money. I only put it up early morning or weekdays that are quieter...but, people seem to find us, and I will pull anyone or teach anyone at their level. We have taught sooo many at our expense. Our public lake course got a U21 champion, and 2x junior master champion, and 4 national champs. But, did we grow the sport?.....Well not sure. People seem to take a ride or two and don't progress and don't go for tournaments.

 

We do have Trash Talk Tuesday in the summer, where skiers can ski and talk big afterwards at a large dinner we host. It is fun, but lots of work and time on the boat. Are we growing the sport,...Again, I'm not sure.

[Golfguy]

@dbaconaz There are 12 tournaments each year in the Phoenix area. This is a good way to meet other buoy chasers and get to know them. PM me if you want to know more.

[jhughes]

The sport supports enough ski manufacturers and boat manufacturers to keep the baby boomers (and early X'ers I suppose), who have had a great run, happy. What happens when they stop skiing?

[Orlando76]

I failed to see how a tournament “grows our sport”. Kinda does the opposite in my opinion.

1. If you ski a tournament I’ll bet 100% of the people there have regular access to a DD ski boat and a course. So no growth there.

2. Spend average of $100 bucks to ski a tournament. If you were that once a week/month free skier why would you spend $100 to watch a buoy Pass you by because you cant run the course in your first pass.

3. Oh wait, gotta be AWSA member to ski the tournament, Correct? Why be AWSA member? What do they do for the once a week/month free skier? Please enlighten me. No growth there.

 

[BraceMaker]

Slalom needs beer leagues. Lakes with weekday night events with people coming to hang and have a beer after their set on Tuesday or Wednesday night.

[OldGuysRule]

Monday Night Ski League! Not much beer but plenty of fun!

I've participated and sponsored MNSL for years around central Indiana. This summer, Neal Clark, Megan Lambert, and myself have 6 MNSL events scheduled. Every event has been a "full house." I get surprised every event at the hunger to ski the course exhibited by novice skiers. Several of the skiers come to ski their first time on the course. My frustration is the lack of a "feeder club" for novice skiers. In the past, I had two clubs that catered to novice skiers and some of those novice skiers eventually graduated and became members of more "advanced" clubs and eventually became tournament skiers. I lost a feeder club this summer when White River dam collapsed in Indianapolis. There's plenty of interest out there but we need more sites. We need to impress existing clubs to offer a night a month for beginners and novice skiers. Neal and Megan are pictured preparing to pull the next skier at last week's MNSL.

[Dockoelboto]

Beer leagues or leagues in general would be a huge help! Tennis/softball have done amazingly well with that model. you could even expand scoring to help beginners still participate.

 

I'm not saying tournaments are the only way to grow the sport but it certainly helps people understand what the potential is. it is just a way to advertise the sport and promote more people trying the sport. You don't have to have a DD boat to waterski, nor do you have to have a private lake. Skiing is an expensive sport, no doubt. Tournaments and TV exposure are just ways to advertise the sport. It won't be for everyone and I don't believe it will ever be a hugely popular sport. But with limited to no exposure of what the potential is it is hard to drive new interest in the sport.

[mmosley899]

I agree that we need more public courses and clubs to promote the sport. We are fortunate to have a couple of courses on public lakes near my home. However we see very few skiers on the lakes other than to ones who have been at it for a while.

 

I regularly ski on public water these days with my daughter, son in law, and grandson. There are very few kids learning to ski these days on the public lakes. We are always glad to pull or coach anyone interested!

 

I would like to see more events like what @OldGuysRule runs on area lakes. Fun social skiing events are great for promoting the sport. I like the bouys, BBQ, and beer concept.

[Rpc29]

As a M2 skier who sort of skis tournaments it's an interesting predicament. Today's 20-35 year olds have more student debt than ever before making it even more challenging to afford some of the basics needed even for public lake skiing.

 

I know for me personally at 33 without access to the ski club I'm in, I'd probably be fading out of the sport similar to every single other member of my collegiate ski team. Ski clubs and the ability to essentially buy a "season pass" like people do for snow skiing are the future. Not $400,000 lots with 6000 square foot houses.

 

I'm very fortunate that people like @ScotChipman1 (RIP his BOS account) and @Milford welcomed me to the Utah waterski scene when I moved out from Georgia.

[mmosley899]

@Rpc29 glad you have been able to find a way to stay involved! I know yours is a common problem facing skiers moving from college teams into the real world. We need more public lake water ski clubs to help provide an opportunity for those skiers.

[JaredSmith]

@dbaconaz go to the Arizona tournaments and ask around, I think you will find some people to ski with on those private lakes. You can buy a lot right now at Spring Mountain for around $100k but water is expensive is AZ so the HOA fees are high. I know Dave Buchli at Buchli Ski Lake will pull people for a per set fee.

[coach3]

I guess our Trash Talk Tuesdays are like a beer league. It is just fun on the course. We also get some old college graduates that find us and ask for a pull. That I suppose is our sport.

 

[Stevie Boy]

It would be great if there were more sites like Okeeheelee, as long as you have a Tournament Boat and$60 -$90 for a permit for the year, you are good to go, I maybe out of touch with the price right now.

Ask your Governor what you pay taxes etc for.

[Drago]

@Stevie Boy Florida is a bit different. If you can dig a 5' hole you have a ski lake.

Parks generally try to "benefit the most people"

[BraceMaker]

@Rpc29 - exactly - M2 should be huge. What do you need to court M2 skiers to the lake.

 

Ski sites with activities - http://www.thequarrycablepark.com/quarry-grille/ this place has a bar - do that in an area near a town and you'll get people watching even if they don't want to.

[ToddL]

Central Texas has a club which serves as a collaboration and coordination entity of the local sites. The club's purpose is to support and sustain the sport. That club has encouraged the sites and other clubs to always do a little something to support growth. That can be clinics, leagues, or lessons.

 

Currently, the club organizes a summer ski league which rotates around the sites and is scheduled roughly every other Wednesday. Skiers pay a day pass or GR USAWS for liability coverage plus an extremely small fee per pull. Coaching is not guaranteed but often happens. The site picks a volunteer driver/boat owner who receives the fees which should cover gas and a little more for his or her time. The site donates the access/time with no fee since it is just a few hours a few times a year that is donated. The club have a volunteer who coordinates the events/sign-ups, etc. The volunteer(s) and boat owner/driver get a ski set at the event.

 

This works. I can say that a few of our original league skiers competed at Nationals this year. The ski league has been in existence for 7 years.

 

 

[vtmecheng]

An interesting observation I had this past July 4th week. I was on a public lake in VA where we hadn't seen much skiing in years, it's mostly wake surfing and tubing. Wakeboarding was big for a while but that went away just as many here have noticed. This past summer things seem to have changed a bit. We still see some wake surfing, got to justify those expensive boats, but we actually saw a lot more skiing. Mostly people on doubles just learning a bit and having fun. We were so happy to see kids learning and adults having fun free skiing, mostly behind runabouts. That's where skiing starts, not the course where it looks almost unobtainable for the new skier. What was cool is when I went out. Now I'm not even a good skier compared to many here but compared to those around us on the open lake I could make a big spray and look good. A few of those skiers stopped their boat or sat on their dock and just watched me. If they wanted to talk I am happy to. I think that's the first step, just showing a couple steps up, something that's still within reach of possible and looks cool enough to create a desire.

 

This isn't an easy problem to tackle and I don't think there is one answer. Some will see course skiing and want to jump right in, that's a certain kind of person. Others will think they could never do that but going on one ski and just making a big spray seems like a cool goal. Either way, it helps the sport. No question that we need more for fun ski groups but that also means more places to ski and organized groups, which means more people stepping up to lead. Again, not an easy problem and I sure don't have all the answers.

[ToddL]

In addition to the league, one of the lake sites has been running a pay-to-ski, first-come/first-served ski school since the 90's. My first lesson was there and I ran the course for the first time that day. Hooked for life! Since then, I have participated as a volunteer coach/driver for the past 19 or so years. The ski school is open 1 day per week from 5 pm till dark from May till demand drops off around the start of school. I have a substantial collection of used gear (mostly my son's skis which I never sold) from skimmers through 67" combos in all available sizes, a couple of stable slalom skis, ski vests, and even used gloves. The site owner provides the lake time, boat, and gas. Also, they have a boom for teaching. Our skiers are on average learning the course slalom skiers. However, each year I teach a few more people how to ski for the very first time. Some have kept with it and have even skied in tournaments.

 

Do you recognize the name Grathwohl? Their parents brought the girls to my ski school to wet their appetite for skiing. Clearly they have gone on to bigger and greater things. However, something as simple as helping them learn to ski or discover the basics of slalom was a spark that hasn't died, rather it has grown brightly.

 

What do I get out of it? I get paid in smiles - hundreds of thousands of them by now. They are priceless. I have a ton of new friends who are amazing people. I get to share time at the ski site for my investment of time in the ski school.

[dbaconaz]

@JaredSmith yes tournaments and talking with people will help to get a pull every once in a while, Dave is no longer doing pay/pass as he doesn't have the time. We have 3 lakes in the area with no homes on them but again you must buy a lot to ski at that facility. Some of us are not able to carry basically a 2nd mortgage for a ski lot!! why don't these ski facilities help themselves with some cost by doing memberships up to a point where lots are sold with new homes. At the very least!!

[dbaconaz]

@ToddL This is exactly what we need more of! We have 3 lakes here in the phoenix area that have no homes ( or 1-3 homes) on the water and are trying to sell lots.. Why don't these lakes open to what you are doing and help the bottom line along with helping the community and grow the sport!!

[dbaconaz]

@vtmecheng I totally agree this is not an easy problem to solve. I with I had an answer!

[UWSkier]

@dbaconaz I'm still waiting for that paintball splash setup so we can ski the splash course on the Saguaro flats. :)

[dbaconaz]

@UWSkier Yes!! we need that bad!!! lol