2021 is my last year of USAWS

[Hallpass]

@jayski. Probably some truth in what you say. Although many states have passed tort reform which has curtailed certain liabilities (for now), plaintiffs lawyers will test those laws and find ways around them. Regardless, as @klindy suggested, it would be very difficult for any sports organization in the US with minor age participants to obtain insurance, or adequate insurance, if the organization refuses to participate in the SafeSport program.

[The_MS]

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/83/83a6879155e5a9ad9eb86310cfc2135349ded6bc9f9364a1a4a5899f030daa7e.jpg

 

[dave2ball]

@The_MS they won’t buy you dinner first.

[skidawg]

Safe sport dropped the ball big time in our little pond....so...I'll pass on that and a usaski membership from here on out. But thanks to @Horton I can still keep in touch and make fun of @The_MS & @Bruce_Butterfield !

[Bruce_Butterfield]

@skidawg bite me. ?

[aupatking]

Boy Scouts of America went down this very road with all leaders required to take the training. In honesty, some of it was good information. Did it help the organization? The biggest positive organization for boys in the US went through the biggest bankruptcy in non-profit organization history because of the bad still being bad. Training and all.

Every member? I’m late for the party on this thread. I don’t think I would feel this is beyond overkill if it were required for coaches and even judges, but all members? I just don’t see this helping. Not even from a liability perspective. It seems to open us all up to more liability. “You were trained and you didn’t see it” is the argument I see in the future being opened up as a liability against every member.

[Mrs_MS]

If I decide to renew my membership, when does this Safe Sport sexual predator training need to be done?

[LeonL]

I think January 1 2022.

[Mrs_MS]

Ugh

[Mastercrafter]

.

[MattP]

Q: What happens if I do not comply with the SafeSport Training requirement?

 

Those who do not complete the required SafeSport training within 30 days of joining/renewing their USA Water Ski & Wake Sports membership, will be ineligible to participate in USA Water Ski & Wake Sports activities, including tournaments and competitions, and will have a flagged membership until the training is completed.

 

Q: What happens if I join or renew my membership at an event?

 

If you join or renew your membership at an event, you will have 30 days from the day you join or renew to complete the required SafeSport training. Scores attained at an event will count. If you do not complete the required SafeSport training after the 30-day grace period, you will be ineligible to compete and scores attained at an event will not be counted until the required SafeSport training is completed.

 

https://www.teamusa.org/usa-water-ski/safe-sport/safesport-faq

[ski6jones]

As that is written if your next renewal is in 2023 you could ski next year without taking the training.

[Dirt]

I have been thinking a lot about all these bureaucratic problems with USAWS. It is too bad we cannot start AWSA over again by itself.

I watched all the incredibly selfless and talented volunteers and officials at the Western Regionals and Nationals and was so impressed.

These people are so amazing and we are lucky to have them in this sport.

They worked from daybreak to way past dark each day for no pay while we talk about how the organization could be better. I know we need to talk about it but I want them to know I see a small portion of their hard work and dedication and I appreciate it.

I was going to start with Jeff Surdej and name the workers I saw but I don’t want to leave anyone out. Jeff was still working his ass off when I left the site Thursday night at 10pm. He was running around when I arrived at 6am Friday. I am certain he didn’t sleep much.

Thank you

 

 

[The_MS]

I have been one of those people many times as event organizer, Sr judge and set up man. My time is up and I’m sure they won’t miss me

[Dirt]

@The_MS you are missed. It was always super fun skiing with you and your wife.

[RichardDoane]

it's people like @The_MS that we need to keep in this sport. making extra requirements to satisfy "insurance needs" that drive the good people away should be frowned upon

[Wish]

Have no dog in the fight but curious as to how this may impact the college water ski scene. We’ve all heard the stories. I could see potential for lives being destroyed. Or it getting so regulated that it becomes not fun anymore and student skiers walk away. Maybe I’m out in left field on this one as I was never a collegiate skier. Those that have been...what did you see that you would now almost be required to report??

[lpskier]

“I see nothing! I know nothing!”

 

Sincerely,

 

Sgt. Schulz

Wehrmacht

Stalag 13

Deutschland

[BigGerald3]

Ah, Guten Tag General Burkhalter!

[gjohnson]

@The_MS rocks. A long time ago they put him in the boat for boys 2 at regionals. The event lasted forever. Needless to say, we needed to get him some IPA stat after he got out of the boat.

[BraceMaker]

@wish did you witness something you should report? Whats been reported to you that you havent been willing to dicuss?

 

Thats an oddly phrased objection if the college scene is rapey shouldn't the sport demand that be addressed.

 

Just stating that safesport makes college sports a difficult position in ways acknowledges the base problem but as most people enter college at or near 18 years of age atleast they are of the age of consent.

 

But... if say a professional staff of a manufaturer of boats or skis or ski ropes were to put on a clinic and then engage in consentual sex with said individual it would be... not illegal. But maybe only unprofessional depending in that persons employment.

 

A doctor cannot boink a patient for instance even if they are if age. Thats always ethically wrong in medicine.

 

What about a ski coach? Does being paid change that relationship or not? If you are 21 and shes 18 but you are paid to coach/mentor the individual does that change the dynamics of that relationship? Safesport would state that within USAWS such a relationship would be similarly unethical.

 

What if the individual is a talented female and the guy is sponsored and knows the owner of a ski brand and a boat brand and is chummy with a dealer and btw maybe can help you make a few bucks by getting you a a ski sponsor if you... well shucks..... Blow him.

 

At what point does this become problematic? At what point would you interceed if it was your daughter or neice.

 

But you know college girls will do what college girls do. But what is the line the sport should draw in the sand and not pass and condemn those who do? Have we not reached it? Are broken facial bones acceptable?

 

not judging but honestly where is the line.

 

This forum trends towards boys will be boys or look at all that @ss girls are showing these days, or even I rememeber back when I was 18 back then 13 was fair game.

 

 

But how about the numerous accounts shared over the past few years by some of the most popular female skiers in the sport?

 

 

 

 

[Bruce_Butterfield]

Random thoughts on the passing scene [headline courtesy of Thomas Sowell]

 

The only people who will miss @The_MS when he quits USAWS will be those of us who make fun of him. Oh well there is always Horton and Dirt…..

 

The best and most underrated Sgt Schultz quote is “back back back back back…”. I use it all the time on my dogs, kids and wife (!?!) and none of them have a clue what I mean. Sigh. I’m getting old.

 

Collegiate skiers and Safe Sport training?!? YGBSM. It’s next to impossible to get some of them to fill out an entry form or enter online. An additional hour of BS (cough) training to join a ski team/club will kill collegiate skiing. That’s the way to grow the sport.

 

Did anyone see the new SI swimsuit edition with the trans model in the burka? I skipped it too.

[jgills88]

For everyone asking how it effects collegiate, the Midwest (probably nationwide, but im not sure) has required safesport training from at least 2 members on every team for years. When I was at UC, most of us were trained and we just sent in the two most up to date certificates. Absolutely no impact on recruitment or retention of skiers. It even helped a bit as we could group up and do it together. Long story short, as far as sport growth, taking the training has no negative impact. Those of you thinking (hoping?) that this will stifle growth at that level are plain wrong.

 

For asking how it effects the "fun" at tournaments. It hasn't stopped anything in the line of good ol' collegiate waterski fun. What it has limited is the inappropriate contact that happens at the tournaments themselves (during the day, not nighttime shenanigans). I've seen the staggering difference in how people react to unwanted contact and how it is handled. No escalation to a safesport report, but people know how to respond effectively and are confident in their ability to do so or get help.

 

College is no place to draw your line in the sand. The NCWSA has been ahead of the curve on this issue. Hell, MCWSA teams unanimously (and anonymously) voted to include active SafeSport investigations as a cause for suspending a skier from participating in tournaments. As a whole, we want this. We want to protect our skiers, and the sport that we love because at the end of the day, an extra bit of paperwork will not kill it, allowing inappropriate actions from anyone will. That's what drives people away en masse.

 

-side note, I personally think that the Midwest's attitude towards safesport is a good indicator of collegiate as a whole based on the fact that there's 35-40 Midwest teams (the range is due to a couple of teams being one person strong, starting up, or folding), and there are 24 teams combined in the West, SAC, and SCR.-

 

 

[The_MS]

@lpskier

 

 

[The_MS]

@BraceMaker I think there is a pro skier that married her coach.

[VONMAN]

Call me old fashion but it's the job of the Parents to raise, love, teach, guide and watch over your child. To become good adults, it's a tough job. But that's what you sigh up for when you have children. Our son is now 45 and We are very proud.

Safe Sport has no long term interest, they are there to collect money and punish after the fact. It's your job teach good morals and watch over and guide them through life. Your the Parent not their friend. It's a tough job, but very Rewarding.

You will recognize when can change from Parent to Friend!

[Wish]

@VONMAN Your not old fashioned. Perhaps out of touch with reality. Parents of today are not the parents we were or the parents we had. There are many acceptions but in the decades that I’ve been in the profession I’m in, parenting skills have been circling the drain for some time and only getting worse. Parenting is hard and I see far to many parents not up to the task or just taking whatever easy rought they can get away with. Put the kid in front of a screen as a “babysitter” for example. Single parent homes as another. Way to many factors to just blankety say it’s up to the parents. It just isn’t anymore. And that’s sad.

[ski6jones]

So we are now resigned to the notion that parents are excused when they don't care for their children in a responsible way? I realize it's common that they do not, but it should not be accepted or normalized. Throwing up our collective hands about that is truly sad. I won't do it.

[bigtex2011]

@VONMAN I guess I'm different. I don't really see the harm in SafeSport. I do agree with your statement "raise, love, teach, guide and watch over your child". But you son is nearly as old as me. He probably didn't grow up with the technology that today's child is exposed too. My 9 year old has had a school issued Ipad for 4 years. Her academy soccer team uses zoom and apps for soccer practice and updates on tournaments. So does her school. I think I do a decent job of parenting and steering, but the same technology that you and I are using didnt exist when you or your son were kids.

 

I get it. Some people feel like they are being told what to do. It's their choice to do whatever they want to continue competitive skiing. But for me, it's worth it. I get to see a lot of people at tourneys that I enjoy shooting the sh!! with.

 

That same choice that we currently have on wearing a mask on an airplane. I don't love that either. I've had covid and a shot. But I really don't want to drive to the east and west coast for work either. What about seatbelts, or paying your taxes, drinking or smoking. All choices right?

 

Maybe I'm dilutional. I want the best for all skiers kids. I consider the waterski community like a family. If this helped one kid, then it's worth it for me.

 

 

[MDB1056]

Agree with @ski6jones . The responsibility of parenting hasn't changed, only that far too many are not delivering on the requirements. Period.

If we keep this thread going down this path @Horton will zap us as not skiing related........

[markn]

Sorry, I am not subscribing to the "it takes a village" to raise kids. The farther away we get from demanding personal responsibility for ones actions and outcomes, the more the 'WOKE minority" wins. Why the hell should the majority of people be dictated to by a small minority? This is absurd. The "factors" leading to poor outcomes, in the majority of instances are self imposed by poor decision making. I am not nor is anyone else responsible for those outcomes. Actions should and do have consequences. I sure as hell do not need training by any institution to "teach me" how to be a decent, contributing member of society or to know right from wrong. I was taught by my parents and frankly, some pretty damn good instruction. I am still with @The_MS on this.

[bigtex2011]

@markn I'd be curious to know if you feel like people that don't agree with you are "woke minority" How do know your opinions in the majority. Was there a survey that I missed. If so, I apologize.

[Wish]

@ski6jones

 

Resigned? No. Is that becoming more and more of an issue..yes. Is there an easy answer...no. I did my part and raised a child into a responsable adult that will without question be a great parent. I’d say the vast majority of folks on this forum do the same. I’d like to say we are the majority but after 25yrs of seeing the tide change, I feel we are not. Does it take a village...at this point as much as it pains me to say...yes. Kids do not come with a manuals (they should) and so many parents want their kids to like them they do not give them much needed boundaries. So often I see kids finding boundaries when then get to school age and just struggle. Some overcome. Others do not. Again, there is no silver bullet like just be a better parent. It’s going to have to be a multi directional approach to solve. To me SafeSport is just another outcome of poor parenting skills that get passed on from one generation to the next. It’s not helping that government is the new parent and parents are incentivized to use it as such. Backwards thinking. So now government will keep your kids safe from sexual assault with SafeSport. It’s all just a little nuts and very backwards. Not saying it’s not necessary, but am saying it’s sad it has come to this .

[The_MS]

“if it saves just one” the biggest manipulative statement of all time. If you want to persuade, you must use facts and reason.

Let’s ban smoking that will save at least 1

Lower the speed limit to 5 mph

Let’s require all Americans to annual mental health evaluations or be institutionalized to prevent suicide

Let’s ban booze to prevent 1 failed liver

Let’s ban sugar to save 1 from diabetes

 

I love ya @bigtex2011 but can’t agree on just 1

 

[Killer]

@ms there are speed limits, bans on smoking and limitations on selling alcohol.

 

You're comparing entirely unreasonable restrictions (5mph???) with a 30 min quiz. You've owned yourself with that last comment.

 

The world is changing, whether we like it or not. Our sport is a backwater activity that can use some modernization and professionalism to sustain itself, let alone grow.

 

There's a few people here that don't want to see you go, but your protest will undoubtedly fall on deaf ears. There are more productive ways to make change. Your choice.

 

 

[bigtex2011]

@The_MS I understand your argument. Much love to you too. I'm really not for rules for everything and everyone that's still standing. I understand why people don't want to do it and I support that for them. For me it'd not a big deal.

 

We could drink many cold beverages and debate till the cows come home and still agree to disagree. It's doesn't make anyone a bad person for having a different opinion. It doesn't make them a "woke" person or a right or left winger or a bad parent or a great parent. In the end we all do what we can live with and hopefully have fun doing it.

 

peace and love

 

cs

 

 

 

[The_MS]

@Killer like I stated, facts and reason.

[buechsr]

Without hindsight being 20-20, who would have thought that the Boy Scouts would miss the number of predators they did? Yet, 82,000....think about that...82,000 sexual abuse claims were filed in the bankruptcy proceedings as of last year, and the majority occurred long ago. There are many great men who devoted themselves to Scouts and its leadership. They weren't complicit. They're sickened by what took place. Yet an entire football stadium slipped past the vast majority of good-intentioned yet naive volunteers....not to mention, parents! Were the parents of those 82,000 failures? How could that be? Reading myriad posts in this thread, parenting was better "back then" and this current push for awareness is a result of lazy ill-equipped millenials to parent. BS. It's not millenial parents being lazy, it's the opposite. Some of you won't be able to accept that paradigm, but it's the truth.

 

This isn't some new issue, like a fly on your burger to be swatted away with arrogance that "I know what to look for" as has been expressed in this thread. This has been a pervasive issue for decades. Society and especially sports have repeatedly failed to shine a sufficiently bright light on this out of embarrassment and cowardice. And some of "us" are not just internally or privately, but publicly pushing back on our governing body for their requirement that we spend 60-90 minutes understanding how it works and to (hopefully, God-forbid) stymie a life-changing event for a kid? It's really surprising to see the pushback, and it seems obvious that those talking the loudest haven't even watched the course. Is it riveting? No. Is it revolutionary? Not really. But, it's a start. It's one step to be part of a group that can collectively commit to awareness which will hopefully contribute in some small (or large) way in the prevention of a potentially illegal, immoral, and disgusting situation in our sport or another. It probably takes some of you longer to put the boat away than do this. Spare the excuse that this is just the last straw in the way USAWS has forced things, not listened to members, etc. This is an issue unto itself, and way more important than any discussion that may not have gone someone's way at a regional meeting. These issues ruin lives. Officer elections and USAWS politics don't. We cannot let shoulder chips and pride outweigh the very important calling to at least in some small way help protect our next generation.

 

Kennedy was before my time, but his words on what we can do for our country, and not its inverse, remain valid. Insert USAWS for country and it's no less true, no matter how long your volunteer and skiing resume may be.

 

I'd ask anyone legitimately thinking about quitting USAWS to reconsider. Let's be on the right side of this issue for the next generation of skiers.

[ALPJr]

We’ll put @buechsr.

[jayski]

@The_MS @bigtex2011

 

Evening of Sept 18th @ the Wood...no holds barred lets sit on the shore and sort this Sh$t out

 

?

[bigtex2011]

@jayski I'll be sitting right where I always sit. next to the corn field :smiley:

[ForrestGump]

I've taken the SS course for 3 years due to being a USABMX coach. I get it for that. I just question the metrics that prove 1 kid is effected by participants taking it. I doubt if there are metrics because everything with USAW is a kneejerk reaction to something. Not only that, it can open anyone who has taken it to blame for not recognizing an infraction. That's one thing when you're a person running an event, a coach, an official. It's a completely other thing when you're just a guy showing up to participate.

 

@wish just because parents today do not raise their kids with the same oversight, does not mean they shouldn't. They don't get a pass in my eyes. Their child is still their business. Now, if any participant should be consuming it, it should be the college kids. Old enough to be out of their parents grasp but not old enough to have wisdom. Maybe there'd be fewer women in their 30s admitting to being molested in college if we did something meaningful like that.

 

@BraceMaker I too know people in gymnastics as my stepkids were on the path before they and and that mean lady that tells me what to do got smart. I'm sorry but I saw a lot of parents putting wayyy to much faith in other people and not paying attention to what their children were doing and saying. With fathers living in other states while mothers were here in Houston with their kid so the kid could train. Dropping them off at the gym and going to a coffee shop to work. Or getting on their laptop or tablet in the viewing room and not having a clue what was happening. Or the kid living here with a coach while the parents were in California. Even after it was coming out about Nasser, there were still teenage girls living here on their own with coaches and gym owners. WTF are parents thinking.

[jayski]

@bigtex2011

[MillerTime38]

So Safe Sport has convinced people that if they take this short training video they will help prevent predators from taking advantage of vulnerable adolescence….or has safe sport convinced companies that if they require this training video for all participants that it will reduce their exposure to lawsuits when this does occur within their sport. Considering that the top male athlete within the sport was accused of being a sexual predator which I am sure sent a shock wave through the community and then coincidentally within a year or two this requirement comes down to participate in tournaments… sorry not a believer in coincidences. I haven’t been a member since 2019 since PCSing to Japan but if this is the world I am coming back to in a couple years count me out

 

As a parent of twin 3 year olds I don’t ever plan on putting my kids on travel teams it’s all just weird to me. Play sports within your school and community it helps out everyone. This world has become every kid can be a professional athlete if parents spend enough money when in reality the parents were just conned by a “coach” that sold them a pipe dream.

[Ali]

@buechsr I just wish I could give that post more than 1 awesome!!

[The_MS]

Imagine that, sit down for 90 minutes and turn into an expert. Can’t wait to look back in a few years and laugh about some of the posts on this thread.

 

[klindy]

So @The_MS (and/or others) let me get this straight. You're convinced that SS training wont help everyone who may be vulnerable and therefore think it's worthless for everyone? You're offended somehow that it's mandatory and you feel that it's the parents obligation to raise, protect and isolate their own kids in an environment with more than a few examples where that's not being done? So, since it's someone else's responsibility it's ok for you to ignore the potential?

 

SafeSport isn't going to solve the entire problem. It isn't going to prevent every lawsuit nor will it become a substitute for being raised in a healthy loving environment. But I haven't heard even one alternative - only sarcasm and disdain towards those who are trying to improve what we have.

[jayski]

@klindy not being rude or derogatory but out of curiosity does it matter whether the membership or any singular member has a solution that is better?

 

I say this because I am fairly positive it is probably insurance companies with lawyers deciding and pretty much mandating these steps. Good or bad the organizations and their membership in today's world have little to no say in things such as this...if this statement is false please clarify for me and tell me you (AWSA) honestly had the option not to go forth without ANY type of program.

 

In Canada the Gov't mandated all National sport organizations (NSO) to have a program, but they threw stupid amounts of money to NSO's to create and facilitate a program, which most just piggybacked off of existing ones and used the money for things not relevant...With Waterski Canada all coach's and officials need training, not the complete membership...

[The_MS]

@klindy It should be optional not mandatory. It’s that simple. I don’t have time to get into parenting issues and have posted nothing about it. You said Safesport isn’t going to solve the entire problem, what is the entire problem?

 

[RazorRoss3]

The entire issue is predatory behavior and sexual abuse in sports both for minors and adults. There is no single tool available to the human race that unilaterally solves that entire issue. Safesport training is one tool to address as much of the problem as it can. Like every single issue, education is key to understanding, understanding is key to prevention.