Growing skiing

[ballsohard]

We always talk about growing the sport which is great but I'm curious why we don't encourage a more diverse group of individuals to get into skiing.

 

How can we accomplish this type of growth?

 

Even pro golf seems to have a more expansive group of participants.

 

This likely makes a lot of potential skiers shy away.

 

Wouldn't it be great to see an African American run 39.5 off?

 

 

 

[MillerTime38]

I have never been to any ski lakes that didn’t allow African American skiers ??‍♂️. This thread is gonna die quick or go way off topic, my money is on off topic

[ballsohard]

I never insinuated that they didn't allow African Americans. I'm just wondering how we can get tons of people of all backgrounds interested in an awesome sport like skiing.

 

I have never been to a ski lake that doesn't allow big money prizes at tournaments but that makes no difference because almost nobody knows about skiing.

 

We need to get the word out there in a better way.

 

@MillerTime38

[MillerTime38]

@ballsohard i have taken a couple of my African American friends (or as they like to be referred to as my black friends) out to the lake and they enjoyed it but at the end of the day referred to it as WPS(white people shit)

 

You refer to golf as a comparison, if you want to golf it takes $200 to buy a starter set of clubs, $40 for green fees and a local golf course which there are tens of thousands of them located all over the country, compared to waterskiing where you need a ski, jacket, rope handle, oh and a bank loan for a boat....oh yeah and a large body of water

[Horton]

The moment this thread becomes political it will simply disappear.

 

All humans should be and are welcome. The issues in the sport are cost, accessibility and exposure. We need to welcome anyone who wants to join us.

[The_MS]

It is a world wide sport so there must be a diverse population skiing. We are a nation of mutts so not sure why everything is always in color.

[ALPJr]

Here’s the trailer from The Waters Edge, a movie about a criss-cross country trip to ski sites in the lower 48 filmed in ‘05/‘06 ish. It’s a pretty broad, fun look into the waterski community. There are a couple places in CT that focus on bringing the sport to diverse groups, and raise funds for adaptive skiers, wounded warriors, and at-risk youth.

[DW]

@ballsohard - curious as to why you posed the question, any thread on this site I have scrolled through simply goes down the path of growth and inclusion of anybody / everybody that could be or wants to be a participant. As Horton mentions, there are several barriers to entry all relating to equipment and water.

[Obrienslalom]

The reality is 95% of us are in the sport because our parents were (or otherwise exposed to it regularly).

 

Agree that it is not equally appealing to all people. Unfortunately, it is not all that appealing to people that aren't into #lakelife already. You can take them out for a weekend and get them to combo ski, but it takes an interest and dedication to slalom. I converted my wife, but don't have high hopes for any of my friends.

[Johnseed]

One thought I had was this....

Competitive skiing isn't something easy to do. If you can run a pass through the slalom course at any speed or line length you are already in a small company of skiers. The time it takes to progress not to mention the bumps and bruises from falling does not appeal to lots of folks.

 

I think this is why lots of us still own combos, a wide slalom, or heaven forbid a wakeboard....to introduce a newbie to our world of skiing madness. We have probably 10x the number of kids tuning on our lake than we do skiing or even wakeboarding....it takes zero skill to ride a tube.

 

Technically you can 'play' golf with zero skill, lots of people do it....the scores might be astronomically high but people are playing. Skiing isn't the same at all.

 

All that being said, I never understand why everyone doesn't love this sport. Time on the lake with friends and family, enjoying nature, challenging yourself to be better, and making lots of spray, what's not to love?

 

Off all the folks we have taught it almost always comes down to their first bad fall....after that they either quit or become more determined to succeed.....that's the only line of diversity I can really see in the sport.

[ForrestGump]

It's really easy to say we need to grow the sport. Grow it to what? What is the metric? What is the hurdle that must be crossed for "growth" to be successful. Until that is defined, every effort is just like peeing into the wind.

[jcamp]

@ForrestGump How about big enough so that I always have a driver?

[Wish]

Lots and I meant LOTs of diversity in viewership when pro tour stops were held either in Down Town Orlando or Very close by. For the average Joe spectator, the sport looks hard. Impossible to understand (line off the rope..what??) It looks monotonous from shore..same thing over and over and over. Without to much thought by Joe spectator, it looks like it’s very expensive to do. I’ll wager a guess that after each and every publicly seen pro event With a large public presence on site created less then .05% in any sales uptick of boats, skis, lake property, and the like for any new to the sport person ....regardless.

[kurtis500]

I wouldnt try th NASCAR model

[MISkier]

@ForrestGump, my metric for successful growth would be that I could go to any public lake of sufficient size (say 30 acres or more) and find a course available or install one without being required to remove it each day. And, the DNR would adopt policies and regulations such that water skiers and ski courses receive equitable, or even preferential, treatment as that of fishermen and duck hunters. No regulations on any lakes for no wake times during the daylight hours (one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset). When our sport elevates from its current position regarding the use of public lakes, we will have succeeded.

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Says the world's foremost expert on peeing into the wind.......

[swc5150]

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find someone who isn't aware that water skiing is a thing. If a person doesn't have some innate desire to try it, no amount of additional promotion will help IMHO.

[Keith_Menard]

I don't think the sport is even at a point to discuss reaching out to specific communities. I think we need to take pass the handle very seriously. The Nipmuc waterski club, Holland (aquariders) ski team, and Webster Waterski Collective all host learn to ski days. Put the handle in the hand and go from there.

[skichief]

46% of US adults can swim. How many of those are urging their children to get in a lake?

[ozski]

It's hard to grow any sport right now with such a high percentage of kids / people addicted to small screens.

[LoopSki]

We are a victim of our own demise. What should be a fun activity has turned to a sport that is way to technical and geared to the elite only. Average joe can’t afford it , and why would they care to get involved. Every aspect from ski boats to ski design is so overly engineered. It’s supposed to be about fun. It’s turned into work. Many love it. But your not get the masses to hop onboard.

[MDB1056]

@MISkier - 30 acres is a lake? Yikes that’s tiny

[hbfs]

@ballsohard touches on a very key point that has (mostly) been ignored by the following replies:

 

Wanting to grow diversity in the sport is one thing. Encouraging it is another.

 

I am Chinese-American, and my parents were immigrants from poor farming villages. I picked up the sport at 22 years old. I have many opinions and will answer specific questions. I suspect that there won't be many other ethnic voices in the room.

[MISkier]

@MDB1056, that size is about the smallest I could envision putting a slalom course in safely while still giving the proper clearances from shorelines and docks. And, I have seen some public lakes about that size (maybe slightly larger) that would be awesome for a slalom course.

[Johnseed]

@LoopSki - my wife often reminds me that this is supposed to be fun and to stop taking it soooooo serious. A bad day skiing is still an awesome day.

 

To that point there was a thread posted a while back that basically said that sometimes we only put forth the negative....micro-adjustment of find, bindings, boat wake, zero off settings etc....instead of just how awesome it feels to throw walls of spray turning buoys and the rush of speed across the back of a boat wake on flat glassy water.

[MrJones]

So you're a guy or gal who likes to open water slalom and consider yourself pretty good. Has maybe even seen a water ski magazine in the past or watched a good skier on Youtube who you try to mimic. You see there is a tournament close by so you enter and give it a shot.

 

You get there and realize that while everyone is really friendly, they have all been doing this for 10-30 years and are neck deep in it. Even the lower end competitors are -22/-28 off skiers while you can barely run a pass at long line or -15 at your minimum speed. The people at -35 to -39 seem to be in another world.

 

So maybe you had fun and consider it as a sport. Let's see. Sell the IO and spend maybe $30-50K on a used tournament boat. Then to find a place to train, people to train with, get the proper equipment, devote X amount of years to it? I don't think it's attractive to the masses. Much more simple to buy a used set of golf clubs and play a muni course (or insert whatever low barrier to entry sport that you wish). I'm not saying that people don't make the jump into the sport in the same scenario that I set up, just that it's going to be a low number.

[unksskis]

https://www.instagram.com/voodoowakeboarder/?hl=de

Wanley Fendrich - German Champion Wakeboarder

[kurtis500]

"I'm curious why we don't encourage a more diverse group of individuals to get into skiing. "

 

You make the tournament skiing 'world' appear inherently racist, or bias against people with a differnet skin color for NOT taking action. I really doubt thats the case, you may want to word it differently.

 

I've taken 3 african-american FAMILIES including kids out skiing, tubing and etc. over the years. They all enjoy it and we have a blast. 2 of them have boats, but for fishing. Its what they like more and they can throw a rope out behind it whenever they want.

 

There are a lot of organizations already like Big Brothers & Big Sisters, the YMCA and etc. that want people like you to pick up a group of kids and show them a good time on the lake. Spend some time teaching them a new sport or hobby and get their focus on mentally and physically healthy activity. More inner city kids have no father or role model to teach them life and they LOVE having someone take the time to teach them and be patient. I spend 1 week - 2 times a year at youth camps with kids so I practice what I preach. Most top athletes learn from a young age, so investing in the youth now will grow the sport more later.

[The_MS]

Golfing sucks

[loeweb]

Being an average (at best) skier that has never, and probably will never ski in a tournament, I personally love the virtual slalom skiing app. It can be used by anyone in open water and can at least give a starting point for anyone to see where they are before hitting the course and getting completely humiliated.

The biggest thing I see as a free skier, is getting young people up on skis, and teaching them to slalom, when ready, before "learning" to surf or anything else. Not that those other disciplines do not hold merit, but once a kid gets the feel for the speed, and starts attacking buoys, surfing and tubing take a backseat.

[RichardDoane]

People find this sport because of a mental condition (type A, OCD, or otherwise addictive personality) and the enjoyment of competition that’s mostly personal. As long as I have a core group of skiers I’m not worrying about “growing “ the sport because it doesn’t make me any $$$.

[Mateo_Vargas]

Planting the seed is easy. Consistently adding the water seems to be the hard part.

[jimbrake]

@Mateo_Vargas - you live in an area of California with one of the most diverse populations in a diverse state. Do you see any evidence of that at the park? I'm not referring specifically to the bathrooms, so don't go there.

[hbfs]

Most of these replies manage to completely ignore the question being asked.

 

@Mateo_Vargas is absolutely right. Planting the seed is easy. Consistently adding the water when you're not in the "in" community is hard.

 

Let me share my own experience:

 

After I had the seed planted, I still didn't know anyone near me with a boat, who lived by a lake, or who waterskied.

 

So I show up to a few local club meetings. It is intimidating, because it is immediately apparently that I am an outsider. This is still true today. I am not white. People always stare and wonder why I am there. The elephant in the room is usually never brought up. It is not uncommon that people will take initiative to introduce themselves to the other newcomers but don't want to be the first person to talk to the Chinese guy. I usually make the first introductions. I've come to understand that many people do not have much experience interacting with a Chinese-American outside of a work, retail, or restaurant setting. It is usually pretty awkward at first.

 

Waterskiers are a friendly and well-intentioned bunch. But these initial interactions are especially intimidating and uncomfortable if you are new to the sport. It is difficult to integrate with constant reminders that you don't quite fit in. This is compounded when your friends understand through your experiences that almost everyone in the sport is white. It is the "weird" hobby that you have. You have to really, really want it to become part of the community.

 

Things are easier now. Now I can speak the lingo. People warm up to me after they see me make a few turns on the water.

[hbfs]

The sport is not too expensive or too technical or too niche to draw interest from diverse people. Take a look at the burgeoning waterski community in South Korea, for instance. There are great skiers out there.

 

I think the biggest issue is access. People who look like me aren't joining the sport because they don't know anyone doing it and don't understand the appeal of it, not because it wouldn't be fun for someone who isn't white. Waterskiing isn’t a sport where you can buy a set of clubs or a pair of skis and go learn on your own. You HAVE to know people.

 

If you want to encourage (and not just want) a more diverse crowd, you will need to foster it through outreach and patience.

[hbfs]

@jimbrake,

 

@Mateo_Vargas was a huge part of fostering my interest in course skiing as a learning skier. I admit that it did not come easy for me and I really struggled with it. But I do remember his willingness to be patient, encouraging, and welcoming.

 

I miss those park days. Hopefully, I get the chance to swing by next summer when I visit town!

[ForrestGump]

The time to be thinking about this was 25 years ago. At this point, the train has left the station. Instead we let the public clubs be replaced by private lakes. And with the move away from the public lakes we let urban America encroach those lakes because we were no longer there. When you abstain from protecting your turf, gets what happens. You lose it. With private lakes being the norm, it breeds the idea of insider vs outsider. It comes down to insiders having investment $s involved and outsiders having no investment $s involved. That has zero to do with race, color or creed and everything to do with the inherent human thought to protect what they invest in. "Why should I open it up to people who risked nothing, when I risked everything I own?" While you will find pockets of people that are open to letting outsiders in, it's never going to be widescale. So again, what is the definition of growth? I've still not seen that actually defined. And a side note..... we should technically blame all of this on Horton. His family started us down this road. Horton is the devil!

[ForrestGump]

And I'm not saying there is a right or wrong answer here. Or that anyone is right or wrong in this discussion. But fixing skiing is a lot like the question of the chicken or the eg.

[RichardDoane]

Does it really need "growing" ? I'm pretty happy with the water skiing world that I live in

[rockdog]

I kind of agree @RichardDoane though someone will chime in and tell us that if we don't expand, we'll have no tournament ski boats to use soon or ski companies will dial back innovation due to lack of sales.

[Clydesdale]

I live on a public lake, and now that I’m retired I’m trying to get the kids on the lake into competitive skiing. Two observations. First, as we all know, skiing the course is hard. People that try it on their own can get discouraged and quit. In the spirit of “pass the handle”, I would argue it often takes a passionate slalom skier to create another passionate skier. Both in terms of technical instruction and motivation. Second, competition is a great motivator for most kids. BUT, as someone previously said, a real tournament can be intimidating and even discouraging for a true newbie. So, this summer I asked the lake kids if they’d like to hold an informal tournament on our lake. Newbies vs newbies. They jumped at the idea so we’ve got our first annual event planned next summer. No AWSA membership required. Mini course rules similar to the old INT novice format. No entry fee. Loaner skis available. Hardware provided to all participants. I bet at least a few of them get the bug. (Please no snowflake comments. I’m running this with some experienced skiers and I do understand the potential liability). I know this doesn’t address the diversity question, but maybe a small step towards interest/inclusion generally.

[hbfs]

@Clydesdale love what you're doing to pass the handle. I love all outreach I see to new skiers.

 

This actually clearly highlights part of how the sport has remained remarkably undiverse. The outreach to the lake kids is awesome and an easy win, but I bet there are few diverse kids that live on/by the lake. To be very clear, I think this is absolutely awesome and I see nothing wrong with what you're doing.

 

But, without minimizing everything that you're doing - if the community has a desire to grow a more diverse community, outreach will have to happen elsewhere beyond the lake kids, and it will take concertedly more effort.

 

Whether or not a diverse community is something that the community at large wants and is willing to put time to develop is not up to me to say. Just putting out my thoughts as to why the lack of diversity exists.

 

Cost has been brought up, but I don't think it's the main barrier. I joined the sport working my first full-time job out of college, not making much money. There are many people who aren't white with disposable income and expensive hobbies. They've just spent their income and time elsewhere.

 

 

Edit: Not really sure what there is to disagree with in my post. If you think that something I've said here is wrong, please speak up and we can drive the conversation.

[RichardDoane]

@rockdog - people just need to ask their area rep. in order to use older boats in a tournament (sorry to be off topic)

 

@Clydesdale - you Rock !

[scuppers]

Please give this whole thread a rest! Once and for all time.

[DW]

@hbfs - you are more than welcome to grab a set or three behind my boat, only requirement, you need and want to share the steering wheel and throttle and demonstrate a willingness to develop in to a capable driver (since every skier needs a good one). I'll bet most here will say exactly the same thing.

[MillerTime38]

@hbfs you seem to keep bringing up that most skiers are white and it somehow is our fault that the waterskiing community is not more diverse in the US, like we are excluding everyone but white people ??‍♂️ I haven’t heard you bring up any actual ideas on how to bring more ethnic diversity into waterskiing just complain that it’s all white people

 

I currently live in Japan and guess what all the skiers that I have met are all Japanese....

[hbfs]

@MillerTime38, I beg to differ. I never said either of those things.

 

No, I don't think it is your fault or anyone's fault that the community is not more diverse in the US.

 

No, I don't think everyone except white people are purposely being excluded.

 

No, I don't even have an opinion on whether this is something that needs to change.

 

Please be fair. The only thing I have done is share my own unique personal experiences entering the sport and my own opinion on barriers to entry of minority demographics in the USA. Obviously, I love this sport and this community enough to spend time on this forum, right? If I share my own relevant experiences and you choose to dismiss them as complaints, that is up to you.

 

I don't think anyone is to blame. I don't think anyone is at fault. I don't even mean to be abrasive. I understand that many people feel uncomfortable discussing diversity and race, especially with a minority in the room, and prefer to avoid it. I don't really have the option to ignore that I am different in the waterski community.

 

All I am trying to do here is foster thoughtful discussion and offer the perspective of a someone from the "more diverse group of individuals" that is being discussed in the original post.

 

Isn't that what this thread was opened to discuss?

[MillerTime38]

@hbfs I am not dismissing your experiences but more questioning your motive, think about your audience, take a look at the scorebooks, I would bet that 80% of the waterski community is 50+ Or their kids. They could honestly care less about how diverse the hobby is that they participate in. Would it be awesome if a more diverse group of people participated, sure but i am not sure this forum is going to generate a lot of earth shattering ideas because this idea of growing the sport has been beaten like a dead horse around here.

When I go down to the gym and play basketball I don’t question why I am the only white person there

[hbfs]

Let me remind you that I am not the one that posed this question. I have no "motive".

 

I don't want to turn this thread into a back and forth about me. Just offering my perspective as someone being discussed and asked about in the question being posed.

[OldboyII]

I am affraid this is a classical catch-22.

We want to make this sport more popular in order to make it more available.

But the more demand for this activity the less available it becames.

Just because of natural restrictions - not enough water surfaces and huge number of obstacles to develop more.

 

The world is driving to sports that could accomodate as many participants as possible on the square as little as possible.

Probably the principle "One huge lake for one skier at the time" can not be welcomed by growing population of the earth