Binding choice

[Cumby85]

I just ordered a Strada and need bindings. Getting back into skiing after a long time away. I'm old school and was thinking about ordering some Wiley rubber bindings. I really don't think I want to go with the new rigid style boots, at least for now, but someone was telling me I should try the ones that are a step down from them (sorry I can't remember what he called them) because they would be so much more comfortable and I would still come out of them easily. Any recommendations on bindings?

[The_MS]

Vapors

[Ed_Obermeier]

Rubber bindings ---> least complicated. Strada/Vapor bindings ---> more complicated. Hard shell bindings ---> most complicated. IMO start with the least complicated setup while working out the other numerous variables of serious slalom skiing. Once you have all that covered and you want to add a BUNCH more variables to the equation, if you want to mess with hard shells go for it. Just be sure you understand what you're getting into with the various different types of bindings before you invest the $$$.

[Horton]

@Cumby85 if you're just coming back to skiing after a long break rubber bindings are really a safe bet. my personal preference is the d3 leverage bindings

[Stevie Boy]

I have Brand new Reflex System sitting in my garage, I brought it because I was having trouble getting out of the rubber binding after a set, shortly after knee surgery.

I very quickly went back to the D3 Leverage rubber binding and made myself find a way to get out of them after a set, it turned out to be fairly simple in the end, I will keep the reflex setup just in case, but my binding of choice remains the D3 Leverage.

I have heard of many stories involving injuries+bindings, we all accept that no binding is perfect for every type of fall and sometimes people get unlucky, or it comes down to the fact that they should have given up the pass several bouys before they fell, for me there is some give in the rubber boot which gives you a fighting chance if you do not get released during a fall, maybe a bad sprain.

I am sure somebody will a have a tale to tell when it comes to rubber bindings.

[Cumby85]

Will the D3 fit the Strada easily? I like the idea of easing back into it with what I'm comfortable with...although more comfort is attractive to me too.

[skialex]

They will fit, just check that your ski has holes both for D3 rear plate and HO, if not, buy the D3 boot / RTP with the plate that is made to fit HO ski's!

[Ed_Obermeier]

Just taking a quick look at bindings on D3's site, the rear plate looks to me like it's designed to fit the HO/Radar hole pattern too. If not get an HO Animal rear plate, matches up perfectly with the D3 Leverage rear and fits Radar/HO skis. I've used Leverage bindings on Radar skis since they started making them, no issues.

[Cumby85]

Ok. The front should fit too. Thanks.

[LkSamm196]

I am partial to the Animals, but also pretty amateur swerver

[ozski]

The Radar Profile boot is worth a look, easy to use and comfortable.

[Lovell]

Just returned to the sport after 19 yrs and I'm using Wiley's and they are working great. I think they are made with the molds from the old Kidder binding that I used my whole life growing up.

[allycat]

i have two ski s one has radar vector bindings and the other wileys i prefer the vector more comfortable and release okay from both (have tested that many times ) just my opinion from a very average skier

[MrJones]

 

 

To the OP. You never said what your goal/plan was. Are you rec skiing on public water, or are you getting "back" to rounding buoys? If you are planning on skiing the course I don't see why you wouldn't go straight to a Reflex. Looking at it for the first time the Reflex does look a bit intimidating, but it is really very easy to use. Bolt it on, set the tension to the recommended level, check to make sure it releases on the dock, done. Our whole family is on Reflex now and I am very pleased not to be dismantling rubber bindings for repair and fitting.

 

The comfort and control afforded by the Reflex (or other hardshells) is the main issue. I tricked a bit in an old Animal yesterday and it doesn't take long to notice the difference. Of course the main thing is that you get on the water and have fun. All of the suggestions in this thread will work. Just decide what your priority is. Cost, comfort, familiarity, etc and go with it.

 

 

[Cumby85]

My goal is to get back in the course, but my real goal is to keep on skiing long term. Im almost 50 and am more interested in longevity than being overly aggressive now. I just want to ski again, preferably injury free!

 

Im pretty sure Im going to go with a rubber binding. Makes since to me to start with what Im familiar with and go from there. Now to decide between the Leverage and Wiley. I don't like them too tight on my feet. Anyone know if one is a little wider or less tight on the foot than the other?

[bogboy]

If you get Wiley's, I would recommend the pro build, vs the pro series. The pro build has a thicker gauge rubber.

[Skiwoodgate]

Wiley one size larger than you would usually go. Thats not going to be too tight and is going to be more than adequate to meet you needs. Why add it the risk of using a mechanical releasing binding mechanism when all you want to do is get back in the course? Easiest, safest and (probably) the cheapest option.

[wtrskior]

Do yourself a favor and look into a newer soft she'll boot, of which there are many. I, like you had a hiatus from skiing and went with what I had known for bindings; rubber. I pained through a season on wiley highwraps and next year got into what was the new soft boots from radar, and now just about everyone makes.

 

I can't imagine going rubber high wrap again, especially for recreational skiing.

 

Vector boots or vapors if you intend to challenge the course at all. There are others, but I'm not personally familiar with them .

[ToddL]

The most popular bindings that I see are:

Radar Vapor/Strada - soft/hard shell with liner

D3 Leverage - rubber

Reflex - hard shell with liner (typically paired with rear toe or wiley rubber)

Goode Power shells - hard shell with liner

 

I use and prefer Radar Vapors.

 

Hard shells can be a bit too responsive for beginners.

D3 Leverage's are very popular rubber binidngs.

 

 

[lpskier]

For what ever it's worth, I like the Connelly Stoker binding as an alternative to Wiley's. They are a traditional high wrap rubber binding and provide all the performance of Wiley's while being a bit easier to get on, and if you like a tight binding, the open toe is more comfortable.

[Cumby85]

LOL OB. I didn't give you the list of bad joints.

[aupatking]

When I hobbled in to a respected ski shop in Orlando, in a boot up to my knee, and asked about a safer ski boot his response to what I had been using was "you trusted your safety to Velcro?". The Simple questions are often the ones you don't ask yourselves.

[swc5150]

I just replaced my Leverage bindings with Vectors. I like the Leverage, but they're hard to get on, and just not comfortable. I've only skied once this year, but the Vector setup is really comfortable, and I didn't notice any performance difference. I know I'll be able to ski longer, since my feet won't hurt.

[Dano]

I'm runnning O'Brien Sector Front and Force rear. Sector is much like the Radar Vector and very comfy. Same goes for the force, extremely comfy but allows a little more movement. I wear them extremely loose. I don't find a need to have them cinched down. Even with the laces loose my feet are secure and they provide plenty of support. In the event of a fall they eject with no issues.

[Than_Bogan]

@OB If your point is that slalom skiing is unsafe, then I agree.

 

But you appear to be saying that all bindings are equally unsafe, which I believe is completely untrue. There are many people who run/ran completely non-releasable bindings and that usually works out fine. That doesn't mean it's just as a safe as a releasable binding. And neither are all releasable bindings equally safe.

 

Slalom waterskiing is actually not THAT dangerous. If you want to just accept the risk of breaking an ankle, tearing an Achilles, etc., that's not completely insane. If you're smart about dropping the rope, you might not encounter such a fall for years of hard skiing -- maybe forever if you're also lucky. (Aside: The very low rate of occurrence makes it meaningless to talk about any particular person having not had an injury.)

 

A binding system is a backup plan when fate conspires against you. In my opinion, having no release at all is equivalent to having no backup plan. Dual-Lock is a backup plan, but the force required to release is highly variable depending on where it acts and what direction it comes from. Rubber boots can let you out in some situations -- an overall better backup plan in my opinion. A single plate held by pins has some advantages in safety, but one foot can potentially hold the other one down and enable an Achilles tear. OB4 bindings can release each foot in every possible direction except through the ski. I believe that is currently the best backup plan available.

 

Does that mean I'd stop somebody from skiing with me if they had non-releasable bindings or a Dual-Lock release? Not at all. The chances of a problem are very low, and adults are allowed to make their own choices about risk. And my own risk is only an extra 911 call with a very low probability. I don't need to panic over THAT!

[Cumby85]

I think Ive changed my mind. All the talk about comfort has got me leaning toward the Vectors. I have some foot problems and am afraid the tight rubber bindings might be too uncomfortable. Can anyone tell me the difference in the feather and aluminum plates on the Vector...besides price?

[Wayne]

I have been switching between HO Animals and Radar Vectors for the past 3 years. I can't really decide which I prefer personally. Vectors are much more comfortable but I'm never quite sure if I have them too tight so they always feel a little loose to me. I also have a trailing leg (left) that has about 20% of my meniscus remaining in my knee. The Vectors have so much more lateral and twisting resistance compared to a rubber boot that my "bad" knee never quite feels stable. It's not the binding, my knee is just that shot so I switch depending on how strong my knee is feeling.

 

Regarding the plate versus feather frame. The feather frame has an integrated mounting plate that is part of the boot "chassis". If using a radar ski I would go that route. The plate style the boot bolts to an aluminum mounting plate then the plate bolts to the ski (very similar to rubber boots). The benefit of the aluminum plate style boot is you cans mount the boots to a sequence plate. This is an aluminum plate that accomodates both front and rear boots (you remove the individual boot plates for this setup). So once you have spacing and rotation set you can adjust both boots front/back simultaneously with out pulling both boots off. It also offers finer adjustments than the separate plates. If you want to put radar boots on a non-radar ski you usually need the aluminum plate boots.

 

I have the aluminum plate boots on a sequence plate and swap it between 2 skis. It is a fast change versus two separate boots. If you go the aluminum plate route I recommend getting the sequence plate.

[eleeski]

Little trick to help the feel of the Vectors: add some camping mat foam on the back of the calf of your foot. The Vectors seem to run loose around the calf. Adding the foam tightens the feel up without needing the bungees overtightened. The foam will float away in a release but it's cheap if you lose it. This trick makes the Vectors feel really good vs an insecure feel without the foam insert.

 

Eric

[Wayne]

@eleeski I'm ok with the loose feeling at the upper part of the boot where the stretch cord has an influence. The lower laces are where I have struggled. I've feared really cranking them down to keep the ball of my foot planted since everyone always says "don't over tighten vectors/Stradas or they won't release". The lower laces also stretch after getting wet so they loosen over my first set. Do I just need to man up and "crank them down"? With the upper laces set with some stretch for a release is it even possible to over tighten the lower laces?

[eleeski]

Personally, I crank the bottom laces tight. Only a couple releases and no issues.

 

I use Radar RS1s on my slalom. The laces were too difficult to get tight. So I replaced the laces with a clip from a broken hardshell. I crank it as tight as my hardshell tension. I use intuition liners so they compress enough to release. For my feet. And my release preference.

 

@Wayne Those Animals should be approached with caution. The rubber hardens with time. I loved my new Animals but had to switch for comfort and safety as they aged.

 

@aupatking Trite sayings that criticize an elegant solution to a difficult problem are a little harsh. There is a lot of Goode bashing. Sorry about your injury but aging brittle tendons and ignoring your yoga or stretching are probably more responsible for the injury than any binding release system. While "velcro" may not be perfect, it works well for many and can be a superior release system to many of the other options. Specific falls may favor specific systems but overall the Goode Powershells work quite well.

 

@Than_Bogan Sometimes no release IS safest. Every fall and every person is different. And every release system has its benefits and drawbacks. I certainly respect your endorsement of OB4 but that is a personal match to your body, ability and philosophy. Not for everyone or all the time.

 

I am qualified to say this as the person who has probably fallen more than anyone else. As an old guy, a trick skier and a crazy tinkerer, I have more experience than anyone. Helmets are not necessary, handle guards are not the panacea they promise and any binding can injure you.

[Siouxcitysmitty]

I've had the vectors for about 4 years now and like them. However, I don't have the perspective of having tried anything else, other than some old school rubber bindings. I will say that mine are a little bit of effort to get on/off. I find that dish soap doesn't provide any benefit sliding them on like it does with rubber bindings.

[swc5150]

@Cumby85 I bought my Vectors from waterskis.com as they have some non-current models in stock that'll save you a lot of scratch. Free shipping too.

[TallSkinnyGuy]

I went from old rubber high wraps to Connelly Talon bindings -- the Talons look very similar to the Vectors and other bindings of that genre. I never have to use soap and they are easy to get on. I feel plenty secure with the bottom laces quite snug and the top laces (which are stretchy) somewhat snug. My feet never get cramps like they always did with the various rubber bindings I've had. The only thing I don't like is I have to release the laces to get out of them comfortably at the end of a set. I'm sure I could kick out of them with enough force, but I don't want to stress the bindings more than necessary in order to make them last longer.

[Than_Bogan]

@eleeski I mostly agree with you. There are a ton of tradeoffs to make and every solution has vulnerabilities.

 

But I do think it's important to realize that's not the same as saying everything is equal.

[lpskier]

I am most concerned about a twisting fall with one foot in and one foot out. Naturally enough, this is the type of fall that hurt me the most and that I want to avoid in the future. In a sport that seems to be geared to engineers, systems that rely on serendipity, like Goode with Dual Lock and Radar with elastic laces, seem counter intuitive to me. While I am a hard shell guy (Fogman), I prefer traditional rubber double high wrap binders to a lot of the newer, less "scientific" bindings that are available.

[MikeT]

I tore my Achilles after not releasing from the D3 Leverage. I hit the buoy, went forward and stayed in. I wanted to stay with rubber bindings so I went to the D3 T-Factor. It feels very much like the Leverage but it has "elastic" roping to snug your binding in the front. The Leverage is all rubber. Elastic why? Once your tension is set you can get in and out of the binding because the rope stretches to let you in and out and you still have solid support. I've never tested how they release with a bad fall yet and hope I don't have to, but the design is for them to be a little easier to release from.

[ToddL]

Feather frame... I have heard that it is not strong enough for high end competitive skiing, that it will break in some out the front types of falls.

Feather frame is lighter and puts your foot nearly touching the top of the ski.

It only mounts to Radar compatible inset patterns.

 

The aluminum frame is heavier, stronger, and has mounting holes for a greater number of inset patterns.

[swc5150]

My Vector feather frame front insert holes matched my D3 ski. The RTP, however, needed a slight routing to make work. With both bindings having feather frames, the ski is incredibly light.