Skiing without buoys is like golfing without holes

[crashman]

I'm getting smack talk from somebody (who doesn't ski a course) about the speed (32mph) and line lenght (-15) at which I ski. I like to free ski as much as the next guy for fun and to work on technique, but after I free ski I don't have a great sense of whether I've skied well or not. I'm pretty sure in open water I could ski shortline at fast speeds if I wanted but I'm not sure that would be fuel to smack talk a course skier.

Note: I do not mean to imply by this pole that freeskiing is not a worthy activity- in my view it has its merits as does hitting balls at the driving range

[Brodie]

Skiing without bouys is like golfing in the dark.......if you can't see where the ball goes, it's hard to tell if it was a good shot.

[Waternut]

I'm with @Brodie... It's more like golfing in the dark. You can make clean cuts on ski's all day long or hits golf balls all night long but without visual feedback on what's working and what isn't, it's all a waste or worse could be promoting bad muscle memory.

 

I am able to work on very specific things in open water but for me those are very basic technique issues.

[baja]

Free skiing is fun, family oriented, great exercise. So is course skiing if your whole family is into it. Free skiing is not like golfing without holes, it's more like golfing in a scramble or casual game. Good companions, some beer and laughs, and a nice day outside in the sun.

[SkiJay]

If free skiing is like hitting golf balls in the dark, I'm going to have to try hitting balls in the dark every now and then for a little pure simple enjoyment.

[harddock]

A slalom course and a boat that can hold direction and speed will humble many great skiers.

 

[bishop8950]

Free skiing is like going to the driving range. But in either case you have to know what you are working on.

[andjules]

Coincidence! My brother is just getting back to course skiing & the two of us - who did nothing but free ski for the majority of the last 20 years - haven't free ski'd at all this season. He used the exact same analogy last night, but in a positive light: sometimes you have to step back from the game & the scores, and re-cement your swing at the driving range. Too much to think about in the heat of the course.

And then we went for a great free ski.

[fu_man]

I don't think tons of free skiing has helped me make balls. It has helped me develop really bad habits that I'm trying to fix.

[SkiJay]

I think the driving range is the best analogy. I know good skiers who say they've noticed that their best tournament seasons have usually been the same years they did the most free skiing. I also think a hard core course skier free skis a lot differently than a full time free skier, again, more like going to the driving range to focus on grooving good fundamentals.

[KcSwerver]

Iv been in a course during six "sets" in my entire life running into 36 mph 15 off (boys three) my first time on the course, I ran it (28 mph) because in the seven years that iv been free skiing and only free skiing I have built my technique very well and still have tons of fun wi it while doing my best to train myself. compared to other people who grow up in the course, always being rushed or pressured to get that next ball, sometimes they may not see the fun in it.

 

Now I'm not saying that the course is bad (trust me, Im like a kid in a candy shop when I get the small opportunity to ski around some orange buoys) but I'm saying that there are still people out there who don't have the opportunities to be on the course that are still "real skiers" and shouldn't be treated as less of one because they don't have a course available

 

 

-kcswerver

[crashman]

@KcSwerver I don't mean to imply in any way that free skiiers are less of skiers- it's fun and after all that's what it's about. I'm just tired of hearing smack talk from another dude who is skiing faster and shorter than I but without balls- I want to put him on the course and tell him to teach me how it's done. I guess in the end I need to remember that my skiing is about me and not anybody else.

[KcSwerver]

Exactly! We are skiing nuts and it's our love, I have encountered people who course ski who think less of me, just because I don't have the opportunity that they do, because I don't live on a slalom lake (even though I posted a better score than one of them, when I'm a weekend only free skier, and they got to go out every day ;)

 

I think we all have somewhat the same goals, to be efficient in our skiing, safe, and look good while feeling accomplishment. Oh and the spray ;)

 

Kcswerver

[tfriess]

I do think that free skiing is very essential. If something is not working on the course, go to the (range) and work and work on your form. Its nice to get more than 6 turns before you have to stop the boat

[Nando]

The driving range analogy is a good one- I never venture into the course until I've worked my way into shape free skiing and there are a lot of things you can work on free skiing without the constraints of a course. However, it's extremely easy for a small amount of free skiing to really mess up course timing and it's awfully easy to get in the habit of skiing very narrow while free skiing. Free skiing is a tool that many serious course skiers ignore, and it can be a big help, especially if you have an extended off-season and need to work your way into shape. No question though, at least in my small mind, the only real objective measure of skiers is performance in the course.

[Nando]

Forgot to mention in my earlier post- free skiing is really fun! (Not that the course isn't, but...)

[Waternut]

Sounds like people are taking offense to the question. No need for that; it's just an opinion...

 

IMO both are fun and I don't feel any less of a man or any less serious for skiing open water. I usually free ski 2-3 times a week and get in the course once or twice a week, if I'm lucky. I voted "TRUE" because, right now, skiing in the course is improving my skill and making my free skiing more enjoyable. It sounds like those who are voting "FALSE" are saying the exact opposite in that free skiing is improving their course skiing.

[sunvalleylaw]

Depends on your goal. If skiing to you is measured only by your score, then I guess it is true for you. If your goal is to rip as well as you can, as often as you can, have fun, get good exercise, see some sights maybe other than a man made hole in the dirt (no offense to ski lakes, I love them. But I have been on much more beautiful lakes God made.), then not true.

 

BTW, I don't think golf is a good analogy. There is no "freegolfing". I think the better analogy would be snow ski (or board) racing vs. freeriding on the snow.

 

Now about that guy talking smack, he's just being a douche. Just cause he is skiing a short line freeskiing has nothing to do with what you are doing in the course or otherwise. Frankly, freeskiing, it is probably easier to be on a shorter line and faster speed. Always seemed that way to me. Frankly it is harder for me to slow it down, lengthen the line, and make it around those little balls.

 

Skiing should be about what each skier wants it to be about. No comparisons necessary.

[Taelan28]

@jfw423 I've had it go both ways. Early in the season course skiing was helping me enjoy free skiing a lot more. Now its the other way where i used free skiing as a means to improve course skiing. I warm up with a set, develope some rythm to pull harder and harder as well as get wider and wider. Running the course cold is just not possible for me, well maybe is.

 

One topic thats been slightly touched on is resources. If I miss ball two or irreparably screw up on ball one (its happened) Im out $6 on my first pass, and if I screwed up my first pass that bad I'll betcha I'll waste another $6 on the next pass, so I can end up skiing for 5 minutes, making maybe 12/24 balls, and I dont feel a workout. I dump enough money into skiing I dont need to feel like Im throwing it away.

 

Oppositely if I had a boat in my name and a girlfriend I'd be up and down that course all day after my free skiing warm up... heck if I had a boat I wouldnt be suprised if I never free skied. I think the choices some of us make are very much related to the resources we have, time, money, access, and physical ability.

 

Statements for both true and false have good arguements, everyone frames their answer differently. Bad habits in free skiing Im JUST seeing being developed and the short line will not forgive me.

 

I do screw up often and free skiing and its great to be able to reset myself within a few seconds instead of wait until the end of the pass.

 

All non prideful comments so far have been exceedingly valid.

[popof]

I personally believe (and have noticed ..) that free skiing will allow you to properly work on your technique, as long as you're doing it with someone coaching in the boat and in-between slalom sets. Actually the correct answer for me would be "Skiing the course 70% of the time and free skiing 30%". For instance I LOOOOVE finishing my early morning set with a 2 mile sheet of glass free-skiing on my way back to the dock ;). Allows you to concentrate only on your technique PLUS it's an awesome workout.

[gregy]

I've humbled a few trash talkers over the years. Take them to a course and see what happens. Free skiing great, I use it in the spring to get back in shape and work on technique, but add a course and its a different game.

[stuartmwood]

I agree it allows you to work on technique and change things that you have done wrongly for years. I ski just ahead of the course so I can keep my timing and width. Skied around the world chasing buoys and scores and killing my body. Now doing it for me!!

[cwillygood]

all i know is after skiing a course all my life, i can't freeski its soo weird to me

[Chef23]

I think the driving range is a good analogy. Hitting golf balls is fun and so is free skiing but there is no keeping score on the driving range or when you free ski.

[harddock]

If you free ski @ 22,28,or 32 off you are just skiing with a shorter rope. Your form may be great and you can have a fun day of doing it, No argument. If you ski through a course and make a complete pass you know you've earned the shorter line.

It is just a more accurate way of measuring your ability.

[MrJones]

Free skiing that mimics (and therefore helps) course skiing is a learned skill. I hated it for years, then made myself do it and thought I liked it. Just this summer I have finally been feeling that what I am doing more closely relates to the course.

[Jody_Seal]

I free ski about every other set and even try to rip as many turns and load cycles as My body will let me do in the space provided.. Better then running. I talked to some one over the weekend that free skis a lot also and he feels it enhances his technique which can then be taken back to the course. Keep in mind that their are many a slalom skier out their that has never skied out side of going around buoys, My own two children have a hard time with the idea and struggle to do so. I learned how to rip a slalom ski at age 8 on the Colorado river behind a go-fast v-drive, skied nearly 9 years before ever trying a slalom course.

[Skoot1123]

I'll make a new analogy using hockey. I may be able to stick handle and dangle like nobody's business on the ice just practicing. But until I get some defender's on me to test my skills I won't know what "skill level" I am. The buoys are the measurement stick to test us. With that being said, free skiing for two miles is absolutely awesome. Being on the river all day and skiing to my heart's content when I was younger was what I remember most about skiing. It doesn't mean non-course skier's are anything less. In fact, they probably have MORE length/time endurance than us course skier's. Never had the opportunity to hit the course till 6 years ago - now I'm addicted to the course.

[SDNAH2OSKIER]

I love to ski the course, but even given the opportunity I would still free ski half the time. To each his own, no wrong answers here.

[swc5150]

If the trash talker is the Sea Ray guy, who skis at 40mph long line, and doesn't see any difference versus course technique, then I get the analogy. From the ballet view point, I'm probably 50/50 open water / course. I can work on things in open water, and sometimes just don't have the energy to pop in the EZ Ed.

[jipster43]

I skied open water for a week and worked on the pullout and turn in for my gates like I never could have at the ski pond. At the end of the week I skied a tournament and my gates were on fire resulting in two PB's.

 

Two of the top skiers at this past weekend's tournament free ski at least 30% of the time and swear by it. I'd love to be able to do it more.

[escmanaze]

I think the driving range is the best analogy. Almost 10 years ago I was convinced that I had essentially mastered skiing and it was becoming boring, and I was ready to pretty much be done with it. Then I found the ski course, and I realized that I suck at skiing, and it completely re-ignited my love for skiing now that I have measurable results.

 

All great golfers still hit at the range sometimes to work on this or that, but in the end, what the sport is all about is what happens on the course, not the open range.

 

And yes, that guy talking trash is an idiot, just ignore him.

[Than_Bogan]

I don't know one thing about golf (except what I learned from Mark Twain), so I can't answer this poll, but I just had to comment that I find it totally bizarre that someone is trash-talking you about speed OR line length as an open water skier. What do speed or line length even mean on open water? Just turn slower and ski narrower and voila.

 

Open water skiing is great -- doesn't matter if it's all you do or if it's an occasional thing practicing a specific aspect for the slalom course. But trash talking about what you accomplish in an unconstrained, unmeasured environment is a bit out there!

 

"My imaginary rock is bigger than your imaginary rock!" -- Probably-somewhat-botched quote of one of my daughters to the other.

[sixball]

As a open water skier I would never talk about a cores skiers speed or line length. I find a cores one of the most humbling things an open water skier can do. I bet when your done you will not think you are as good as before you run a cores. I do know even open water skiing if I have skied well or not.

[RB]

I vote false.

 

Only because the analogy doesn't work.

 

Skiing without bouys, free skiing, is like golfing without keeping score.

 

This thread came at the oportune time. Until last night I would have voted yes. But, we went night golfing last night.

 

While free skiing is very much like going to the range, for a lot of people it reinforces bad habits like the range does for high handicapers.

 

Night golf will show you in an instant your swing faults.

 

There is no skiing analogy to night golf.

[auskier]

Ive been playing golf at least once a week for the last 3 months or so over winter. I can go to the range and smash balls ok... Can I break 80? Nope..

 

Can you work on things free skiing and on the range? Absolutely. But both are only practice for the real thing.

[XR6Hurricane]

I've never been on a course so I can't really comment much. But I'd think it's more like playing baseball in an empty field with bases thrown down where they look about right, instead of measuring them off. And a home run is anything past the oak tree.

 

Some of us never have the chance to get on a course...closest public one here has half of the turn balls in such shallow water that the boat can't even get to you if you fall. I've never wanted to do a faceplant in 18" of water so I've never skied it.

[Razorskier1]

Skiing without a course is useful if you use the set to focus on a skill that will help you in the course. I skied open water today because of wind. Ran 4 passes of 15-16 turns a piece. Focused on one thing -- keeping head and shoulders up and level, and pushing my hip down through the finish of the turn back to the handle. Not only did I have lots of turns to practice with, but it was a total blast! Fast, tight line, in and out, and I worked on what I wanted to which I believe will help me the next time I'm going around those little orange guys.

[xrated]

@skibrain where does a guy find that golf course? Hmmm brake slides and berms in the traps!!!!!

[Razorskier1]

Open water has helped me at just about every new line length. For example, for you shortline guys you might find that trying to ski at 35-39 off open water is really weird. At first you are too fast, slack line, etc. I find that if I can figure out the pass in the open water in terms of speed, intensity, etc, then I can do it in the course as well. It just seems to help me get comfortable with the different pace of the new line length. I told my wife when we went out today that some of my best slalom seasons we got blown out a few days a week, so I had to open water ski or nothing. This year it has been almost all course time and, while I'm skiing pretty well, I'm not at the level I was in years where I had more open water time to think about and work on a specific skill I wanted to take back into the course.

[behindpropellers]

I find that I can fix problems better with no balls. It takes the balls to show the problems though.

 

Tim

[swc5150]

On the flip side, there is the occasional baller who has no respect for the exclusive open water guy. One can become a pretty awesome skier on open water, needing just some timing adjustments to get used to the course. I've seen it happen first hand. Let's just say I ate a little crow. With that said, think that's more of an exception.