Is The Ski Nautique An Epic Fail

[skierjp]

It’s crazy what a piece of shrink wrap tape accidentally left on the bottom of the boat will do to a boat!!!

[Inboardfix]

During the introduction of the TSC1 at the 1996 Correct Craft Dealer Meeting Larry Meddock (Vice President of CC at the time) made the following statement to the dealers, "we'll know how good this boat is by how long it takes our competitors to respond". Mastercraft released a new hull for the 1998 model year. Best thing about the '98 PS190 is it was so bad MC had to bring Rob Shirley back to fix it (anyone remember the bolt on sponson fix of Rob's?).

 

Although MC's 2021 new boat obviously wasn't rushed to market like the '98 (looked it over pretty well at Nats and it looks great) I do believe it isn't coincidental the development of it began 2 years ago which is shortly after the '19 SN was released. This "2 years ago" estimate is given by Will Bush in the 2021 introduction video.

 

My guess is most of the posters on this topic have very little experience driving the new SN. Currently, I've put about 80 hours on my 1100 hour former ski school 2019. It is by far the finest SN I've ever owned. 1100 hour ski school used Seadek still looks pretty good as does the interior.

 

Advantages over the SN200:

- tracking, this boat practically drives itself. My '14 SN200 was awesome! This boat is better.

- ride quality, even on a private site you'll notice a significantly softer wake crossing. If you're on a public lake you really need to drive this boat in rough water before making a purchase decision. Ride quality is impressive.

- very difficult to swamp the nose unlike the 200

- great place to sit on the transom to wet your glove and boots prior to skiing. Ever tried to sit on the transom of a 200 to wet your gloves/boots? Not easy to do.

- perhaps the best trick wake since the '82-89 SN. Yes, because of ballast but it tricks great.

- fuel fills on both sides. Never warmed up to the center fuel fill

- much more user friendly Link screen.

- much less likely to catch the rope during sit downs

- better layout of heater vents

- loveseat heater

- bilge plug much easier to get to

- skiing is amazing behind it but I ski the same behind pretty much anything. Gonna run 32 and then stink it up at 35. If stars align just right might see 38 but thats been awhile.

 

My job allows me the opportunity to drive many ski boats. Last week lake tested a 1989 SN, 1998 SN, 2005 SN196 and a 2015 SN200. I loved every second of all the drives and have personally owned and put well over 1500 hours on each of those hulls (only 80 on the new hull). Each time CC/now Nautique Boat Company changed the hull the boat was improved and the same is true with the new hull.

 

Does the boat require proper set up? Absolutely, but all prior Nautique models did too. Set the rudder tab straight (don't angle it at all), make sure the gate is flush with the bottom of the boat (if it isn't make the dealer correct it), leave ballast empty for slalom (thought that was obvious) and set the ZO.

 

As for all the technology intimidating people I don't get it. There are 3 actuators: 1 for gate (really like the actuator versus the cable driven of the old gate, add that to the list above), 1 for port side tuners and 1 for starboard side tuners. All the other tech stuff all the new boats have, ie screens. Really don't get all the complaining about Seadek either. Good ideas are copied and the 2021 MC has Seadek everywhere too. Stepping on Seadek versus gel is much safer.

 

After reading the "just add water" comments I skied my boat w/o changing the rope length (no tuners were activated). Guess what? I ran 32 and stunk it up at 35, same as always. Tuners are a great idea and really do fill the trough as designed. However, all us old guys are used to troughs so doubt you'll lose a bouy if you forget to change the screen. What the tuners may do is make a difference for the true short line skiers.

 

I'm glad a close friend, whose opinion I respect, convinced me to buy the new hull when he said it was the finest Nautique ever. He was right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VONMAN]

I've skied behind my buddies 1999 Response ($13,000 used) and my other friend's 2020 Master Craft Pro Star (est. $80,000 new) The Wake's and pull behind the boat are the same from 28 thru 39 1/2 are the same!? So whats the difference?? Can someone tell me from a skier's point of view or owner?

[Sethro]

@VONMAN that’s something I’ve been saying for years. It’s essentially a more modern, refined experience for the driver and passengers. With speed control as an exception, if you can’t do it behind a 1999 Response, you can’t do it behind a 2020 Prostar.

[Inboardfix]

The TSC1 hull was introduced at the 1997 CC dealer meeting which was held in the fall of 1996, not the 1996 dealer meeting.

[escmanaze]

@JackQ The title is not somewhat inflammatory, it is very inflammatory. Then when you review what the OP said in his actual comments, it is not just that it was inflammatory, it's that it was also completely clickbait. Hence the reason for so many posts - because everybody is falling for the clickbait and getting caught up defending against the ridiculous arguments of a few trolls.

 

Also, just one more thing for everybody, more general and not as totally specific to this exact thread:

 

If you aren't worth $4 million bucks and/or have an annual income of more than $300k, please just shut up about the prices of the new Nautique. YOU AREN'T THEIR TARGET MARKET! THEY DON'T CARE THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEIR BOAT! YOU JUST COME OFF AS ENVIOUS / JEALOUS / IMMATURE / SMUG / SOUR GRAPES / OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY. You would really be best served to stop trying to tell really rich people that their cool new toy "actually wasn't worth it." It makes you look bad - not the boat manufacturer, and not the rich guy who bought the boat.

 

The same goes for any other brand of brand new boat (I mean tournament ski boat of course) if you aren't worth at least $2 million and/or have an annual income of at least $200k. Please, just shut up, acknowledge that you aren't wealthy enough to be their target market, and keep your opinions to yourself about what "worth it" might mean to a guy who is many times as wealthy as you are.

 

And remember, I say this, as a "poor" person, who can just barely afford to keep skiing his 23 year old boat and absolutely LOVES his 23 year old boat.

[escmanaze]

To be fair: Is the new Nautique possibly likely, higher than average, to offering folks a poor experience because one of the settings or parameters might be wrong? Sure. It sounds like it. So go ahead and classify it as "a boat that should be owned by folks who pay attention to and know how to use their stuff". Otherwise known as "not fool-proof".

 

Ok great.

 

Is it also the most expensive boat on the market? Sure. So go ahead and classify it as "a boat for rich guys only"

 

Ok great.

 

But an epic fail? Really? That's just pure clickbait and trolling.

[wart]

@escmanaze, I’m going to take your comments as accurate. So....

I just realized that for the last 35+ years I have NOT been a Correct Craft customer... as I’ve purchased my Nautiques used.

Actually, I have been a customer of “rich guys.”

Therefore, hey, “rich guys,” make better choices in your new boat purchases... seems like half of those who comment here are counting on you.

[vtmecheng]

@escmanaze that's a lot of anger over boat opinions. Just remember we are all entitled to our own opinions.

 

I agree that the boat is targeted to the rich. That doesn't mean I can't be pissed about it. I can't afford a Ferrari but there are less expensive options for new sporty cars. I don't expect those options to be as good as a Ferrari but they get the job done. For ski boats many of us can only buy used. Problem is that the crazy price of new boats is driving used boat prices up, meaning it's harder for us "poor folk" to get into the sport. Call it complaining or just stating facts.

[slow]

I’m just glad that 3 ski boat companies are pushing the envelope for our sport.

[escmanaze]

@vtmecheng "that's a lot of anger over boat opinions"

 

Yup, I've had a pretty anger filled day. Sorry everybody. Apparently I decided to release all my venom on my #1 BOS pet peeve that I'm usually able to keep held in while I tell myself "serenity now".

 

 

 

[escmanaze]

@vtmecheng I certainly understand your frustration / anger with the concept of a brand new boat being pushed further and further away from reality every year a new one comes out. I'm right there with you buddy.

 

But actually, look on the bright side. According to a bunch of these clownfish jokers that hang around here, my 97 TSC1 is just as good as, if not better than, the new boats coming out that cost 4-8 times as much and so actually only an idiot would ever pay those kinds of high prices when they could get all the same functionality from a 23 year old boat at a drastically lower price.

 

So actually, the fact you and I don't have money is a good thing because that is saving us from being one of those suckers who pays tons of money for a brand new boat when the old ones were actually better!! Just imagine how we would be getting "ripped off" on these new boats if we had tons of money and could easily afford one of them, and therefore didn't consider the merits of the decades old boats.

 

 

 

 

Yikes. More anger. This time just coming out as sarcasm. Anybody around here that might be able to refer me to a good therapist? I might have some anger management issues.

 

[tjs1295]

@escmanaze I get your point completely. I also feel a lot like @vtmecheng. I can't afford a Ferrari either, but I could afford something brand new that would be perfectly fine for my needs. I have a feeling most people could afford one of the brand new boats because total price doesn't really matter, it's what the monthly payment is. I just have a rule about not financing toys. And a ski boat most certainly is a toy.

 

One question I have is what about this dynamic that goes on between ski boat dealers and the customer? I've talk to people who have tried to have work done with the local Mastercraft dealer, and it's a huge battle because they didn't buy their boat from them. There's a Nautique dealer 10 miles away as well. I haven't heard any stories about them, but I don't personally know many other people who own Nautiques. My point is that it made me think twice about where I bought my last boat from. It's easy to say just go buy a used one, but it becomes a major bummer if they won't work on the boat for you when needed. Fortunately, I was able to get a nice used boat from that dealer, but it was pure luck. If I buy a Ford truck in Alabama, I won't have any problem getting work done on it in Wisconsin. That does not seem to be the case as far as ski boats go, at least where I live it isn't. Is this something that goes on nationally?

[tjs1295]

And I'm not complaining too much about new boat costs. The new Prostar at $75,000 actually sounds very reasonable to me. If I could get a boat on a trailer for that amount, count me in. Even if it doesn't have any options. Base engine, and speed control is all I need.

[6balls]

The boat is NOT a fail if they sell out all of production.

 

The only failure if they sell out,(granted they have a decent margin), is whether or not they should have made more of them for the market needs.

 

That, of course, is balanced against their available resources to satisfy the market that wants their products that have even more margin (wake/surf boats). If those sell out, too, then there is opportunity for growth via market share, jobs, facilities etc.

 

Did they sell all they made at a reasonable margin? If so, Epic Success not Epic Failure.

[escmanaze]

@tjs1295 I totally hear you. My local Nautique dealer has been really great to work with even though my boat is 23 years old. My local MC dealer on the other hand SUCKS!!!!!! So right now, if I suddenly got a big raise at work and could afford something closer to new, I would love to pick up a 2 or 3 year old MC, as I personally prefer it to the Nautique, but then I think about trying to work with that dealer, and my enthusiasm dies pretty quickly.

 

I'm sure the "bad dealer" problem happens nationwide, but it's totally hit and miss as it is completely specific to the individual who owns the dealership. I'm sure the factories are always looking to hook up with the best dealers in town, but if there is only 2 good ones and one bad one, then one of the big 3 has no choice but to just put up with the bad dealer.

[tjs1295]

@escmanaze I see what you're getting at, but I'm not saying these dealers are bad. Isn't there something with the dealers that you have to buy a new boat from the one that's closest to you? Even if you could work out a better deal in a different location?

 

I understand the dealers want to take care of their loyal customers first. My neighbor is one who dealt with the Mastercraft dealer. He had an appointment in a day or two to fix his boat. Within minutes of hanging up with him they called him back because they didn't realize he bought the boat from someone else. They went on to tell him it would be at least two weeks, but they weren't really sure when they could fix his boat. Honestly, I didn't think this was a bad dealership, I figured this was standard operating procedure for all three of the main companies. Maybe I'm way off base with all of this.

[ozski]

@escmanaze Product market fit conversation, its hard to get much feedback out here in Australia because the new boat is not really selling at all, even discounted. On the other hand Mastercraft has plenty of traction and will get even more with the new boat. The few skiers I talk to in the US tell me they prefer the 200 so I think the conversation is fair. And I will say it again I'm a fan of the new boat I just don't think I will see it in a tournament much but hope I am wrong.

[dave2ball]

To say weather or not the new Nautique is an epic fail or not is in the eye of the beholder. If a person likes the new lines and appearance plus the upgraded features then it’s not a failure. If a person like the new hull design plus the the way it drives then it not a failure to them. I’ve left my personal opinion about the new Nautique out not because I am sore at Nautique which I am not, I really didn’t have an opinion either way on the new boat. It does drive and skis great. If you believe purchasing the new Nautique will take your skiing to the next level I hope it does. If you purchase the new Nautique because you love the interior and performance is secondary enjoy the boat.

As I said the boat skis and drives great. The boat is not an epic failure. But this boat will not take me to the next level. Nor will the prostar or TXI. The only thing that will bring my skiing up to the next level is training behind all of the big three boats, having a positive attitude both on and off the water plus a great training crew.

[dvskier]

Let the buyers decide. America!

[slow]

If Nautique took the duckbill out of the bow cover they would have a good looking boat. People would embrace the new technology more. You don’t need to redo the whole boat

 

 

[yourdaguy]

One thing to consider with the comments on the SN and left to right balance. The smaller, narrower, and lighter the boat; the more small changes in weight distribution will change the left to right balance. I would expect SN owners to have to make more small adjustments in weight distribution. Also, the whetted surface at the rear of the boat will affect this at speed (wider transom=less susceptible to weight shifts at speed).

[swc5150]

I have no clue if CC considers it a success, but this thread exists within the largest gathering of the target market out there...so that's probably not what was hoped for? Kudos to CC for continuing to innovate though.

[Dacon62]

Is the Ski Nautique an epic fail. Nope, but I sure wouldn’t pick to ski behind it at 15 and 22 off.

Watch some of the mortals ski the longer lines at the Travers Gran Prix and I can bet you they wish the wake was smaller and softer. Blah, blah, body position, maybe not on the best edge but that is what happens at the longer lines. The skiers craft has not been perfected yet. You can take my Prostar from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

 

 

[UWSkier]

@Dacon62 I noticed that. Folks were getting launched. It also seemed some of the pros were not exactly loving it. The trough, especially for the guys at 41, looked pretty harsh. Some skiers mentioned the feel of the boat, changing ZO numbers between rounds, etc in their interviews.

[tru-jack]

@Dacon62 I also noticed the longer line skiers getting launched. As you say they could have more edge, but a number of them ran into 28’ and 32’ off so they are not complete beginners. This represents the majority of slalom skiers being 32’’ off and longer, at least the older guys in our club. I still want try for myself, but this all but eliminates the boat from my list. So deciding on new prostar or wait to see next version of txi.

[RAWSki]

@tru-jack do you have any information?? what makes you think there will be a "next version" of the TXi?

[tru-jack]

@RAWSki I don't have any specific information, but based on previous model updates, the newest 2017 design would be due for a refresh in 2022, so hopefully we see something mid-summer next year.

[Dacon62]

Here you are, a Nautique faithful. You just dropped a wad on what is hailed as the most advanced built and equipped boat. Also the most expensive. You don’t even take it for a spin because, hey it’s the best, so you expect everything to be better or best.

You hook up the rope...pull up, then out at 15/22 off. You admire your new beauty from the side as you glide and smile...turn in, hit the wake and get launched. Wow, would I ever be absolutely PO’d.

 

PS My buddy’s 196 skis great.

[elr]

I've skied the SN long and slow (-15/26), wasn't getting launched and enjoyed myself. My personal boat is a 196.

[jayski]

Just skied for a week behind a new Ski and a tourney behind another brand new ski, felt amazing, drove great...ran my highest scores of the year behind them, crazy impressed. Have skied many others since they came out but these new ones feel awesome

[Frank_MA]

I am a 32/34 mph 15 to 28 off skier and we own a new 2020 Nautique 200 in our club . In addition to some quality problems (engine has to be changed due to a defective oil pump, steering loose, wedge belt makes noises, the SN200 has a very unpleasant wake especially at 22 off. Beside that it drives very well straight trough the course.

I had the opportunity this summer to drive and ski behind a Carbon Nautique and was so surprised that not only the quality of this boat is much better but also the wake in the speed and line length range where I ski feels flatter and much softer than behind the SN200 and also the SN196 witch was the best boat for me until. At 34/15 the wake is just as soft that it no longer bothers and also the 15 off buckle is clear reduced. So I think this Boat would help to bring me back to the level I was 10 years before since after the more than 6 Month winter break we have I'm stuck every year in the 15-22 off hole for too long before I can shorten to the 28 off. So from my own experience the Nautique is drive, quality and wake wise a superb boat but the epic fail on that story is here in Europe it costs minimum 140,000 dollars and we as a club cannot afford it. We actually where interested after 30 years with Nautique to buy a Mastercraft but the dealer was unable to make an acceptable offer to us.

[Clydesdale]

FWIW I ski behind a SN200 and a new nautique regularly. Typically 15 off, 32-34mph. I can’t feel any real difference between the wakes-both are nice and soft IMO. However I do weigh 215 so I don’t exactly launch from the water very easily.

[MISkier]

I only know that I had to start paying attention to the wake on my 22 off opener again with the new Nautique, after having forgotten about it when the 197 faded off into history.

[skialex]

Had my first set today behind the new ski Nautique. Don’t know what the wake is at -22 but I took 2x-28 and 4x-32 passes and the boat pull was awesome. Wake was non existent at those line lengths, was even flatter than the 200... My knees would love this boat.

Now I really really want to also ski Behind the new Prostar!