Just one tip to stop breaking at waist.

[Tdub]

I have been skiing for decades (66 years old) and still love the sport and the people in it. I know my technique is marginal and breaking at the waist on my off side turn and lean is the culprit. I am left foot forward and ski on a Helix. Is there one little mod I can make to that ski to help my problem. I Know, I know it is my form but is there just one thing I can do to that ski to help? I never mess with the ski but I am willing to try. Any thoughts will be GREATLY appreciated.

 

Cheers.

Tom

[skialex]

Move your front binding 1/8" to the back. Or first make sure that you are not already forward than factory suggestion.

Good luck,

Alex,

[ToddL]

I am sure there are many 1 things that can be done; but without any video, are you willing to risk that we suggest the correct 1 thing? ;-)

[Ajskier]

@Tdub, remember we just started skiing not long ago, so I am sure you still working into skiing shape. From the couple times that we have skied together this year, I think you are fine.

[Tdub]

Thanks @AJ. Just getting a bit frustrated. And yes @ToddL, I am willing to try. And thanks @skialex I will check that out.

[Razorskier1]

@Tdub -- I do the same thing and I'm 53. It primarily occurs because I let my shoulders go forward as I stomp on the tip. I've been told to keep my hips up -- doesn't work for me. My son tells me to keep my chest up, and that solves the problem.

[Than_Bogan]

@Tdub Do you mean you are suddenly getting folded over right as you want to initiate a turn at the ball? I have recently learned that that symptom can be caused by almost exactly opposite things: too little tip engagement or too much! For that reason, and others, video is probably the key to getting good advice.

[gregy]

Don't settle, it can most likely be tuned out. Mr fin whisper @SKIJAY is doing video coaching for fin settings.

[Jordan]

From the Goode site

 

Adjustment Options

 

 

Problem:

Breaking at the waist on off-side turn

 

Solution:

Decrease front fin depth (Diagonal Adjustment)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Texas6]

Not an uncommon problem; chest up is exactly what I do to solve it also

[OldboyII]

I'm 57 lazy'n'big. Started skiing at 55.

Having the same issue.

There is the only one thing that helps me:

Most of boat drivers either do not say much or say: u cool man, for your age. keep on!

But there is one who drives and coaching.

Between passes, when I'm in the water he drives closer just to say: I do not see skier at the end of the rope, all I see is the plastic bag with rubish. Get out of the water if you do not want to work!

(In fact he uses some other words not to be published :'( )

And... it works! Really works!

 

 

 

[LeonL]

@Tdub you specifically asked for a tuning tip to help the problem, and what @Jordan said is it.

[Tdub]

Thanks everyone. Two things. I will try to decrease fin depth and get some video next time out. Thanks to all. Cheers.

[mbabiash]

To be clear. I think the terminology is misleading on Goodes description.

They say to decrease front fin depth.

How we usually talk about this is decreasing fin length.

Not overall depth.

[The_MS]

Counter rotate

[A_B]

You are probably trying to "manage" the turn by having your chest pointed over the ski tip or back towards the wake. This puts pressure on the front of the ski, it ends up getting stuck behind you when it stops in the water, and there you go..

 

To prevent this from happening, when you take your left hand off the handle, you need to pull your left shoulder back so your chest stays pointed away from the wake, leaving your left hand at your waist waiting for the handle. Push your belly button forward in pre-turn as well so you stay stacked. As you feel the apex of the turn, you need to ski your left hip and hand back to the handle. Try to avoid reaching across your body to the handle with your left hand. The ski needs to come around and go under the line in between the handle and the boat, so really pay attention if the ski is lagging behind and where does this happen. ZO will hit you hard when you stall the ski in the turn, so that is something to avoid at all costs.

 

Your ski should turn more freely and allow you to ski your hip to the handle. If you have slack, that is when you pull the handle into your mid section and immediately rotate your left hip up and nail the handle to it. At longer lines and if you are skiing well, this won't be needed. Strive to ski with straight arms.

[Fam-man]

@A_B thanks for the excellent description and key points to drive movements

[Fam-man]

@A_B thanks for the excellent description and key points to drive movements

[ToddL]

Again, this is for LFF 2-ball, offside.

 

The other words I have heard/used for this same movement is to think about the right hip moving up and forward. When this happens, the shoulders move as described above. The goal is to get the COM more forward without using the shoulders only. Also, since it is an off-side turn, it is more difficult to maintain outbound motion. Thus, the counter rotation and shoulders comments above are legit. Try each method of creating/thinking about the desired movement. Hopefully, one of them will help.

[ToddL]

Again, this is for LFF 2-ball, offside.

 

The other words I have heard/used for this same movement is to think about the right hip moving up and forward. When this happens, the shoulders move as described above. The goal is to get the COM more forward without using the shoulders only. Also, since it is an off-side turn, it is more difficult to maintain outbound motion. Thus, the counter rotation and shoulders comments above are legit. Try each method of creating/thinking about the desired movement. Hopefully, one of them will help.

[lcgordon]

Just wondering what is the science behind decreasing fin depth? What does that do to make you not bend at the waste?

[lcgordon]

Just wondering what is the science behind decreasing fin depth? What does that do to make you not bend at the waste?

[OldboyII]

Keeping elbows on the west works fine for me.

 

I also found that muscles preventing break in the waist are not engaged enough in our normal live or other sports routine. They generally are weak if we do not ski on regular basis around the year.

 

Hyperextentions and deadlifts (20-25 reps) with moderate weights it the gym helped me a lot to be more consistent during the set.

[OldboyII]

Keeping elbows on the west works fine for me.

 

I also found that muscles preventing break in the waist are not engaged enough in our normal live or other sports routine. They generally are weak if we do not ski on regular basis around the year.

 

Hyperextentions and deadlifts (20-25 reps) with moderate weights it the gym helped me a lot to be more consistent during the set.

[ToddL]

@lcgordon fin length, not depth. There was confusing text above from the Goode site:

"Decrease front of fin depth" = decrease in fin length.

 

With the back of the fin's depth held constant, pushing the front of the fin up into the ski will result in reducing the total length of the exposed fin.

 

(Fin depth refers to the depth near the back of the fin at the deepest part.)

[ToddL]

@lcgordon fin length, not depth. There was confusing text above from the Goode site:

"Decrease front of fin depth" = decrease in fin length.

 

With the back of the fin's depth held constant, pushing the front of the fin up into the ski will result in reducing the total length of the exposed fin.

 

(Fin depth refers to the depth near the back of the fin at the deepest part.)

[lcgordon]

@ToddL Thanks for that.

 

Why does doing that help not break at the waist?

 

Is this something that would be good for a beginner to do as well as working on form?

[lcgordon]

@ToddL Thanks for that.

 

Why does doing that help not break at the waist?

 

Is this something that would be good for a beginner to do as well as working on form?

[MISkier]

@lcgordon, I believe a fuller fin increases drag and may contribute to the ski stopping under you, thus causing your momentum to break you forward at the waist.

 

You get a fuller fin when your overall fin length is increased. So, shortening the overall fin length (a.k.a "taking out some tip") would reduce drag.

[MISkier]

@lcgordon, I believe a fuller fin increases drag and may contribute to the ski stopping under you, thus causing your momentum to break you forward at the waist.

 

You get a fuller fin when your overall fin length is increased. So, shortening the overall fin length (a.k.a "taking out some tip") would reduce drag.

[lcgordon]

Got ya thanks for that.

[lcgordon]

Got ya thanks for that.

[gregy]

Helix info

 

Increasing fin length w/out changing Distance from tail (dft) moves the leading edge (LE) forward which increases tip sensitivity. Moving the LE back will decrease tip sensitivity. But that's all assuming that tip sensitivity is causing your problem. You might not have the bindings in the optimal position. You might need more fin area.

 

 

 

[gregy]

Helix info

 

Increasing fin length w/out changing Distance from tail (dft) moves the leading edge (LE) forward which increases tip sensitivity. Moving the LE back will decrease tip sensitivity. But that's all assuming that tip sensitivity is causing your problem. You might not have the bindings in the optimal position. You might need more fin area.

 

 

 

[Jordan]

Here is what Schnitz says on the topic:

 

Breaking at the waist is usually an off-side turn problem. This can have 2 causes; too much tip or too little tip. Let me explain. When you have too much tip or too much front of the ski in the water, your ski will stop at the end of the turn. A common occurrence of too much tip is that the skier is very inconsistent on the off-side turns. When they get on the front, the ski stops so they begin to fear the turn and stay back. When on the back of the ski, it won't turn. But every once in a while, it turns OK. When you have too little tip or ski in the water, you will have to jump on the front of the ski to get it to slow down and turn. This jumping on the front puts your body in a vulnerable position. Once the ski hits it's “critical speed”, (the stall speed or the speed where the ski does not have enough lift to support the amount of pressure being exerted upon it) it stops, either throwing you out the front or causing you to break at the waist.

Breaking at the waist on the on-side turn is usually caused by too much tip or front of the ski riding too deep. When this happens, the ski begins to turn slowly and then, towards the end of the turn, it grabs way too much angle and almost stops which can cause breaking at the waist.

To correct these situations, some of the cures are moving the bindings back, taking out tip or adding depth

 

[Jordan]

Here is what Schnitz says on the topic:

 

Breaking at the waist is usually an off-side turn problem. This can have 2 causes; too much tip or too little tip. Let me explain. When you have too much tip or too much front of the ski in the water, your ski will stop at the end of the turn. A common occurrence of too much tip is that the skier is very inconsistent on the off-side turns. When they get on the front, the ski stops so they begin to fear the turn and stay back. When on the back of the ski, it won't turn. But every once in a while, it turns OK. When you have too little tip or ski in the water, you will have to jump on the front of the ski to get it to slow down and turn. This jumping on the front puts your body in a vulnerable position. Once the ski hits it's “critical speed”, (the stall speed or the speed where the ski does not have enough lift to support the amount of pressure being exerted upon it) it stops, either throwing you out the front or causing you to break at the waist.

Breaking at the waist on the on-side turn is usually caused by too much tip or front of the ski riding too deep. When this happens, the ski begins to turn slowly and then, towards the end of the turn, it grabs way too much angle and almost stops which can cause breaking at the waist.

To correct these situations, some of the cures are moving the bindings back, taking out tip or adding depth

 

[Than_Bogan]

I'm not always the biggest fan of Schnitz's way of explaining things, but in this case I think he has really nailed it. It's important to figure out if it's a too-much-tip or too-little-tip scenario before you can start down a path that may help.

[Than_Bogan]

I'm not always the biggest fan of Schnitz's way of explaining things, but in this case I think he has really nailed it. It's important to figure out if it's a too-much-tip or too-little-tip scenario before you can start down a path that may help.

[motoskier]

I have been battling this for about 35 years, run 35 off about 40% of the time (never easy), tried many different skis, always some issue with my off side. I know it is never the equipment but a few weeks ago I tried a new Connelly GT (on the suggestion from the best coach ever) , OMG cant do anything wrong on my off side. Hortons review said it was a very forgiving ski, he was very right.

[motoskier]

I have been battling this for about 35 years, run 35 off about 40% of the time (never easy), tried many different skis, always some issue with my off side. I know it is never the equipment but a few weeks ago I tried a new Connelly GT (on the suggestion from the best coach ever) , OMG cant do anything wrong on my off side. Hortons review said it was a very forgiving ski, he was very right.

[chris55]

I started slaloming 2 years ago and it is my 3rd season and I was breaking at the waist on my off side turn (I am RFF). Buy pulling my outside shoulder arriving at the buoy and then the hip come around, not the arm for reaching to the handle, that help me a lot. Still working on it but when it is doing right, wow...I am a super skier, that is how I feel as a beginner(34mph at 15off)