Baller ghutch Posted March 4, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 4, 2022 And their price is exactly why I will be ordering one soon. $190 for a rope? Sorry.. I'm out. I doubt I'll feel much difference being a mid 35 skier so definitely going to give them a chance. Thanks for coming into the market S Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Cnewbert Posted March 4, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 4, 2022 My next line will be an S line. While their ropes are good, my experience with ML customer service is terrible, so I won't buy another product from them in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller als2104 Posted March 6, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 6, 2022 Purchased an S Line. Easy process, quick delivery, and appears to be a quality rope with measurements within .01+-. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller DavidN Posted March 6, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 6, 2022 Same here, got it today. Great Service so far! Went with the “S-Series”. Looks and feels like a quality product. Even came with a rep sheet with measurements of every single section. True test of course will be on the water. Curious to see how it compares to my ML optimized ropes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 17, 2022 Administrators Share Posted March 17, 2022 unboxing video is uploading to YouTube at this moment. impressed. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ghutch Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 well crap.. there goes the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted March 17, 2022 Supporting Member Share Posted March 17, 2022 @Sedge What can you tell us about how you achieve and measure accuracy? In an ideal world a rope would start within the allowed range at all lengths, and then settle to exactly correct over time. Of course, we don't live in an ideal world, but the accuracy of a rope throughout its lifetime is probably the single biggest factor for me. Much more important than price (within reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller wawaskr Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 Last ML handle I purchased, they just put it in a FedEx plastic envelope and let the worst shipping company on the planet beat the hell out of it all the way to the West Coast. So, we sell handles for $200, but we are too cheap to even put it in a box to protect it for shipping to the customer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 Wow, it has been awesome the past few weeks. Exciting to see the interest from so many skiers. For those interested we are making progress on the handles and as soon as more information is available to share we will put it out there. Unfortunately we have no future plans to tackle the boat market. @Than_Bogan Thank you for asking, this has been the most time consuming parts (apart from selecting the correct yarn formulas). On the measurement side we used certified metric tape measures and scale for measuring under tension. To ensure consistency all loops 15' off - 41' off are made in a jig/fixture and the final section is made and measured from a fixed point as well. We measure both individual loops and overall length. For tolerances we follow the rulebook, I believe page 89 gives the exact tolerances for ropes. All of our ropes should fall in tolerance in the (-) side when brand new as they will stretch no matter what as they are used. While testing multiple ropes, we found consistently that ropes above 0 but still in tolerance when new ended up out of tolerance. We had multiple skiers with a lot of sets. The 32' off and shorter will more often stretch more than 15', 22' and 28' and mainlines will stretch the most. If you were to measure our ropes they should consistently be a little short from 35' off and shorter such as they were in Horton's video. I agree in a perfect world all ropes would end up spot on +/-0 but if life is still left in a rope it will stretch more. For us ideally the rope starts in tolerance but a little short and as it's used will get as close to exact as capable and slightly long but in tolerance by the end of it's use. The trick here is determining a rope life as all skiers have a different opinion. For us we focus on the measurements and rope life to meet the tournament needs as that is were scores and records count. I hope this answers your question. You got the "rope geek" in me going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dave2ball Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @wawaskr was your handle damaged? Was the rope damaged? If so you should of put in a claim. ML can’t control what a shipping company does. Did you call ML and talk with them? Maybe boxes were not available? So before you give negative customer feed back on a public forum maybe you should do a little research as to what and why this happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporting Member Than_Bogan Posted March 17, 2022 Supporting Member Share Posted March 17, 2022 @Sedge Well that is literally the best possible answer! If that's not already prominent on your web page, I suggest you make it be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller wawaskr Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @dave2ball "cant control what a shipping company does"...what do you think they typically do? I believe basic common sense would apply to the vendor that ships, huh? The handle was damaged, but was usable, and quite frankly, life is too short to deal with the idiots at FedEx (been there, done that). I did contact ML about the issue, and expressed by concern about sending handles in plastic FE bags. I was told to mention it to them the next time I order something, and they will give me a discount (but without any documentation)...so there you go. This is a factual data point, so do with it as you may, but thanks for your advice about doing some research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller vtjc Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @Sedge do you offer training loops such as an extra loop between 15' and 22' or 22' and 28'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dave2ball Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @wawaskr The reason I asked is because your post is very vague as to what was done on either end. I have not had any issues with them. Personally I wouldn’t t let one bad experience steer me away from good product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Andre Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 It's not the bad customer experience as much as the insane price to pay for practicing with the same rope you'll get in tournament that will steer customers away IMO. 190$. My ski finish in 16.95 but my ass is out of tolerance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @vtjc yes we do add training loops on request. It is a another option we have to add. Our website is due from some updating this weekend. It will be an extra $5 per training loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted March 17, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 17, 2022 @wawskr , etc. You don't need to bash MasterLine, they make great stuff and prior to them there was crap everywhere. Not a fan of the optimized, but now we have a choice. I’m glad there is apparently another quality choice out there. I've had the same handle for 15 years, learn how to restring it and how to do a deep water start and you don't have to drop $200/yr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller ToddL Posted March 18, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2022 I have seen tournaments where brand new ropes are "stretched" the days before. @Sedge said, " For us ideally the rope starts in tolerance but a little short and as it's used will get as close to exact as capable and slightly long but in tolerance by the end of it's use." So, would make sense that these ropes should not be used when "new" at a tournament? Just a random thought while reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller MI3Eventer Posted March 18, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2022 @ToddL whenever I use a new rope for a tournament it generally get's used that week during practice or at least a couple sets before tournament. No lines fresh out the box should be used the day of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller_ MISkier Posted March 18, 2022 Baller_ Share Posted March 18, 2022 We put at least 5-10 sets on our ropes across skiers of differing capabilities before they are used in a tournament. We make sure at least one set has multiple 15 off passes as well. The worst slalom equipment I own is between my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members brettmainer Posted March 18, 2022 Members Share Posted March 18, 2022 It would be nice if S Line and Masterline offered deductive pricing options for a rope starting at 28' off. Maybe three (say $5ea or similar) possible deducts if one wishes to purchase a rope that starts at 22, 28 or 32. Tournament organizers still need full length ropes, but when I get a new rope every year, I take off the red and orange lengths and toss them in a pile to be used as dog leashes and boat ties. I am to the point where I don't need any more dog leashes and boat ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 18, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2022 @brettmainer we will do that for customers. We just have to add it as an option. We will do a lot of custom stuff just shoot us a message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 18, 2022 Administrators Share Posted March 18, 2022 I ran six 32s today with the "S" rope. It is the stiffest. Felt fine - normal I guess. Tomorrow I will ski the gray Competition ropes. Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Mastercrafter Posted March 18, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2022 @Horton Scott emailed me and said the S is most comparable to Optimized 2.0, so… softest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 18, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 18, 2022 @Horton Did you ski with the the rope that had the black mainline or the white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 18, 2022 Administrators Share Posted March 18, 2022 white ( am i confused again? ) Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 19, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 19, 2022 @Horton no worries, I sent you quite a few. You skied with the R3 which is the stiffest. For those curious. Competition series are gray mainlines and are the middle between stiffest and softest. S Series have the black mainlines and are the softest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller pcmcon729 Posted March 19, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 19, 2022 Decent quality, American made AND inexpensive, I will be buying one for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dbaconaz Posted March 19, 2022 Author Baller Share Posted March 19, 2022 ordered mine!! cant wait to use it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Moskier3ev Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 I purchased an S rope. I put 45lbs on it and it measured perfect. Left it with tension at 45 for 2 hours it was 8-10cm long. I would like to see them for tournament use take 6 to 8 cm out of the mainline and a couple of cm out of 16 and 14.25. Most ML optimized 2 I have measured are short out of the box and when there used they're right on. I am a TC. I thought the quality and service were spot on. Can’t wait to try it tomorrow and compare to my ML. My 2cents, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dbutcher Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 Jeff, your ideas make sense to me. You can bring that rope into tolerance by inserting a short piece (or pieces) of scrap rope with a fid inside the S line at the appropriate place(s)? Do you recommend that? Does leaving a rope (any rope) under tension for 2 hours stretch a rope more than tournament use? Rope load in tournament or practice slalom skiing is more intense but brief and intermittent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 @Moskier3ev we just sent you a message. Thank you for the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 @dbutcher if you have a fid and you know how to insert a piece of rope, why not loosen the knot and shorten the section that is out of tolerance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 20, 2022 Administrators Share Posted March 20, 2022 i believe a proper TC would always adjust a rope by loosening the knots Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dbutcher Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 I am not a TC and had never even thought about loosening a knot to shorten a rope. I would have to learn how to do that. Inserting a piece of rope is quick, easy, and effective. My question is does the insertion cause wear on the rope from the inside. There must be a reason that TC's loosen the knot to adjust. What is that reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 20, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 20, 2022 The feedback on has been great. It does appear Jeff may have received a rope we did not properly stretch prior to measurement. TC's do seem to adjust ropes as need, our goal is that all of our ropes will be slightly short so that no adjusting is needed and ropes stay in tolerance the whole time. I would prefer to have to adjust a short rope opposed to making a long rope shorter. We will be doing more testing and if long term the ropes, mainline especially needs to be made shorter we will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller APB Posted March 21, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 21, 2022 I want to try one just because of the Masterline comments. @Sedge if they have taken notice... youre doing something right. I ski masterline currently.... i like masterline, however the pricing has gotten really high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller APB Posted March 21, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 21, 2022 @Sedge are there any major tournaments/ associations willing to pull with your lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Sedge Posted March 22, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2022 @APB our lines are being used in some smaller class C tournaments. We would love to our lines used in some of the big tournaments but know that will take some time as more skiers try them. We look forward to that day and are ready! We hope you get to try one soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted March 22, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2022 @dbutcher Inserting pieces of rope will take 1/4" out of a handle, and if cut diagonally should not effect wear, but 8-10 cm would need a new loop. Super easy to do, but a new rope shouldn't need that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller dbutcher Posted March 22, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2022 Thanks Drago. I haven't done one in a while, but my memory is that a 12" insert shortens the rope by 1". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RGilmore Posted March 22, 2022 Members Share Posted March 22, 2022 @Drago Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the amount of length taken out by inserting a piece of rope into the center depend entirely on on the length of the piece inserted? I mean, I'm sure that there is some length that specifically takes "1/4" out of a handle", but wouldn't a longer length take out more and a shorter length take out less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller skialex Posted March 22, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2022 It’s one thing to want to shorten a handle by 1/4” at a very last minute in order to compete and it’s a totally different thing to want to adjust the length of a tow rope. A rope out of tolerance… we are not talking about a 1/4”. I wouldn’t want to insert rope pieces in order to shorten my rope. It will make it thick and heavy. And the handle… in an emergency, you don’t really need tools or a fid… you loosen the knot by banging it on a solid smooth surface (you don’t want to damage the threads) and fish out the end rope using anything… a screwdriver, a pen, even just your hands and pull the rope in to shorten it. You don’t have to put the end rope back in, ski your round and do that later when you have access to some kind of a fid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted March 22, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 22, 2022 @RGilmore My point being that's a tremendous amount of rope to take up 10 cm and that's just not how it's done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RGilmore Posted March 23, 2022 Members Share Posted March 23, 2022 @Drago I understand everything @skialex said, and agree with almost all of it. However, I would never rely on the simple overhand knot of an end-splice loop alone, with the tail hanging out, to stand up to the forces in slalom - that's just asking for trouble, IMO. I was merely pointing out that there is a direct correlation between the length of an added core piece and how much it shortens the outer rope. I've been told that an inch of added core rope shortens the overall length by 1/4". It that's true, then a 4" piece would take up a whole inch. I imagine very few skiers arrive at a tournament with their favorite handle section, only to be told by the TC that their handle is an inch too long - but it that did happen, the obvious solution is to add that little 4-inch core piece... and never look back. I mean, how much heavier could it be? As always, the above is only IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Drago Posted March 24, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2022 Ok, whatever. You were talking about 10cm of mainline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RGilmore Posted March 24, 2022 Members Share Posted March 24, 2022 @Drago "Ok, whatever"? Did my wife tell you to say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Fastguy888 Posted March 24, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 24, 2022 I purchased the new S-Line Competition Series (Medium Stretch). Only had it out once for a few turns on open water; but it felt very nice. Came off a year old Syndicate rope. The added stretch was very nice, made it easier to stay connected to boat without slack and was easier on the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baller Weappa Posted March 26, 2022 Baller Share Posted March 26, 2022 Received a Competition Slalom Line, S Series from S-Lines. Easy to order, quick delivery, I made a change to my order (color) and they quickly responded to my change request. Line looks great, can't wait to try it out. A minor constructive feedback is the loops between lengths are on the small side. I prefer larger loops when dealing with putting the line on the pylon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Horton Posted March 26, 2022 Administrators Share Posted March 26, 2022 @Weappa you ski behind a Malibu? Goode ★ HO Syndicate ★ KD Skis ★ MasterCraft ★ PerfSki Radar ★ Reflex ★ S Lines ★ Stokes ★ Baller Video Coaching System Drop a dime in the can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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