Glut of very expensive used boats

[The_MS]

Is it just me or are there way too many expensive used boats out there?

Get ready for a big crash IMO

[Dockoelboto]

as someone recently in the market for a used boat it was very difficult to find one that was reasonably priced. People want insane money for 20 year old boats. My guess is that as new boats are soo expensive that people think their used boat is worth way way way more than it normally would. I had a 95 prostar 205 I bought in 2008 for 11k. Sold it in 2014 for 10.5k, now I see that same boat listed for 15-20K in WA. crazy.

 

A crash is coming.

[bigskieridaho]

I don’t think things are going to change as long as new boats stay in the ridiculous price range. A lot of us buy boats out of state due to price or what we want, however people in states like I live in (Idaho) people don’t want to drive to get boats so they pay more money and buy them here. There is always the buyer that loves the boat and will pay the money for it not wanting to shop around.

[jepski]

The price of new boats can be close to the cost of lakefront lot, condo or home (obviously that varies bases on a lot of factors). Seems crazy to me. I recently hung out with a group of young professionals that were discussing the surf characteristics of the big three brands, and I’m thinking “you guys realize you’re talking about $150k+ boats for a “sport” that needs about 11MPH?”

MasterCraft is cutting projections/production for 2020:

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manufacturers/mastercraft-ends-year-on-high-but-pulls-back-production-for-its-three-brands

[vtmecheng]

Being in the market for a used boat, it is crazy what some 15 year old boats are going for. The closed bow and step-over bow boats can be had for $15k but going to a walk-through causes a big bump in price. I have a radius that I'm willing to go and I don't mind waiting for a good deal but can understand why someone would get frustrated and just pay the extra money on something closer and currently available. If a recession does happen in the next year, that will be the time to snag a nice used boat.

[nam1975]

I bought my 99 in 2009. Bad market at the time, but I probably wouldn’t lose a nickel if I sold it today.

 

 

[jjackkrash]

That is the way it works with these boats. The new boats get more and more expensive and the well-kept, low-hour used-boat market gets propped up. The market has acted that way for as long as I can remember, although there was a point in and around the great recession where both the new and used market took a pretty good hit.

[Clydesdale]

I’m in the market and looking for a zero off boat. Maybe it’s just me, but that seems to be a big factor between really expensive, and reasonable. Almost anything with zero off is 40k, most are 50+. Find something a year or two older w pp and it’s half the price. I’m hoping nautique 200 owners will get anxious to upgrade to the new hull and start pushing prices down. So for now I’m sticking with my old malibu....

[Dockoelboto]

I felt very lucky to get a 13 TXi with average hours and ZO for 35k. It is overall in great condition other than a few cosmetic blemishes. An 05 Lxi with low hours sold for 30K nearby. Some other guy just posted an 06 LXI for 35k. Insane prices for >10-15 year old boats.

 

Truth is that all boats are only worth what people are willing to pay. For now, people are or have been willing to pay more for local boats. If you are selling, the PNW seems to command high values for old boats. Just FYI.

[jjackkrash]

@clydesdale, I don't think it is going to work that way. I bought my 2016 new for around $60k with a 5.3l loaded and a tandem axle trailer, and, while it looks like I could still get around that (or at least close) for my boat, its tough to throw down an extra $30-40k plus 10% sales tax for the new model when my 150 hour boat is still in like new condition. And I certainly would not fire-sale my boat to upgrade (even though I do want one of the new boats). We'll see what happens when the promos come off lease, where the used prices actually settle. I am betting they start going for closer to $80k than a $100k, then we'll see where the used 200s fall in line.

[Bjkesler]

Here’s the invoice for a new nautique I bought in 1974

[Jerry44]

@Bjkesler I paid 9,000 for a new Nautique in 1980

[vtmecheng]

$9,000 in 1980 is roughly equal to $28,000 today. Think about that.

[dave2ball]

I don’t see the Nautique 200 coming down any time soon. The new Nautique promos are goin for high 90K. To the average competitor is the additional 40k or so worth it? If it is the bigger motor you looking for a repower would be cheaper.

 

[Jerry44]

@vtmecheng No question boats have outpaced inflation but it didn't just start yesterday.

 

20,000 for a 1993 Nautique

 

30,000 for a 2002 (1 year old) Nautique.

 

[bananaron]

Plenty of good buys on older and even newer boats right now.My local nautique dealer has a brand new 200 with a phoenix trailer and high end stereo for $63,000.

[nam1975]

Some people list their boats kind of high, but not outrageous, hoping someone will come along.

I know of an 09 SN 196 that’s been “for sale” for 3 years.

 

You’d be surprised what they’ll take on an offer. If it’s a broker boat on consignment, no shame with a low ball offer.

[vtmecheng]

@nam1975 to your point, there's been an 04 Response LXi with 800 hrs for sale since January at a dealer asking $23.9k. They obviously have no desire to really sell the thing.

[Tryathlete]

I tried to find a reasonably priced Ave hours Nautique 200. I gave up and bought an 08 Prostar 197TT. I saved $15-$20k. If I do upgrade it will be in 3-4 years.

[BrennanKMN]

Personally I think there are plenty of decent used tugs out there. Sure, things are more expensive than they were in the 80's, but everything is. You just cannot expect to get the last hull iteration.

 

You can get into ZO boats for under $30k easily now and if speed control isn't a huge issue you can get into boats that are on par with modern hulls for $15k.

[vtmecheng]

@BrennanKMN I agree that an early 2000's 196 can be had for around 15k with PP, seems there's little desire for closed bow on the used market. Open bow seems a bit more on the high side right now though. If I had to guess, the market is on the high side right now. Just looking history (no politics intended) we will have a recession in the next year or two. That will be the time to buy into a first boat, motorcycle, ATV, or other toy assuming you are not impacted by the downturn.

[bananaron]

@Tryathlete Not sure what you paid for the 197 however there are some nautique 200 boats priced right.

 

[aupatking]

I’ve got a “97 196 with PP stargazer that I’ll let go of for $10k. I may even sell my “02 ZO 196 too and get @bananaron to find me a good 200. ;)

There are a ton of them for sale right now. It very well may be shifting to a buyers market but, come on guys, it’s that time of year. We see this every year. Once Minnesota is closed for business, the ski boat selling market hits a big slump.

[swc5150]

I'm really curious on the resale of the new SN. Those seem to be stacking up on SIA and on dealer lots around the country.

[jjackkrash]

@swc5150, that's the big question. I really want to see where the used market shakes out on the new boats with the big engines coming off promo lease.

[BrennanKMN]

@swc5150 I am betting it will be a hard sell. That boat is a 100% dedicated 3-event towboat. 95% of buyers are weekend worriers who need a boat that can do more than just tow skiers. The ProStar, TXi and 200 accomplish this goal much better and for a fraction of the cost.

 

[Not_The_Pug]

In Fall there are always boats that people are seeing if they can sell before winter instead of storing. This spring, I was helping a local guy try and find a 200, he was looking as far as Florida since he couldn't find one nearby (that wasn't red and there were only 2 in CA). He ended up finding one in Colorado.

 

I have a 2019 SN that will be available after College Nationals.

[UWSkier]

Our lake in northern WI has a ton of direct drives on it, but nothing newer than a previous gen TXi. There's not a 200 to be seen anywhere. Handful of 197s, 206s, etc. For the family on a public lake, the new boats just aren't where it's at from a design perspective. Real users need storage space and like things like trunks, sundecks, etc.

 

The utilitarian trend started with the 200 doesn't translate well to family runabout detail. These are the buyers we need to keep the top of the market healthy. They're being turned off of DDs and are buying v-drives instead.

[swc5150]

@BrennanKMN Agreed on the utility part of the SN, I'm just curious if there are in fact used market buyers out there for them (at the substantial price)? It's likely too early to tell, but there also looks like zero movement from what I'm seeing anyway.

[epnault]

I never thought I would ever buy a new DD ski boat until the new ProStar came out. I wanted it because I like to ski the course - nothing else. The rest of the family was OK with it because it had lots of room, a tower option, front seats (w/cover), and latest creature comforts like heated seats. I think the used market is strong because as previously mentioned the new boats are pricey but also there was a huge decline in volume of DD boats built from the early 2000's till now. Maybe with all the big 3 back in the game with new hulls this has turned around but the supply/demand in the used segment still has not.

[Drew_Wright_OBXtoFl]

Growing up my dad thought skiing was a waste of time. I cond him into a new 85 HP Mercury on the family tri hull and later talked him into allowing me trade that terrible boat for the best boat I could find. At age 15 I decided one day I would own only the best. For me it's a new MC, but I could be just as happy with a Nautique or Malibu. I sale as often as I can and think the new boats are just awesome. Heck I wish I could justify owning one of each brand.

[vtmecheng]

Crazy thing is, there are 15 year old ski boats out there with asking prices of $25,000 or more. This time of year the boat either needs to be priced right or just put away for the spring. It's amazing to me that people can't figure this stuff out.

[Orlando76]

Used boats are outrageous because skiers keep buying them at outrageous prices. Everybody here complains about the cost but you guys all have brand new boats and would never consider skiing behind PP. Too slow, need more power, blah blah blah. Carburetor!!?? Blasphemy! Running -38 is fine but pumping the throttle twice in the morning is just too hard.

[vtmecheng]

@Orlando76 I'm not sure I agree with everything you say. The boat's I'm looking at have PP, or in some cases no speed control at all yet. They are still being posted for $25k. Either people are talking these boats way down or they are paying way too much. At least that's my take on things.

[tru-jack]

@vtmecheng I'm in Ontario Canada, and have a really nice 07 lxi. I can sell it inside a week at $40k Canadian which is slightly more than $30k USD. I just haven't found a replacement that is better for the $. I would have to spend $30USD or more to get new promo boat. so, I'm looking into ZO upgrade from the latest PP 9.2. Will need new ECM (currently being tested, and ZO) for about $2-3k USD. Yes, they seem expensive, but new ones are WAY more, and aside from PP / ZO they're not very different.

[lakeside7455]

I think the reality of the new run up in ski boat prices in recent years for almost all ski boats, SN $100k, MC just behind it, and Malibu right there also, is the same boats from about 2014 will retain there value better, because they ski just as good and cost much less, people won't be able to afford the newer boats and even used version of them in coming years, so there will be more value in the slightly older models that really are not much different for skiing, with ZO and hull shape pretty much equalizing to the new boat designs. So good news for older boats keeping their value, bad news for new boats keeping their overpriced value.

[Shakeski]

@lakeside7455 While I do not agree with the 100K price tag, I must say there is a BIG difference between the new MC wake, pull, and overall ski experience (room inside the boat) then that of a previous generation ski boat. Our group we ski with has boats from all eras just about and I am lucky enough to be able to ski behind a new MC next summer. The wakes behind our 2000 prostar (as well as the performance and construction of that boat were AMAZING) - but with that said, still no comparison to that of its 20 year newer self. Bottom line, folks who have the bug and want to get the right boat for them, will shell out what they feel is the right deal based on what they find. I think it was said earlier in this thread, market is what market is and (if boats are selling), folks will list at what they think they can get.

[swc5150]

It seems to me people tend to price their used boats in comparison to the retails on the new boats, perhaps without taking into consideration the considerable OTD difference on new. Walk into the CC dealership @bananaron spoke of with your checkbook, and see what that new 200 could really be purchased for. No disrespect, but that boat is already priced -$16.5k under that beautiful promo on SIA, that has 200 hours on the meter.

[6balls]

Recycled arguement. Value in used boats can't be questioned. For those buying new the depreciation has to be worth it to them and if it is, that's ok. Some depreciation is hard to avoid, massive depreciation not for me. Given I'm a used buyer, I'm glad others buy new.

I'm considering a 4 year old vehicle listed at $51K. Original sticker $126K. Still may not do it, it really doesn't do much better than what I have now, just newer and won't drip oil on my garage floor for a while. Adding oil is pretty cheap by comparison!

[vtmecheng]

Let's be realistic here. Gas prices are low and the US economy is doing OK. All it will take is a change in one or both of these two factors to drop the price of boats.

[BrennanKMN]

Things are only worth what people will pay for them, and anecdotally people are paying the price. I check SIA basically every day and the amount of boat turnover in the 1995-2010 range is incredible.

We can sit here and talk about prices all day, but money talks. Vote with your wallet has always been my motto.

[mmskiboat]

As someone that is looking to jump into our first ski boat I do find the pricing high but there is not a lot of supply compared to say wake/surf boats. I think I know all boats that are posted in North America at the moment. There are old boats that I'm not looking at and then the 03-09 and then newer boats. There are not many in the middle (14,15,16) so looking for a used boat you do not have a ton of options. Being based in Canada makes this even harder as the choice is even less. Because of this I think that the pricing will stay high for awhile anyways.

 

Still concerned that buying a high hour newer boat '17> could dump in price much more than an already older boat.

[JackQ]

I wonder if the market will support the price delta for 6.2 vice 6.0 or 5.7 in same boat. If you are not at altitude or a Open jumper, I can’t see the attraction to the 6.2. The direct injection engines are likely to require more frequent and more costly repairs and consume more fuel. I personally would prefer the 5.7 or 6.0, though the 6.0 feels smoother for some reason and spares will be more readily be available.

[SDNAH2OSKIER]

New boats are priced according to your and their ability to finance them. As long as you people keep getting 20 year notes on 100k boats and have payments of $500 for the privilege, they will keep raising the prices.

[Dacon62]

@SDNAH2OSKIER totally agree.

@JackQ currently have the 5.7 in my 17 PS. Given the option of 6.0 or 6.2 I would pick the 6.0. I think it would be the engine that would be more bullet proof and lower maintenance cost in the long run.

[jjackkrash]

I love my 5.3l GDI engine. The GDI engines have a wonderfully snappy torque curve and at least compared to my last two boats with the 5.7l engines, it sips fuel. I'd still rather have the 6.2l just because I generally like more HP for not other reason than having more HP, but the the 5.3l is more than adequate.

[braindamage]

@SDNAH2OSKIER has it, and as long as the prices for new are high, it will prop up the used market. I doubt I’ll ever sell my ‘00 SSLXi. I just don’t see anything like that anymore.

[jepski]

@SDNAH2OSKIER Exactly. Interest rates are low, lenders willing to finance 20yrs and owner mentality of trade before the warranty expires and roll the note.

[vtmecheng]

Anyone remember what happened to boat priced back in 2008?

[adkh2oskier]

my 2 cents. Just an observation. I started looking for a late model 196 w ZO back in 2015. Ended up w a beauty in 2018. 500 hrs & showroom condition. in 2015 there was an 08 196 for about 28K w about 500 hrs. To this day it is still on SIA for the same price w about 1000 hrs. Seemed high in 2015 but reasonable now for a ZO boat. But there are very few late model 196s w ZO on the market.