S Lines

[ghutch]

And their price is exactly why I will be ordering one soon. $190 for a rope? Sorry.. I'm out. I doubt I'll feel much difference being a mid 35 skier so definitely going to give them a chance. Thanks for coming into the market S Line.

[Cnewbert]

My next line will be an S line. While their ropes are good, my experience with ML customer service is terrible, so I won't buy another product from them in any case.

[als2104]

Purchased an S Line. Easy process, quick delivery, and appears to be a quality rope with measurements within .01+-. Thanks.

[DavidN]

Same here, got it today. Great Service so far!

Went with the “S-Series”. Looks and feels like a quality product.

Even came with a rep sheet with measurements of every single section.

 

True test of course will be on the water.

Curious to see how it compares to my ML optimized ropes.

 

 

 

[Horton]

unboxing video is uploading to YouTube at this moment. impressed.

[ghutch]

well crap.. there goes the price.

[Than_Bogan]

@Sedge What can you tell us about how you achieve and measure accuracy? In an ideal world a rope would start within the allowed range at all lengths, and then settle to exactly correct over time.

 

Of course, we don't live in an ideal world, but the accuracy of a rope throughout its lifetime is probably the single biggest factor for me. Much more important than price (within reason).

[wawaskr]

Last ML handle I purchased, they just put it in a FedEx plastic envelope and let the worst shipping company on the planet beat the hell out of it all the way to the West Coast. So, we sell handles for $200, but we are too cheap to even put it in a box to protect it for shipping to the customer?

[Sedge]

Wow, it has been awesome the past few weeks. Exciting to see the interest from so many skiers. For those interested we are making progress on the handles and as soon as more information is available to share we will put it out there.

 

Unfortunately we have no future plans to tackle the boat market.

 

@Than_Bogan Thank you for asking, this has been the most time consuming parts (apart from selecting the correct yarn formulas). On the measurement side we used certified metric tape measures and scale for measuring under tension. To ensure consistency all loops 15' off - 41' off are made in a jig/fixture and the final section is made and measured from a fixed point as well. We measure both individual loops and overall length. For tolerances we follow the rulebook, I believe page 89 gives the exact tolerances for ropes. All of our ropes should fall in tolerance in the (-) side when brand new as they will stretch no matter what as they are used.

 

While testing multiple ropes, we found consistently that ropes above 0 but still in tolerance when new ended up out of tolerance. We had multiple skiers with a lot of sets. The 32' off and shorter will more often stretch more than 15', 22' and 28' and mainlines will stretch the most. If you were to measure our ropes they should consistently be a little short from 35' off and shorter such as they were in Horton's video. I agree in a perfect world all ropes would end up spot on +/-0 but if life is still left in a rope it will stretch more. For us ideally the rope starts in tolerance but a little short and as it's used will get as close to exact as capable and slightly long but in tolerance by the end of it's use. The trick here is determining a rope life as all skiers have a different opinion. For us we focus on the measurements and rope life to meet the tournament needs as that is were scores and records count.

 

I hope this answers your question. You got the "rope geek" in me going.

[dave2ball]

@wawaskr was your handle damaged? Was the rope damaged? If so you should of put in a claim. ML can’t control what a shipping company does. Did you call ML and talk with them? Maybe boxes were not available? So before you give negative customer feed back on a public forum maybe you should do a little research as to what and why this happened.

[Than_Bogan]

@Sedge Well that is literally the best possible answer! If that's not already prominent on your web page, I suggest you make it be!

[wawaskr]

@dave2ball

"cant control what a shipping company does"...what do you think they typically do? I believe basic common sense would apply to the vendor that ships, huh? The handle was damaged, but was usable, and quite frankly, life is too short to deal with the idiots at FedEx (been there, done that). I did contact ML about the issue, and expressed by concern about sending handles in plastic FE bags. I was told to mention it to them the next time I order something, and they will give me a discount (but without any documentation)...so there you go. This is a factual data point, so do with it as you may, but thanks for your advice about doing some research.

[vtjc]

@Sedge

do you offer training loops such as an extra loop between 15' and 22' or 22' and 28'?

[dave2ball]

@wawaskr

The reason I asked is because your post is very vague as to what was done on either end. I have not had any issues with them. Personally I wouldn’t t let one bad experience steer me away from good product.

[Andre]

It's not the bad customer experience as much as the insane price to pay for practicing with the same rope you'll get in tournament that will steer customers away IMO.

190$.

[Sedge]

@vtjc

yes we do add training loops on request. It is a another option we have to add. Our website is due from some updating this weekend. It will be an extra $5 per training loop.

[Drago]

@wawskr , etc. You don't need to bash MasterLine, they make great stuff and prior to them there was crap everywhere. Not a fan of the optimized, but now we have a choice.

I’m glad there is apparently another quality choice out there.

I've had the same handle for 15 years, learn how to restring it and how to do a deep water start and you don't have to drop $200/yr

[ToddL]

I have seen tournaments where brand new ropes are "stretched" the days before. @Sedge said, " For us ideally the rope starts in tolerance but a little short and as it's used will get as close to exact as capable and slightly long but in tolerance by the end of it's use."

 

So, would make sense that these ropes should not be used when "new" at a tournament?

 

Just a random thought while reading this thread.

[MI3Eventer]

@ToddL whenever I use a new rope for a tournament it generally get's used that week during practice or at least a couple sets before tournament. No lines fresh out the box should be used the day of.

[MISkier]

We put at least 5-10 sets on our ropes across skiers of differing capabilities before they are used in a tournament. We make sure at least one set has multiple 15 off passes as well.

[brettmainer]

It would be nice if S Line and Masterline offered deductive pricing options for a rope starting at 28' off. Maybe three (say $5ea or similar) possible deducts if one wishes to purchase a rope that starts at 22, 28 or 32.

 

Tournament organizers still need full length ropes, but when I get a new rope every year, I take off the red and orange lengths and toss them in a pile to be used as dog leashes and boat ties. I am to the point where I don't need any more dog leashes and boat ties.

[Sedge]

@brettmainer we will do that for customers. We just have to add it as an option. We will do a lot of custom stuff just shoot us a message.

[Horton]

I ran six 32s today with the "S" rope. It is the stiffest. Felt fine - normal I guess. Tomorrow I will ski the gray Competition ropes.

[Mastercrafter]

@Horton Scott emailed me and said the S is most comparable to Optimized 2.0, so… softest?

[Sedge]

@Horton Did you ski with the the rope that had the black mainline or the white?

[Horton]

white ( am i confused again? )

[Sedge]

@Horton no worries, I sent you quite a few. You skied with the R3 which is the stiffest.

 

For those curious. Competition series are gray mainlines and are the middle between stiffest and softest.

 

S Series have the black mainlines and are the softest.

[pcmcon729]

Decent quality, American made AND inexpensive, I will be buying one for sure.

[dbaconaz]

ordered mine!! cant wait to use it!!

[Moskier3ev]

I purchased an S rope. I put 45lbs on it and it measured perfect. Left it with tension at 45 for 2 hours it was 8-10cm long. I would like to see them for tournament use take 6 to 8 cm out of the mainline and a couple of cm out of 16 and 14.25. Most ML optimized 2 I have measured are short out of the box and when there used they're right on. I am a TC.

I thought the quality and service were spot on.

Can’t wait to try it tomorrow and compare to my ML.

 

My 2cents,

 

Jeff

[dbutcher]

Jeff, your ideas make sense to me. You can bring that rope into tolerance by inserting a short piece (or pieces) of scrap rope with a fid inside the S line at the appropriate place(s)? Do you recommend that? Does leaving a rope (any rope) under tension for 2 hours stretch a rope more than tournament use? Rope load in tournament or practice slalom skiing is more intense but brief and intermittent.

[Sedge]

@Moskier3ev we just sent you a message. Thank you for the feedback.

[skialex]

@dbutcher if you have a fid and you know how to insert a piece of rope, why not loosen the knot and shorten the section that is out of tolerance?

[Horton]

i believe a proper TC would always adjust a rope by loosening the knots

[dbutcher]

I am not a TC and had never even thought about loosening a knot to shorten a rope. I would have to learn how to do that. Inserting a piece of rope is quick, easy, and effective. My question is does the insertion cause wear on the rope from the inside. There must be a reason that TC's loosen the knot to adjust. What is that reason?

[Sedge]

The feedback on has been great. It does appear Jeff may have received a rope we did not properly stretch prior to measurement.

TC's do seem to adjust ropes as need, our goal is that all of our ropes will be slightly short so that no adjusting is needed and ropes stay in tolerance the whole time. I would prefer to have to adjust a short rope opposed to making a long rope shorter. We will be doing more testing and if long term the ropes, mainline especially needs to be made shorter we will.

[APB]

I want to try one just because of the Masterline comments. @Sedge if they have taken notice... youre doing something right. I ski masterline currently.... i like masterline, however the pricing has gotten really high.

[APB]

@Sedge are there any major tournaments/ associations willing to pull with your lines?

[Sedge]

@APB our lines are being used in some smaller class C tournaments. We would love to our lines used in some of the big tournaments but know that will take some time as more skiers try them. We look forward to that day and are ready! We hope you get to try one soon.

[Drago]

@dbutcher Inserting pieces of rope will take 1/4" out of a handle, and if cut diagonally should not effect wear, but 8-10 cm would need a new loop. Super easy to do, but a new rope shouldn't need that.

[dbutcher]

Thanks Drago. I haven't done one in a while, but my memory is that a 12" insert shortens the rope by 1".

[RGilmore]

@Drago

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the amount of length taken out by inserting a piece of rope into the center depend entirely on on the length of the piece inserted? I mean, I'm sure that there is some length that specifically

takes "1/4" out of a handle", but wouldn't a longer length take out more and a shorter length take out less?

[skialex]

It’s one thing to want to shorten a handle by 1/4” at a very last minute in order to compete and it’s a totally different thing to want to adjust the length of a tow rope. A rope out of tolerance… we are not talking about a 1/4”. I wouldn’t want to insert rope pieces in order to shorten my rope. It will make it thick and heavy.

And the handle… in an emergency, you don’t really need tools or a fid… you loosen the knot by banging it on a solid smooth surface (you don’t want to damage the threads) and fish out the end rope using anything… a screwdriver, a pen, even just your hands and pull the rope in to shorten it.

You don’t have to put the end rope back in, ski your round and do that later when you have access to some kind of a fid.

 

[Drago]

@RGilmore

My point being that's a tremendous amount of rope to take up 10 cm and that's just not how it's done

[RGilmore]

@Drago I understand everything @skialex said, and agree with almost all of it. However, I would never rely on the simple overhand knot of an end-splice loop alone, with the tail hanging out, to stand up to the forces in slalom - that's just asking for trouble, IMO. I was merely pointing out that there is a direct correlation between the length of an added core piece and how much it shortens the outer rope.

 

I've been told that an inch of added core rope shortens the overall length by 1/4". It that's true, then a 4" piece would take up a whole inch. I imagine very few skiers arrive at a tournament with their favorite handle section, only to be told by the TC that their handle is an inch too long - but it that did happen, the obvious solution is to add that little 4-inch core piece... and never look back. I mean, how much heavier could it be?

 

As always, the above is only IMO.

[Drago]

Ok, whatever. You were talking about 10cm of mainline.

 

[RGilmore]

@Drago

"Ok, whatever"?

 

Did my wife tell you to say that?

[Fastguy888]

I purchased the new S-Line Competition Series (Medium Stretch). Only had it out once for a few turns on open water; but it felt very nice. Came off a year old Syndicate rope. The added stretch was very nice, made it easier to stay connected to boat without slack and was easier on the body.

[Weappa]

Received a Competition Slalom Line, S Series from S-Lines. Easy to order, quick delivery, I made a change to my order (color) and they quickly responded to my change request. Line looks great, can't wait to try it out. A minor constructive feedback is the loops between lengths are on the small side. I prefer larger loops when dealing with putting the line on the pylon.

[Horton]

@Weappa you ski behind a Malibu?