Marketing waterskiing vs. surfing + wakeboarding

[ScarletArrow]

Here are the MC promotional videos.

vs.

 

Notice the differences...

 

Even though you can ski in open water and surf in tournaments - the skiing video ONLY shows "tournament style" and the surf boat ONLY shows "open water".

 

Even though people of all ages, size and shapes can ski - the skiing video ONLY shows a professional while the surf boat shows how the entire family can participate.

 

The skiing video ONLY shows what less than 1% of all skiers can do, while the surf video shows what ANYONE can do.

 

Even though we can see Krista's smile, to the uninitiated the ski boat = "serious" and the surf boat = "fun".

 

Do you think the "world's flattest wakes" would appeal to little kids and beginner skiers?

 

Can you swim off the platform of a ski boat?

 

Can you do something other than slalom behind a ski boat?

 

Can you put a sound system in a ski boat?

 

On my recent vacation to one of the big lakes in the TVA, my ski buddy and I had 4 kids join us every morning at 7:30a on our ski boat.

 

We would slalom ski, combo ski, ski doubles, knee board, swim, and barefoot (off a boom).

 

This wasn't us dragging them out of bed - one morning the daughter didn't get up and she cried when she found out she missed the ski run.

 

One morning my ski buddy and I discussed (which is where my comments came from in the other thread) how we (and the kids) enjoyed the morning ski run a little more than the afternoon surf run. Why?

 

The ski run had less people and was thus more intimate - creating quality time with dad. Remember what Chris Parrish said?

 

The surf run had so many people on it, that kids eventually got bored waiting for their turn. We had to break things up by bringing a second boat, limiting attempts, stopping for swim time, etc.

 

The ski run was faster and it was easy to give people multiple turns.

 

The kids like driving the ski boat WAY more than the surf boat.

 

Outside of surfing and maybe tubing, what else can you do behind a surf boat? Wakeboarding? No one wants to try that anymore - re: the wakes are huge and intimidating to beginners, and the falls can be nasty.

 

It could be argued that the ski boat is actually the more versatile and family friendly boat - just not as profitable to the boat companies.

 

TL;DR Ski boat marketing should show the benefits to the entire family and include an open water environment. It should promote casual fun as much as serious performance. It should promote beginner as well as elite levels.

 

Fire away!

 

*Disclaimer - I'm not criticizing any individual or boat company here. I'm just voicing an opinion based on my recent experience.

[jpwhit]

Boat marketing is irrelevant imo. They don't put any real money into it, otherwise you'd see national media advertising. If anything it's to sway people between brands, people already know what they're interested in doing before they come to any of this material.

[B_S]

Ski boat advertising back in the Hot Summer Night Era used to have all that. The manufacturers don't need to do that anymore. They sell all the tournament boats they build without a problem. They focus their advertising budget on the much higher profit margin barges.

[rockdog]

All accurate observations @ScarletArrow.

[LeonL]

What @B_S said. "They sell all the tournament boats they build without a problem. They focus their advertising budget on the much higher profit margin barges."

When was the last time anyone saw a media commercial/ad for a Corvette? GM sells all they can make.

[MattP]

@The_Krista :)

[ScarletArrow]

The sell all they can make because there is sufficient market demand.

 

My hypothesis based upon my recent experience is that you can have just as much fun (if not more) behind a ski boat as you can a surf boat.

 

So why the extreme disparity in demand?

 

Possible answers...

 

Boat manufacturers have curated that demand to promote higher profit margin products.

 

We as skiers haven't done a good job of telling our own story.

 

Skiers have retreated to the private lake and single purpose (chasing buoys) activity, so we don't have a good story to tell.

 

I would like to see more demand (and more supply) for ski boats.

 

My proposed solution is better story telling and marketing from the skiers themselves.

 

If the question is, "How many ski boats are going to be built this year?", and the answer is "The same as last year." my heart sinks.

 

At best that means getting on an 18-month waiting list, work all your connections, hope and pray that your order comes through.

[BraceMaker]

@ScarletArrow - unfortunately our ski boat ulization has gone down sharply since surfing became a thing. We still use them we still ski, but our pontoon or I/O are the only thing we can use on the lake when surfers are out.

 

I used to keep a ski boat on a public lake at a rental slip - now we keep a pontoon. We will trailer in the ski boat but the lake is unusable so much of the day it is just too small to sit in even at anchor with sufficient rope out there is just too much wave action now.

 

The problem with the conversation is always "are surf boats worse than waves" and the partial answer is no -they are not. But the complete answer is surf boats are out there making waves when they didn't exist and just like other boats when it is super windy and crappy no one is out. But they make the lake essentially windy and crappy every day that the weather doesn't do that for you.

[PeterAK]

There is one surf boat that is on our 75 acre lake every Saturday and Sunday. The people on it are very nice, and other than power turning to pick up downed riders, they do a better job than most of maintaining distance from and respecting other lake users. But their barge is still a menace. Kids won't ski or wakeboard if it's out. We've added (literally) tons of rock to our shoreline to try to protect it the last couple years and it's still getting damaged in a way that didn't happen five years ago. These boats are stupid. Surfing is stupid. I can jump a wakeboard wake to wake on my PS195 without any ballast (did it to show my 9 year old it was possible). I'm a grumpy old man who loves slalom, and this very well stated post got me revved up. Sorry.

[unksskis]

@ScarletArrow what is the story telling to be told? You can't take the new waterski boats out on a busy reservoir like you can a larger "surf" boat. You can't have people sitting behind the pylon when towing. You can't easily tie up a ski boat to the taller boats in party cove. The ski boat market customer prioritizes performance behind the boat, the wheel, and features that enhance that experience like engine, Zero Off, ballast, ski racks. The market has moved to a more specialized performance product to meet these priorities, which don't align with the recreational boat market priorities or desires.

[Dano]

The surfing has won over the boaters simply due to ease of operation. The boats can handle the rough public waters, the surfing is low impact, and easier for people to get started on. The whole family and friends can fit in the boat and enjoy a party even those who don't surf It's a "good time" for everybody and you can do it all day long. Skiers on the other hand we need calm water, 3 maybe 4 people in the boat if you squish. We are spent after 2 sets. If you are not a skier you likely have zero interest in participating.

 

Myself I have always enjoyed the "lake life". the early mornings, the calm, the swimming, the cruising around the lake, the cold bevy in the hot sun, the other lake dwellers doing the same. The skiing is the part i like the most but without the rest of it, it wouldn't be the same for me. It's all a part of the package that makes this sport awesome. But because our boats are small our circle of friends we get to share the experiences with doesn't really grow unless we provide an environment that includes people watching from shore or more importantly enjoying themselves while they wait for their turn or watch from shore. There needs to be something for them on shore. Ski clubs are a great way to keep everybody involved.

 

Here in BC Canada private water is very difficult to find and finding a body of water that will permit waterskiing outside of the major public water ways is again very difficult. Result is very few ski clubs. Having recently participated in my first couple of tournaments I was able to see what a ski club adds to the enjoyment. The kids were coming off the water smiling, their parents and siblings and friends were cheering them on from shore. The people that weren't skiing had music going, playing games, making new friends, BBQing, swimming etc.... I may have enjoyed it more than most because I am a skier but the environment looked fun enough to my 10 year old daughter to get her interested in learning to ski. (previously she had shown little interest). So the issue is not that the sport is not fun or that the culture is not a good one. The issue is with access. Ski clubs with a focus on the "whole package" are super important to the sport if we want gain interest. Having said that those clubs need access to water. We don't need the water to be water ski club only. Why not share it with a rowing club, or a diving club, or a kids summer camp etc.... here where I live its the way we are regulated that limits our water access. Private lakes don't really exist here, the idea of legally digging one likely never gets passed the idea part. The lakes that would be ideal for the sport will be very difficult to convince fisheries to make an exception to allow skiing. And so we settle for early morning sets on public water hoping we get to at least do that for the foreseeable future. Growing the sport kinda takes the back seat when you're just hanging on to what is left hoping to maintain before somebody decides "courses on public water are no longer allowed" or "This lake is paddle only now".

[UWSkier]

Last time I was out on the public water I ski here in AZ it was a Thursday morning. There were 5 boats pulling slalom skiers. 2 of those were vdrive wake boats. There wasn't a surfer or wake board in sight.

 

One of the boats was a brand new Prostar.

 

Slalom is making a comeback.

[Lieutenant Dan]

@UWSkier +1 on slalom (or just waterskiing) resurgence. We spent 4th of July weekend at Norris Lake TN and saw way more waterskiers than surfers (maybe saw one wakeboarder other than me). We were amazed at how many other slalomers were out for the morning glass runs. With gas at $7.00 at the marinas maybe those with the surfing barges are having to cut back? Who knows, but it was refreshing not to have so many huge wakes to avoid when out for an Airchair or wakeboard run in the afternoon.

[wtstapel]

Can I just say that I hate the fact that I don't ever see the skier cross "the worlds flattest wake"? I want to see how much it pushes the skier off course. Lots of walls of water, beautiful stuff, but I'd love to see some uninterrupted buoys.

[skinut]

MC knows exactly who they are marketing to. NO ONE outside of tournament/course skiers are likely to drop 120K + for a brand new Prostar. We are the target market and that ad spoke to me and all that I look for in a boat.

 

The Surf boats are marketed to the entire family. It is truly a family boat and when you're 200K or more you have to be able to sell it to the wives as a way to keep the family together.

 

Skiing is a dying sport and one that doesn't encourage a boat full of people. I don't see how that ever changes. Less smooth water, less access to courses, to hard, not a social event, etc.

[Killer]

Was out on our big public lake last weekendn checking in on our course before we would use it at dawn

 

87ish prostar running the course with a combo skier and a few other runabouts (io's and ob's) taking Slalom skiers through. This is the reality in our region and for most recreational boaters on inland lakes - the target market for waterskiing.

 

Yes there are surf boats on the lake, but far more rare to see than other rec skiers, almost nobody wakeboards anymore - the vast majority of watersports is skiing of some kind or tubing.

 

You can't surf behind most boats. It's actually worse for Access than skiing or wakeboarding due to the cost of these very specialized boats. I don't see it as anything more than a niche market unless new technology is developed to bring the cost down and to the masses.

 

You can still rip a slalom through the course on a 17' bowrider with a 130hp johnson - not to the level I'm interested in, but its doable and its fun and that type of boat is very cost effective for the average joe.

 

this is the target market for waterskiing. Radar, HO, Obrien and Connelly are the players in this space, not mastercraft.

 

As much as I believe tournament skiing is tied to the big 3 towboat OEM's, the sport itself is not and it's certainly not dying. Rec skiing is an enjoyable, fun family activity where we can draw participants from to our very niche but active and organized sport. Focus

 

[Fastguy888]

Tow-sports are mirroring a cultural shift. The fitness required and wiliness to push beyond what is easy for recreational fulfillment has been replaced by fandom, technology and lower effort, lower risk activities. To be fit is often reduced to sex appeal or a tool for elite athletes. The fringes of what is considered physically healthy has been moved out by the crutch of modern drugs. When fitness is once again celebrated as a vessel for an enhanced human experience covering all aspects of life from health to recreation and psychological confidence; hopefully once again, 3-Event towsports will become the desirable way to recreate behind a boat.

[ISP6ball]

@Fastguy888 100%

[tjs1295]

@Killer I have to disagree with your statement about access a little bit. I don't think it matters what the full cost of the boat is, it's whether or not the person can make a monthly payment. I have a feeling a lot of lending institutions can figure out a way to get almost anyone into a $200-$300K boat.

 

Either way, glad to see you have less wake surfing boats on your lake than other types. They are all over the lake I live on, and growing every year.

[swc5150]

Wake boats have disappeared on our river, replaced with pontoons. MC buying Crest was brilliant foresight or a happy accident.

[unksskis]

@Killer Big thing there is the accessible slalom course on a public lake. Those are becoming fewer and fewer, and tougher to get DNR/Corps to allow or approve.

[ScarletArrow]

what is the story telling to be told?

The story to be told is quality time vs. party time.

Story 1 - Time with Dad

You will bond with your kids during open water ski runs.

Several years ago when my kids were still in elementary school, our schedules worked out one spring where we went out to the lake to ski at dawn.

This meant packing breakfast and school lunches and laying out school clothes the night before.

We woke at 5a, drove an hour and skied for 90 minutes. We showered at the lake at dropped the kids off about 30 minutes after school started (with wet hair).

My kids felt like they were coolest cats in the building. "Why are you late? Why is your hair wet?" Answer, "I went skiing with my dad."

Now my kids reflect back on that experience they say, "Remember when we always went skiing before school?"

I have to remind them, we only went like 5 or 6 times for one spring - but yeah, it was so good.

Story 2 - Ski Buddies

Your wife never asks what time you're coming home when you go skiing with your buddies.

Before I ever skied in the slalom course (or even knew what it was), my ski buddy had a Ski Supreme.

We would trailer it every Wednesday morning for 2 years at dawn to the local reservoir about 45 min away and free ski until we were too tired to ski anymore.

We would hustle back and try to get to work "on time" (about 10a).

Story 3 - Diversification

You can do more behind a ski boat than a surf boat.

Before any of my kids ever got on skis they got on kneeboards - easier, less scary, more fun.

Tricks (360 spins) and jumps and even the slalom course was their game.

My middle son even took a kneeboard set at Seth Stisher's.

As teenagers they break up their slalom sets with kneeboard runs and its typically the first thing we have their friends do when they come to the lake for the first time.

Double kneeboards are still a favorite. Heck, at 47 I went double kneeboarding on vacation and it was hilariously fun.

It's an easy way to teach your kids how to drive and pick up a "skier" after a fall.

Conclusion

What you can do with and behind a ski boat is so much more than a surf boat.

MC has a really great tower design. Instead of featuring really cool artistic drone footage of slalom spray, why not feature the tower?

You can beginner ski, combo ski, kneeboard, barefoot and tube from the tower. The only thing you can't do is take a slalom set.

[Hucklefin]

All three manufacturers killed the 'normal family' demand of the DD ski boat by making it so purpose built. Zero storage, horrible ride quality on a big lake, no rear trunk, marginal rear seating, etc, what do you expect. They replaced the bigger DD boats with more usable v-drives that ski poorly, but good enough, considering most people aren't taking slalom skiing very seriously. I ski behind a friends 197 quite a lot, which is probably the best family oriented DD out there, but still it gets REALLY tight after adding more than 5 people in that boat. V-drive is much more feasible. Can't see any of the manufacturers reversing course on this because of profit on a v-drive boat and lack of demand for a DD family boat oriented towards skiing.

Speaking of wakeboarding, seems like way less people do that, than even slalom skiing from my point of view! Where I go boating there are tons of DD ski boats 90's-mid 2k's. Otherwise its people surfing only which is super lame.

[dave2ball]

3 event skiing has been made very difficult by state and county regulations. It is very difficult to get a slalom course permit even for a weekend in some areas. 3event skiing takes a lot of time and minimal people in the boat and takes a lot to time months years to progress in the tournament setting IE practice. Sales drop. The MFG no have found a new audience. The profit is 3 to 1 ratio. You can throw 12 friends into a boat no course necessary, conditions don’t matter and you look like a rock star in a couple of sets. When dealers order they have slots. If the majority of orders are wake/surf boat that sell for 300K that is where the marketing dollars are spent. With the interest rates going up along with gas prices you just may see a turn and the 3 event boat may make a huge come back.

[tjs1295]

@Hucklefin Good point about wakeboarding. I don't see much skiing going on, but almost zero wakeboarding.

[Hucklefin]

@tjs1295 I think it's telling enough with how many pros are having to ride with 2 knee braces, or are currently recovering from a knee injury...

[braindamage]

I had a 2000 sunsetter LXi, which is arguably the best ever family oriented tournament quality ski boat. We loved it!! My kids loved it!! They grew up and I wanted a higher quality pull. I upgraded to a 2012 Response TXi and it isn’t even close to the creature comfort of the sunsetter. My wife and kids go out with me on cruises, but everyone comments that it isn’t a great boat for anything other than skiing. There aren’t even any cupholders for the spotter…something my wife still comments about after 3 seasons.

 

Malibu tried to recreate a family oriented ski boat with the LXR a few years back and nobody bought it.

 

It’s more than marketing. The product needs to fit the experience @ScarletArrow describes. Right now, the DD’s do not.

[Kwoody51]

@Hucklefin I’d debate that the x14/ PS214 is the most family oriented DD out there.

 

Large wrap around seating where the dog house is almost like an ottoman :)

 

I will agree that the LXI and others may have better ski wakes. But for a DD I don’t know of any boats with better utility.

[morfoot]

Good stuff and feedback here gang. Having just returned yesterday from Lake Norris after hanging out with a few Nautique ski buds from across the country and actually a friend from Belgium who drives for Mass Masters Ski Team who came over; skiing is very much alive at least in Tenn. The wonderful thing about the whole experience the last 4 days was there is always glass to ski on and with 5 or ski boats rafted up, someone was always peeling off to take somebody for a Footin run, A swivel run, slalom run, or even trick skis. Huge age gap as a 19 year old was Footin with a 74 year old. Cool stuff!!!!. A ski boat not even affiliated with us, cruised by with a heavy set guy on combos. After spending two weeks in the states, my Belgian Ski Bud who hadn't slalomed in 2 years got the fever again. He thanked me for talking him back into the sport and he was gonna dust of the HO when he got home and spend a little more time behind the boat instead of behind the wheel. Even if it means getting up a little early to get the glass.

Its up to as as skiers to promote the sport and get people to get off the board and on a ski. A boom is the best investment I ever made for teaching newbies to ski. They are intimidated by long line and trying to control the skis. Try a few times and give up. Put them on a boom and 80% of the time they get up on the first try and the smile is priceless. " Wow!!!!! That was fun!"

Keep pushing our sport swervers! We ain't done yet! Even my stepson who wanted me to pull him behind the boat on a tube has been converted. I told him years ago. We don't tube behind a ski boat. We ski, foot or board. He was bummed but has learned to do many disciplines behind the SN and has no interest in tubing anymore! Mission Accomplished!

 

[OREGON85]

I think the two videos are a reflection of the attitude of skiing vs. surfing. When I ski I take it seriously and try to improve skills and preform my best. When I surf I’m just screwing around having fun. I think MC just held a mirror up to it perspective buyers.

[utahslalom]

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread @ScarletArrow. As an open water skier, I share a lot of your same feelings. I enjoy wake surfing with family and friends, but it’s frustrating to watch surfing take over this industry. Fewer manufacturers are building DD boats and we’re even starting to see a decline in crossover boats.

 

I agree that the Sunsetter LXi and X14 are some of the best DD crossover boats. But I have to add the Response FXi into this list as well. I own a ‘09 RFXi and couldn’t be happier with the overall performance for slalom skiing and surfing while also giving you more storage.