THINKING OF CHANGING TO A REAR TOE PLATE

[bananaron]

I have skied with double boots forever.I currently use a radar vector front boot and Wileys double high wrap for the rear.I tried changing yrs ago however did not like it however I think it might be time.Any suggestions for what to try.How does the radar hrt and I think they also have a boa hrt not sure what the difference is.I have a small foot like a size 8.The radar has also feather frame and aluminum plate however I think it depends on size. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I think this might be difficult to change.....

[dbutcher]

Why do you say it is time to change?  It is easier to get up with just one foot on the ski; but in my experience, that is the only advantage.  I learned to slalom with a rear toe piece 50 years ago.  After a few years of my back foot occasionally coming out in the course, I switched to double boots and never looked back.  A rear toe piece is more likely to break at an inopportune time than a full boot.  I always changed the toe piece much more frequently than a full boot to try to prevent that.  Some skiers say that using a rear toe piece allows them to move their back heel around to assist with edge change etc.  I was never able to do that.   Bottom line (IMHO) - save your money.

[Ski_Dad]

I really like my new Wiley RTP - I finally found one that fits my foot right.  

[bananaron]

@dbutcher Actually its easier for me to get up with the double boots.The Wiley binding is so tight its difficult to get in and out of it and also I am now 75 yrs old.I am concerned about falling and dragging the ski as I did that yrs ago and ended up with knee surgery.Now it will be knee replacements as both are bad. For ease of things I think the rear toe might be better......

[ghutch]

I gave it shot and it was a shit show in a dumpster. Really gave it some effort. I'm sure with some time (probably a very long time) it could work but just couldn't make it happen. 

Good luck

[6balls]

The front with a rear binding can screw you on injury too--hence the rod in my leg.  I did find it easier out of the hole on my back and I lift my heel in pre-turn into all balls and can't do that in doubles---the doubles had be too far rearward in stance.  Pluses and minuses--I think if only the threat of injury is of concern I'd sit tight, Ron.  

[503Kento]

I switched to the Radar BOA HRT this year with no change in my skiing.  I have a 2021 Vapor front on a MOB plate and was using a very loose Vector rear (basically only tightened the boa, no top lace). I have small feet as well (7.5) I purchased the small on aluminum plate from @perfski The aluminum plate gives a lot of flexibility for positioning the boot.

[Stevie Boy]

Always on a RTP, odd size feet so always having to modify rubber, the other thing is you cannot always guarantee foot in the same.place every time.
Most.peoples natural .stance.is with rear.foot canted slightly, the RTP does let your rear foot find the right position, hip.and knee movement freedom, kinder on your knees.

Reference fitment, HO and Radar have Adjustable RTP with the fine adjustment that you rotate, no laces to keep on.adjusting, handy for different temps and changing foot size, if travelling to warmer or colder climates, thinking more consistent with foot placement.

I  regularly tear the rubber, have come up with a suitable replacement that I manufacture, generally retail you have to buy the whole plate,rubber not sold seperately

Waiting for HO ATOPS Adjustable to arrive, skiers I  know have switched to it and like it, seems fairly durable.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Stevie Boy

[BraceMaker]

Not saying you have to do this but a great way to start the move is to ski around on something like an HO hovercraft instead of on your normal proper slalom ski.  Go out to a lake and just spend a few hours cruising with an RTP then it won't feel so weird when you go for it.

Edited May 25, 2023 by BraceMaker

[skierjp]

Try the R plate from Reflex. It’s between a double binding and a rear toe. FYI. Take a look at most of the podium finishes on the Pro circuit. All have rear toe bindings. 

[swc5150]

I use a Vector feather frame, and have a similar size foot as you.  It's perfect for me...comfy and my foot doesn't slide around at all.  I quit double boots after a severe sprain going OTF with Goode Power Shells and never looked back. 

[scoke]

Absolutely, go for it!! Can you take video?

 

There is a reason the saying is "yes you can teach old dogs new tricks!"

[owennibley]

best thing I ever did was to change from double boot to RTP. So much easier to get up and maneuver with a free foot. It took almost half the season to get back to my normal passes but absolutely worth it. Best of luck!

[Not_The_Pug]

I made the switch this year from double hard shells to the Syndicate hard shell and R Type rear.  It has been very different for me and I'm not back to normal yet.  I have been making adjustments to the set up and it is starting to feel good.  I have found it has improved the feel to my onside, the offside has been a little struggle, but starting to get that dialed.

I found slowing the boat down a little and then slow going back up to 34 helped me get comfortable just standing on the ski properly.

[Ski_Dad]

19 hours ago, bananaron said:

@dbutcher Actually its easier for me to get up with the double boots.The Wiley binding is so tight its difficult to get in and out of it and also I am now 75 yrs old.I am concerned about falling and dragging the ski as I did that yrs ago and ended up with knee surgery.Now it will be knee replacements as both are bad. For ease of things I think the rear toe might be better......

i would try the HRT or maybe double Vector BOA's - i love the vector boa up front - so easy to get into when boat is loose.  Way more comfortable than rubber bindings.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Ski_Dad

[buoyboy1]

@bananaron Since you live in MN stick with the double boots.  Your rear foot will love you for it when you ski early spring and late fall.....

[teammalibu]

Talking to Drew Ross last fall and he said the first thing he would tell any skier at any level is to start using a rear toe binding. He said it’s the only way to have proper balance. When I skied with Andy Mapple years ago he made one to fit my foot. After 5 of the ugliest passes ever he laughed and said we should put my rear boot back on! I did eventually switch to the Reflex half boot!

 

[Fam-man]

I have switched from a Vector rear boot to a HO adjustable RTP and now to a BOA HRTP.

The transition from Vector boot to RTP only took a few sets. I would jam my rear foot into the RTP until my toes touched the front boot and then would tighten up the laces really snug. As a result the RTP was high on my foot, close to the ankle, giving a secure feel. I would do this on the swim platform and so still get up with 2 feet in. I was happy with that setup and only made a change due to collateral damage to the RTP.

I'm pretty happy with the BOA HRTP as it provides more lateral support for my heel. I do find it tightens too much across my toes which gets uncomfortable and allows more heel lift then either of my previous setups. I still get up with both feet in.

A ski partner has the standard HRTP, gets up with 1 foot and slips his back in. He is quite happy with the setup.

[bananaron]

@Fam-man What is the difference between the BOA and the standard HRTP

[swbca]

With an RTP you are more likely to have a fall where only 1 foot is secured to the ski, so that ankle is vulnerable to being broken without the leverage you have with both feet in.  That's the reason many skiers switched to full rear boots years ago.   Consider a full rear boot that is easier to release.  I use the D3 TFactor in the rear and it can be adjusted to release more easily than your Wiley.

Also switching to an RTP can be difficult.  When I tried an RTP 2 years ago, I often came close to going out the front at the wake because my rear foot was not secured to the ski in the way I had skied for 30 years.  I switched back to the rear boot   . .  T-Factor

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by swbca

[Menzelskier]

It's extremely important with a RTP to have a binding that will let your front foot go. I use Wiley rubber in front and Wiley RTP rear. If your front foot is locked in tight (which seems common with double boots) you are asking for a knee injury. I think it is hard to switch bindings. I tried a double boot once and had no control at all. Did not like the feeling of my rear held in the exact same angle all the time.

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

My vote is RTP. I did double bindings for years but see so many pro skiers are on RTP I made the switch. I really like it better. You can really almost kick you foot into the RTP under water and it is just as secure. Just do it!

[vtmecheng]

BOA just means it has a dial to adjust tension instead of a toggle thing. I personally love the BOA because I can easily adjust it a bit in the water if I need to. Been using the Radar ARTP for a year and prefer it over the HO version from 5 years ago. For those cold water days, I use a super thin neoprene sock (got at REI) that is a few sizes smaller than suggested. To add grip, I applied strips of Goop glue to the bottom of the sock. That works amazingly well. Just be sure the sock is below the wetsuit and you have an ankle strap on to keep it all in place.

[Fam-man]

@bananaron what @vtmecheng said above. The boa is a tightening system radar uses on bindings and gloves. It’s a thin lacing that goes to a ratchet dial for tightening.
The “standard” style is a typical lace with a toggle style keeper. 

[UWSkier]

I made the switch to RTP last year and it frustrated me to the point I haven't really enjoyed skiing as much as I was.  Prior to the switch, I was skiing the best passes of my life.  I switched to avoid needing hip surgery since double booted starts were tearing up my back hip... but I'm almost to the point of going under the knife so I can go back to double boots.  :(

 

[bananaron]

I tried a radar artp this morning and it was a disaster.Probably due to the fact it did not really fit due to the the adjusting strap was not working. It was stuck also the binding is one size fits all.I don't think that size is good for me.Will try something else.I know the ski is a lot lighter now....

[Wish]

Have not read the whole thread but the easiest way I can think of to loosen up the Wiley as much as u can. Or get an old one u may had and start loosening it. Then start cutting it down. Basically work it through modifications until it is close to a toe kick as you can get.. 

[208maverick]

Me (age 60) and my brother (58) have skied with full front and back boots for the last 30 years and both made the switch late last season (him to Wiley's RTP and me to Radar's HRT).  We both made the switch so we could go back to doing dock starts and kick into the back boot.  We're strictly open water skiers and probably aren't going to notice the subtle nuances that make the difference between getting 3 balls or 4 on a course, but both of us are pleased with our respective choices.  I personally went with the HRT because I like to have something behind my heel, and once up, I honestly don't notice the difference associated with not having a full back boot.  My HRT is a BOA adjustment, and I've found that if I'm doing a dock start, I'll shove my foot in dry on the dock and tighten the BOA to feel comfortable.  Once I take my foot out to do the dock start, I'm able to kick that back foot in relatively easy when it's wet but it's still secure enough that I don't have to adjust the BOA while skiing.  If I'm doing deepwater starts, I'll shove my foot in while in the water and crank the BOA down while getting prepped for my pull out.  Starting in the latter fashion, I'm able to get a little tighter fit on my back foot, but I'm not sure that it makes any difference in my skiing.  

I'd offer to give more feedback as the summer progresses, but my skiing plans are shot for the summer.  (Went under the knife 3 weeks ago for a "... short-and-sweet-20-minute-procedure-to-remove-a-bone-spur-in-my-shoulder-that-will-leave-me-100%-in-6-days"...) and woke up 4 hours later with a completely re-built shoulder and 6-month recovery time.)  Looking forward to 2024.  LOL.

[208maverick]

As for sizing help on the Radar HRT, I typically wear 11.0 - 11.5 and have a wide, high volume foot, and fit the STD size just fine.

[bananaron]

@208maverick Good luck with your recovery.....

[lcarnes]

I've always skied in an RTP, but it took quite a while to get the right formula. I need it to hold my foot snugly, without cutting into my ankle and without ripping in the first two weeks. The Wiley's top rubber is the best by far - but their RTP design doesn't work for my foot. So I have them make me a custom design on an HO plate (which has more cushion than the Wiley's plate) and with a shorter, curvier pattern on the top. Works great for me. 

[208maverick]

45 minutes ago, bananaron said:

@208maverick Good luck with your recovery.....

Thanks.  I tend to heal up fast from crap, doc was thrilled with how his repairs went, and things seem to be progressing nicely so far, so I'm not gonna complain.  I've got 52 straight summers of skiing the same lake, so if I have to miss one I guess it's OK.  Besides, boat driving is fun and I can talk smack all summer long w/o having to back it up for a year.

Any progress on your full boat vs rtp vs hrt dilemma?  We've got Wiley hiwrap rear boots and I think at one point decided one was too tight, called wiley's, and they sent us a larger set of wraps (basically going from L to XL wraps, or maybe XL to XXL, or something like that) to make slipping in and out easier.  It was an easy fix for us.  Anyway, I know I've got a set of wraps hanging on the wall at the lake.  It'll be 2 weeks before I head back up there, but if you're still trying to figure things out then I'll drop those in the mail to you and you can have a free pair of wraps to carve up and experiment with.

[lpskier]

@208maverick If it was your left shoulder that was repaired, I’d be cautious about driving. I injured my shoulder following rotator cuff repair turning the wheel for a 90* turn to line up for the course (our club lake has a dogleg at one end). On the other hand, if it’s your right shoulder, all the more power to you. 😉

[Jordan]

*** Take a look at most of the podium finishes on the Pro circuit. All have rear toe bindings. ***

 

More of a mixed bag. Nate uses a rear toe loop. Freddy uses a rear set-up with a heel piece. Joel Howly uses a form of a rear boot. Will Asher uses a toe slip

On the girls side, both Regina and Whitney are in double boots while Jamie Bull uses a rear toe slip.

Anyhow....I always used a rear toe slip. My son, @ballsohard, made the switch from double boots to the HRT then to a regular rear toe slip. Both Drew Ross and Matt Rini said it was the way to go.

[Stevie Boy]

Still not quite sure what to do myself, my struggles with tearing rtp rubber continues, I  have recently seen a ferry good skier using the reflex r style rear, he is one foot start and easily slips his rear foot in by not tighten the clamps, just adjusting them to the right level, he wears a rear liner.

Not as bulky as the other r stye bindings.

The only thing I  am not sure about, is the reason  people change to a rtp, is it so that they have the freedom to lift their heel or is it to allow side to side movement freeing the hips up or both ?

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Stevie Boy

[6balls]

@Stevie Boyfor me it was lifting my heel slightly on approach to buoy, though judging by the shape my foot has created in by RTP my rear foot is angled just a little as well.

  

[OldboyII]

@lpskier Steering Wheel Spinner helped me during rehab after left shoulder surgery 

Edited June 26, 2023 by OldboyII

[208maverick]

Repaired shoulder is my throttle side.  Pretty painless duty. Shoulder rehab is going exceptionally well. Labor Day skiing may not be out of the question, albeit VERY careful skiing.